This may be a dumb question- I'm no engineer, but....I notice the wing attachment on the RANS S-19LS consists of only 6 bolts per side
on the forward spar, with very little penetration into the spar carry through channel. -Is this adequate? Why not bring that spar deeper into
the channel like the Vans RV-12 for more tie-in area? Just asking..
RANS S-19_LS
Moderator: drseti
Re: RANS S-19_LS
There are many different ways to hold a wing in place. A Taylorcraft uses 5 bolts total per side with one holding both struts at the bottom. A Ercoupe uses 4 bolts to hold the wing panels on, 2 of them are quite large. Steve Wittman designed racing aircraft in the 1930's that used no bolts. The wing spars had stubs that set in pockets on the fuselage and were held in place by flying wires.
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Re: RANS S-19_LS
That makes sense. Although the S19 doesn't have wing struts, all of the forces acting upon the wing attachment point would be
focussed at the wing roots , where the wings meet the fuse. Deeper penetration would not strengthen that spot on the spar.
It just seems like loading that wing would put a lot of stress on the contact points. Also, this is not RANS' first rodeo. I'm
sure that this arrangement has been tried and true for many many years now. Thanks for the reply!
focussed at the wing roots , where the wings meet the fuse. Deeper penetration would not strengthen that spot on the spar.
It just seems like loading that wing would put a lot of stress on the contact points. Also, this is not RANS' first rodeo. I'm
sure that this arrangement has been tried and true for many many years now. Thanks for the reply!
Re: RANS S-19_LS
The Ercoupe doesn't have struts either.LSA_4_Life wrote:That makes sense. Although the S19 doesn't have wing struts, all of the forces acting upon the wing attachment point would be
focussed at the wing roots , where the wings meet the fuse. Deeper penetration would not strengthen that spot on the spar.
It just seems like loading that wing would put a lot of stress on the contact points. Also, this is not RANS' first rodeo. I'm
sure that this arrangement has been tried and true for many many years now. Thanks for the reply!
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- Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:32 pm
Re: RANS S-19_LS
Im planning on building the S19. Any thoughts on the plane, that I may not have come across yet? I'd appreciate any info/ opinions, etc.
Thanx
Thanx
Re: RANS S-19_LS
Some airplanes have the wings held in place by a single bolt per side...I would not sweat it unless there have been wing failures.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Re: RANS S-19_LS
I suggest asking in RANS Clan forums. They have a bunch of builders of Venterra there.
http://www.ransclan.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?20-S-19
http://www.ransclan.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?20-S-19
- FastEddieB
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- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
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Re: RANS S-19_LS
My strutted Sky Arrow has two bolts per side, and honestly they are not all that large.MrMorden wrote:Some airplanes have the wings held in place by a single bolt per side...I would not sweat it unless there have been wing failures.
One of them:
BTW, I put in those clear plastic "ports" to better see them on preflights.
Re: RANS S-19_LS
Or the CT that uses no bolts or struts to attach the wings to the fuselage.
- FastEddieB
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- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
- Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Re: RANS S-19_LS
I should probably know this, but how DO they attach?3Dreaming wrote:Or the CT that uses no bolts or struts to attach the wings to the fuselage.
Edited to add:
"12. The wing spars are clamped by two main bolts inside the cockpit, so for ground transportation the wings can be easily detached and/or installed by two persons." (bolded mine)
Source: http://flightdesign.com/index.php?page=faq#_11
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Re: RANS S-19_LS
"I'm planning on building the S19. Any thoughts on the plane..."
Be sure to use the Search function here and dig back through prior discussions about building the kit. It has been generally recognized that building a Venterra will take a good deal longer than a comparable kit of similar design and at least equal performance - namely, the Vans RV-12. One suggestion I've heard more than once is to compare the build instructions of these two aircraft. Another 'build' consideration is how well the build process is documented and supported. When I was considering a RV-12, one of my main reasons for picking it (despite the more attractive appearance of the S19 to me) was the amazing Vans Air Force of RV-12 builders. The tightening of every bolt seemed to be discussed and photo'd there. For a first time builder, that can be not just reassuring but help move the build along at a better pace.
