IFR Training in a Light Sport?

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cogito
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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby cogito » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:01 am

Just to put a button on this old thread I started 3-1/2 years ago; one can do all the training and obtain an Instrument Rating in an S-LSA.
I did.

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Scooper
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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby Scooper » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:43 pm

Congratulations and thanks for the update! If the operating limitations permit it, of course you can.

To wit; excerpt from my operating limitations:
Night flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in FAR 91.205(c) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91.

Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in FAR 91.205(d) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91. All maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records and include the following items: date, work performed, and name and certificate number of person returning the aircraft to service.


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TimTaylor
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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:46 pm

You can get an instrument without ever seeing the inside of a cloud or operating under instrument flight rules.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

3Dreaming
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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:05 pm

Any SLSA built after the cut off date in 2010 can not be flown in IMC, even with a certified engine. Like Tim pointed out you don't have to actually fly in IMC to get your instrument rating. The add for the Zodiac was pre 2010.

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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby Scooper » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:04 pm

3Dreaming wrote:Any SLSA built after the cut off date in 2010 can not be flown in IMC, even with a certified engine. Like Tim pointed out you don't have to actually fly in IMC to get your instrument rating. The add for the Zodiac was pre 2010.

My operating limitations quoted above were changed in November 2016 when I changed the certification from SLSA to Experimental Operating Light Sport.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/04/17/can-you-fly-ifr-in-an-lsa/
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cogito
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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby cogito » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:20 pm

TimTaylor wrote:You can get an instrument without ever seeing the inside of a cloud or operating under instrument flight rules.

You're correct, you can get an instrument rating without seeing the inside of a cloud (IMC), but you MUST learn to operate under instrument flight rules (IFR.) That's kind of the whole point of the rating:

FAR 61.65
(d)Aeronautical experience for the instrument-airplane rating. A person who applies for an instrument-airplane rating must have logged:

(2)(ii)
Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in an airplane with an authorized instructor, that is performed under instrument flight rules, when a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, and that involves -

(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.

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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:48 pm

Of course it is. I don't know if it changed or I just forgot that the cross-country had to be on a filed IFR flight plan.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

3Dreaming
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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:44 pm

Scooper wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:Any SLSA built after the cut off date in 2010 can not be flown in IMC, even with a certified engine. Like Tim pointed out you don't have to actually fly in IMC to get your instrument rating. The add for the Zodiac was pre 2010.

My operating limitations quoted above were changed in November 2016 when I changed the certification from SLSA to Experimental Operating Light Sport.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/04/17/can-you-fly-ifr-in-an-lsa/


Not quite sure what you are saying about your operating limitations. Did your old limitations or your new limitations allow flight in IMC? Prior to 2010 it was possible to have operating limitations for a SLSA that allowed flight in IMC. After 2010 it was prohibited. Changing to ELSA would allow that option once again. I know a Flight Design CTLS that was built before 2010 that was equipped and flown IFR in IMC for training.

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Re: IFR Training in a Light Sport?

Postby Scooper » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:55 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
Scooper wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:Any SLSA built after the cut off date in 2010 can not be flown in IMC, even with a certified engine. Like Tim pointed out you don't have to actually fly in IMC to get your instrument rating. The add for the Zodiac was pre 2010.

My operating limitations quoted above were changed in November 2016 when I changed the certification from SLSA to Experimental Operating Light Sport.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/04/17/can-you-fly-ifr-in-an-lsa/


Not quite sure what you are saying about your operating limitations. Did your old limitations or your new limitations allow flight in IMC? Prior to 2010 it was possible to have operating limitations for a SLSA that allowed flight in IMC. After 2010 it was prohibited. Changing to ELSA would allow that option once again. I know a Flight Design CTLS that was built before 2010 that was equipped and flown IFR in IMC for training.


The quote in my post above is an excerpt from the operating limitations dated November 29, 2016 issued as part of my new special airworthiness certificate changing the airplane from SLSA to Airworthiness Classification "Experimental" and Category "Operating Light-Sport Prev. issued cert under 21.190." The airplane has been an ELSA since 11/29/2016.

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The original AMD SLSA operating limitations dated 04/06/2008 state:

Unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with part 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.

Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under CFR Part 91.205 must be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of CFR Part 91. Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records.
Stan Cooper (K4DRD)
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