ATC authorized deviation from 30nm transponder requirement

[NJMike]

I have a Quicksilver Sport 2S without a transponder.

It is my understanding, according to FAR 91.215 (d) (3), that I may request an ATC authorized deviation from the ATC facility having jurisdiction to deviate from FAR 215.(b)(2) in order to fly within the 30nm "mode c veil" around the major airports.

If I understand FAR 91.215 (d) (3) correctly, the request must be made at least one hour before the proposed operation. I am trying to find out how to make that request.

I have submitted email requests to two ARTCC's earlier today so it will be interesting to hear their responses. Has anyone here tried to get this "authorized deviation"?

Thanks for your help,
Mike

[Jack Tyler]

Yes, I have...and it isn't a big deal. Transponders die, a/c need a way to enter/exit a Mode C veil to get back home (or to their avionics shop) and the FAA understands this. Some ATC facilities will be more flexible in arranging this than others for the simple reason that some approach facilities are far less busy than others. I think a call would be far better than email. Tracon facilities are accustomed to picking up the phone. Aviation apps like Foreflight offer you the phone numbers to call (altho' Mr. Google no doubt can find them for you, too).

[NJMike]

Jack, you gave me hope....

I talked to Potomac Tracon, who flatly refused any deviations concerning the 30nm mode C veil.

[Jack Tyler]

Ooooo...Potomac TraCon, I imagine, could be a very different animal than even the dense airspaces like Miami, Tampa and Orlando that we have here in Florida.

[NJMike]

It's not too big a deal. I may still try NY and PHL, though.

[FastEddieB]

When I converted to E-LSA, the DAR pointed out my transponder was just out of its 2-year inspection (oops!). I needed to get to Knoxville, TN, which is Class C, to get the inspection done.

I just called the tower and asked for permission, asking if they'd rather have me squawk with an out-of-inspection transponder or just check in "negative transponder - prior permission obtained", or something like that.

They responded the latter (leave the transponder off) was better, I got a name and made the flight.

May be very different in busier airspace.

[drseti]

talked to Potomac Tracon, who flatly refused any deviations concerning the 30nm mode C veil.

Mike, Potomac is a special case. While other TRACONs are governed by FAA rules, and are in the business of providing traffic separation, Potomac is governed by TSA policies, and is in the business of providing security (or the illusion thereof).

[jnmeade]

talked to Potomac Tracon, who flatly refused any deviations concerning the 30nm mode C veil.

Mike, Potomac is a special case. While other TRACONs are governed by FAA rules, and are in the business of providing traffic separation, Potomac is governed by TSA policies, and is in the business of providing security (or the illusion thereof).

Do you have some special knowledge that substantiates that statement or is that your (perhaps reasonable) assumption?

[drseti]

Do you have some special knowledge that substantiates that statement or is that your (perhaps reasonable) assumption?

No more knowledge than we all gained when we took the required DC FRZ training, Jim. That course makes it obvious that Potomac TRACON is operating under different rules from the other TRACONs.

[jnmeade]

Do you have some special knowledge that substantiates that statement or is that your (perhaps reasonable) assumption?

No more knowledge than we all gained when we took the required DC FRZ training, Jim. That course makes it obvious that Potomac TRACON is operating under different rules from the other TRACONs.

That helps explain it. For a minute, I thought you meant that TSA had assumed control of Potomoc TRACON.

[NJMike]

When I got Potomac Tracon on the phone and they heard my request, they did transfer me to some security number. And it was they who turned down the request, and that was mainly due to me wanting to pass through the area. They seemed to be more receptive if I wanted to land within the mode C veil.

[NJMike]

Philly called me back. They don't seem to have any issues with it. They just said to call them 48 hours ahead of time so they can pass the info on to everyone. No big deal.

Still waiting to hear from NY Tracon. I called them a number of times but no one every answered. Could be a bad number.

[Aerco]

Did your aircraft have a proper electrical system when it was registered? If not, you don't need to even worry about the 30 nm thing as long as you stay out of Class C. I am making sure I'll register my homebuilts without electrical systems for that reason. Around here (Southern California) that 30nm veil thing would practically ground a huge number of Cub/Champ/Taylorcraft and homebuilt types.

You still can't fly over C-class either, not unless you call them first though.

[Flim63]

Did your aircraft have a proper electrical system when it was registered? If not, you don't need to even worry about the 30 nm thing as long as you stay out of Class C.

Section 93.339 that refers to the SFRA still gives ATC permission to waive the transponder requirement. But facility management does not want a visit from DHS, TSA or Secret Service so safer to say no maybe...

[rsteele]

I've a friend that did this a few weeks ago. He bought an Ercoup and ferried it from Fredricksburg VA to Warrenton VA (KHWY) inside the mode C vale. He got permission to do so, not sure if it was the Tracon. He made sure to talk to the powers that be on an official phone line so that there would be a recording of his conversation should an issue arise.

Not all tracon air space goes to the surface, so it might be possible that, even though you are in a mode C vale, you can fly under the trancon airspace and get permission from a different entity.

Love those Ercoup's. This one has a "radio" that is just a panel mounted interface to an ICom handheld. No transponder at all.

Ron