Fly with physical logbook?

cogito · Post by **cogito** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:28 am

Fly with physical logbook?

Do you all fly/travel with your physical paper logbook, xeroxes, or an electronic logbook? I’ve heard stories of people losing their logbooks and trying desperately to re-constitute them.

Currently I’ve been flying with my actual logbook and making copies of each page as I finish them and keeping the copies in a safe.
But it would be safer to bring the copies with me and keep the logbook itself in the safe, yes?

As a sport pilot I need airspace endorsements with me as well as currency take-offs and landings. Are xeroxes of these sufficient? How about scans carried in my ipad?

I know people are using electronic logbooks in their ipad/iphones, how does this work?

Thanks for the help.
-Craig

jeepinbanditrider · Post by **jeepinbanditrider** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:21 am

Good question. I use my iPhone as a scanning device for documents I may need when on the move using a PDF program in the phone, I even keep insurance documents on my phone now instead of in my glove box. I think the best way to do it would involve NOT performing double documentation. In other words having to not only enter info into your paperlog book but also having to do it in an electronic one. Double documenting everything takes up a lot of time and if you get behind you can get all kinds of messed up.

I think a scan or copy of pages would be better in the sense that it takes a lot less time to file a scan or a copy than to re-input all the info into an electronic book, and you are more likely to do and keep up with the either thing to do. If that makes any sense.

In my job I triple document nearly everything I do and it sucks up A LOT of time. I spend more time doing paperwork on the work I do than actually performing the physical job. But so is the aviation field in Navy/Marine Corps aviation, especially in the Life Support workcenters.

As for which is better to carry with you I'd prefer to keep my logbook with me and with the scans on my phone backed up on the computer I can always build a new log book if needed or just start a new log book and use the scans as a histrical file I guess. Not sure on the legality of that though I'm fairly new to all this.

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:00 am

FAR 61.51(h)[(3) A sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights.]

I've seen discussion that imply that an "official" paper copy is needed, but I have no references for it.

I think one way might be to have a separate log in which only endorsements are made, and that log kept in the plane. (A copy, certified if one is paranoid, could be kept in a separate location.)

Is it certain that log book endorsements of currency are needed on hand for sport pilots to to carry passengers? It's not the case with other pilot ratings.

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:34 am

jnmeade wrote:Is it certain that log book endorsements of currency are needed on hand for sport pilots to to carry passengers?

I don't believe that's the kind of endorsement the FAR was intended to address. Sport Pilot is the only rating for which aircraft category and class are not specified on the pilot certificate. These are authorized by logbook endorsement, so carrying the logbook (or other endorsement documentation) is how Sport Pilots can prove category/class privileges when ramp checked. Also, other pilot certificates do not carry airspace restrictions. Sport Pilots can only operate in Class D, C, and B airspace if so endorsed, so the endorsement record in your logbook (or other record) is how you prove that you are allowed in such airspace. It's not about currency, but rather endorsements.

BTW, higher-rated pilots operating as sport pilots (that is, for example, Private or above with lapsed medicals) are exempted from the logbook-in-possession rule, because (1) their airman certificates specify category and class, and (2) their training included airspace checkout that might be absent for Sport Pilots.

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:50 am

drseti wrote:
jnmeade wrote:Is it certain that log book endorsements of currency are needed on hand for sport pilots to to carry passengers?
I don't believe that's the kind of endorsement the FAR was intended to address.

I agree with you. I don't need to carry the log book, but if I did, I would carry a special log that had only necessary endorsements - nothing else.

If a person is ramp checked and asked for the log, one must produce it. No need to give an inspector written evidence that they might use to violate you. Better to produce any requested information and only that information by copying the pertinent portion of the logbook.

ArionAv8or · Post by **ArionAv8or** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:24 am

I believe that carrying passengers is not an endorsement, but rather a currency issue. You must have made 3 full stop landings in the past 90 days to have currency for carrying passengers.

As for carrying logbook or copies, I always carry my actual logbook with me. I use MyFlightbook.com on my Iphone and Ipad for all my flight records and I have copies of all my endorsements in the safe. In the event I ever lost my logbook it would be very easy to re-create a new one. MyFlightBook even allows me to make notes and documentation that I have duplicated from my logbook. The two are a mirror image of each other and I can pull my currency right from my phone or Ipad.

drseti · Post by **drseti** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:36 am

ArionAv8or wrote:The two are a mirror image of each other

Proving once again that redundancy is two of the most important aspects of flight!

jnmeade · Post by **jnmeade** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:26 pm

ArionAv8or wrote:I believe that carrying passengers is not an endorsement, but rather a currency issue. You must have made 3 full stop landings in the past 90 days to have currency for carrying passengers.

I agree. And you don't need to carry proof with you that you are current. you can produce it later on request. None of us ever carried our logbooks when we flew charter. Why would we?