Be sure to use the Search function here and dig back through prior discussions about building the kit. It has been generally recognized that building a Venterra will take a good deal longer than a comparable kit of similar design and at least equal performance - namely, the Vans RV-12. One suggestion I've heard more than once is to compare the build instructions of these two aircraft. Another 'build' consideration is how well the build process is documented and supported. When I was considering a RV-12, one of my main reasons for picking it (despite the more attractive appearance of the S19 to me) was the amazing Vans Air Force of RV-12 builders. The tightening of every bolt seemed to be discussed and photo'd there. For a first time builder, that can be not just reassuring but help move the build along at a better pace.
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org
Re: RANS S-19_LS
The 2 bolts or pins that you mention hold the spars together. This is hidden by what people call the spar carry through. In reality these pins and the spars do not touch the fuselage at any point, the simply hold the 2 wing halves together. There are 2 pins on the end of each wing panel that engage the fuselage and they are what transfers the load to the wings.FastEddieB wrote:I should probably know this, but how DO they attach?3Dreaming wrote:Or the CT that uses no bolts or struts to attach the wings to the fuselage.
Edited to add:
"12. The wing spars are clamped by two main bolts inside the cockpit, so for ground transportation the wings can be easily detached and/or installed by two persons." (bolded mine)
Source: http://flightdesign.com/index.php?page=faq#_11
Re: RANS S-19_LS
The weight of the fuselage against the wings in flight helps lock the two together as well. My understanding is that the CT is designed such that it would fly normally with the spar pins removed completely, as the spars would hold in shear against each other and lock into place in the fuselage. Do not try this at home, of course...3Dreaming wrote: The 2 bolts or pins that you mention hold the spars together. This is hidden by what people call the spar carry through. In reality these pins and the spars do not touch the fuselage at any point, the simply hold the 2 wing halves together. There are 2 pins on the end of each wing panel that engage the fuselage and they are what transfers the load to the wings.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Re: RANS S-19_LS
Your understanding is incorrect. setting in the shop if you remove the pins without supporting the wing the end of the spar will go right through the top of the fuselage. By the same token under positive flight loads the spars will come through the bottom of the spar box. The spar pins do hold the 2 wing halves together so the 2 pins in the end of each wing stays engaged in the fuselage sides. The only part of the spars that are touching anything are the metal bushings that the main pins go through.MrMorden wrote:The weight of the fuselage against the wings in flight helps lock the two together as well. My understanding is that the CT is designed such that it would fly normally with the spar pins removed completely, as the spars would hold in shear against each other and lock into place in the fuselage. Do not try this at home, of course...3Dreaming wrote: The 2 bolts or pins that you mention hold the spars together. This is hidden by what people call the spar carry through. In reality these pins and the spars do not touch the fuselage at any point, the simply hold the 2 wing halves together. There are 2 pins on the end of each wing panel that engage the fuselage and they are what transfers the load to the wings.
Re: RANS S-19_LS
Wish there was a sketch (exploded view) of what you are talking about. Some of us have never seen the airplane with the wings removed. I think it would be interesting and educational.3Dreaming wrote:Your understanding is incorrect. setting in the shop if you remove the pins without supporting the wing the end of the spar will go right through the top of the fuselage. By the same token under positive flight loads the spars will come through the bottom of the spar box. The spar pins do hold the 2 wing halves together so the 2 pins in the end of each wing stays engaged in the fuselage sides. The only part of the spars that are touching anything are the metal bushings that the main pins go through.MrMorden wrote:The weight of the fuselage against the wings in flight helps lock the two together as well. My understanding is that the CT is designed such that it would fly normally with the spar pins removed completely, as the spars would hold in shear against each other and lock into place in the fuselage. Do not try this at home, of course...3Dreaming wrote: The 2 bolts or pins that you mention hold the spars together. This is hidden by what people call the spar carry through. In reality these pins and the spars do not touch the fuselage at any point, the simply hold the 2 wing halves together. There are 2 pins on the end of each wing panel that engage the fuselage and they are what transfers the load to the wings.
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator