Impossible Turn Was Impossible

[snaproll]

OK - Time for my two bits again....
This impossible turn discussion has gotten interesting… The fact of emergency turns/landing has much more to do with pilot skills and what you are flying than the hypothetical altitude for the engine failure. This forum is about light sport aircraft and the flight characteristics of light sport – that is what I am addressing – not heavy wing loading aircraft. Take your aircraft up several thousand feet, cut the throttle, establish your glide, then practice 180’s and 360’s at various bank angles noting your altitude loss for each maneuver. Go higher and practice high speed stalls to get to know the feel and recovery room needed – get to know the airplane. Lastly, develop the instinct for pushing the stick or wheel forward with the slightest sputter of the power plant. Maintaining speed is paramount, and every second of delay cost glide range.

I grew up in this business, was doing inverted flights under bridges at 16, loops, rolls, snap rolls, hammerheads, etc. When checking out or testing a new bird, I routinely put the aircraft through its paces, stalled at every possible combination of weight and balance, did multiple high speed stalls, etc. to the point of becoming intimate with the aircrafts characteristics. Unfortunately, most pilots don’t push their aircraft to the edge of the envelope and don’t thoroughly understand what the aircraft is capable of. I am not advocating everyone push the envelope, but I do recommend practicing emergency landings, understanding what the aircraft and pilot can actually do, and get an actual feel for the sink rate at various speed and bank combinations. Based on practicing emergency maneuvers, each pilot can establish their own “comfort zone” for emergency landings, establish what their safe altitude is for making turns, and gain confidence in their abilities.

And yes, I have 5 engine failure under my belt and have never scratched and airplane, two on field and three off field. And I am very sure that certain forum members will criticize what I have written – goes with the territory.

You bring another good point to the discussion. You are trained/experienced in acrobatics. Most guys are not. And to assume one can expect to make the 180 turn back at low altitudes (well below pattern altitude) is a crash waiting to happen for the average guy.. The hesitation time alone is enough to spell disaster.

I appreciate your comments. I think the point I am trying to make is pilots should practice for that one day it happens and understand what they can do and what the airplane can do. Gives a pilot more of a benchmark of when to go straight, when to turn, or when to pull the chute if equipped. I routinely climb out at 90 MPH, am at pattern altitude by the end of the runway, and have both speed and altitude to make any choice. The "change of ownership" option many times is safer if there is any question about landing safely.

[3Dreaming]

You bring another good point to the discussion. You are trained/experienced in aerobatics. Most guys are not. And to assume one can expect to make the 180 turn back at low altitudes (well below pattern altitude) is a crash waiting to happen for the average guy.. The hesitation time alone is enough to spell disaster.

Maybe, just maybe there is a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel. I don't think any of us are saying that you should be making a 180° turn back to the runway if the engine quits instead of pulling the chute. I know my thoughts are access the situation and then make a decision on what you are going to do. What is trying to be relayed is get the training, practice, and gain the experience in case you have to make that decision sometime. It is training and practice the will help keep the disaster from happening.

Also with the airplane you are talking about getting some aerobatic and upset training would not be a bad thing to have.

[snaproll]

You bring another good point to the discussion. You are trained/experienced in aerobatics. Most guys are not. And to assume one can expect to make the 180 turn back at low altitudes (well below pattern altitude) is a crash waiting to happen for the average guy.. The hesitation time alone is enough to spell disaster.

Maybe, just maybe there is a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel. I don't think any of us are saying that you should be making a 180° turn back to the runway if the engine quits instead of pulling the chute. I know my thoughts are access the situation and then make a decision on what you are going to do. What is trying to be relayed is get the training, practice, and gain the experience in case you have to make that decision sometime. It is training and practice the will help keep the disaster from happening.

Also with the airplane you are talking about getting some aerobatic and upset training would not be a bad thing to have.

Practice is the main key to handling an emergency in the air.. 99% of GA aircraft do not have chutes, hence that is not an option for most. The airport I grew up on (Flabob - RIR - EAA Chapter One) had a 500 ft. AGL pattern where most light aircraft cut power down wind, dead stick through the base and final turns, and through touchdown. Most light aircraft can make a 360 from 500 ft. with both speed and altitude to spare. It just takes practice and getting to know your aircraft. Until confident, go straight or pull the "ownership change" handle. I was 16 when I had my first engine failure and I thank my "old school" instructor for what he drilled in... I took off from Big Bear (6500 ft.), climbed to 7500 to clear the ridge, and swallowed a valve - just past the ridge. Hot day, density altitude 11000 ft. at Big Bear, and flying an experimental. Pulled up to stop wind milling, established my glide, and chose my landing spot (10 miles away - Rialto Airport). Pucker effect didn't kick in until I landed. Point is practice emergency procedures, learn your aircraft, and keep a little "Fear", it helps.