Does LSA really make flying cheaper?

zdc · Post by **zdc** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:03 pm

Jim Stewart wrote:Not to mention the cost of certificated avionics. Try comparing the cost of a Dynon D100/D120 in an LSA vs whatever equivalent certificated glass panel instruments.

For some Sport planes it is actually cheaper to order glass panels than "steam gauges" because there is less labor used for installation.

Rtrhead · Post by **Rtrhead** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:39 am

zdc wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:Not to mention the cost of certificated avionics. Try comparing the cost of a Dynon D100/D120 in an LSA vs whatever equivalent certificated glass panel instruments.
For some Sport planes it is actually cheaper to order glass panels than "steam gauges" because there is less labor used for installation.

Gobosh has a 700X with a Dynon display for much less than with the conventional steam gauges; they attribute this to the fact that they use fully certified electric "six-pack" gauges. No way glass panel Part 23 ships are going to be less than their steam-gauge versions though :-/

frfly172 · Post by **frfly172** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:32 pm

The market for lsa is like the ga market the product will drive the price.The lsa holds a place in the market for a large group of pilots and student pilots.The price will probably come down with more competition and more used models available.The lsa market does not have the ability to deal in most trades of ga aircraft at this time.this will also probably change as dealers get more product and stability.Just my thoughts.

sethdallob · Post by **sethdallob** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:16 am

The sport pilot certificate was appealing to me, and as a non-pilot, the idea of flying in a relatively simple plane manufactured this century for a somewhat affordable price was also appealing. I know with a relatively new plane that the chances of having an "oops - yeah, you need $15000 worth of new XYZ" moment are very low in the near future.

The real problem attracting new pilots is the media - aviation is portrayed as a rich-man's play toy....and every night there isn't a brush fire, the news feels compelled to show the plane crash of the day. Combine that with a society that's basically scared of the world and you have a recipe for disaster.

Doss79 · Post by **Doss79** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:46 pm

rfane wrote:KSCD is correct. LSA was not approved by the FAA to bring the cost of flying down. It was to bring all of the fat ultralights, and their pilots, under regulation. Period. What makes you think that the FAA cares how much a plane costs, or how much it costs to get earn a Pilot's Cert.?

I think they need to care because have you seen the rate of new pilots each year? The number of active pilots are also decreasing at an alarming rate.

Who pays for the aviation services once the pilots are all gone?

garyo1939 · Post by **garyo1939** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:27 pm

I think they need to care because have you seen the rate of new pilots each year? The number of active pilots are also decreasing at an alarming rate.

Who pays for the aviation services once the pilots are all gone?[/quote]

This is just a opinion of mine, but I think that the last of the WWII and later flyers are the ones who have kept the market alive. As they disappear that loss is not replaced. For the prices of ownership and regulations every which way you turn and the media bias, it seems to be hard to even keep an airport open anymore. I think as the miltary pilots depart the area, so will the participation of the recreational GA/SP pilots, if for no other reason than. Seems to me the new 10 minute thrill seekers of today will be satified with a introduction flight and go on about their lives.

I would hope I am wrong, of course, and probably am. But I think dads who flew got the kids interested also. Those dads are disapearing faster than the airports they used to fly from.

What do you think is the decline in interest in aircraft these days?

frfly172 · Post by **frfly172** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:57 am

I think the pilot base may turn around because of LSA the entry fee is much lower compared to the cost of the PPL certificate.Instead of complaining of the lack of interest we all need to push aviation at every opportunity to get the base up.All pilots have to be pro active if we are to survive.The lsa can now be the first step towards an aviation career.

sethdallob · Post by **sethdallob** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:52 pm

garyo1939 wrote: What do you think is the decline in interest in aircraft these days?

People are scared of living. I can't get several of my co-workers to go flying. They'd sooner get shot in the face than take their chances in the air. I think it's a combination of a fear-based society and poor science education.

KSCessnaDriver · Post by **KSCessnaDriver** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:04 pm

sethdallob wrote: People are scared of living. I can't get several of my co-workers to go flying. They'd sooner get shot in the face than take their chances in the air. I think it's a combination of a fear-based society and poor science education.

I'll agree with that, entirely. I'm a college student, and typical college students really do some crazy/stupid things. I've got friends who say "sure, I'll go". The minute you give them a time to show up at the airport, they ALWAYS have some excuse.

rsteele · Post by **rsteele** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:49 pm

I wonder if part of the problem is that people are just as afraid of airports as of flying. As a society we are being taught that airports are fearful places; fear of harassment by officials and fear of evil people being around to steal your luggage, etc.

Maybe a staged approach to getting friends flying would help. Get them to AP first, let them see what a GA airport is all about. Them maybe you could get them into a plane.

Ron

KSCessnaDriver · Post by **KSCessnaDriver** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:54 pm

rsteele wrote:I wonder if part of the problem is that people are just as afraid of airports as of flying. As a society we are being taught that airports are fearful places; fear of harassment by officials and fear of evil people being around to steal your luggage, etc.

Doubt it. Lots and lots of people go to airshows, yet probably would never step foot in something that doesn't burn Jet A and seat at least 30 or more people. Something about a small plane equates danger in the general public's mentality. I'm not sure there is much that could be done about the mentality, other than spending massive amounts of money on a public relations campaign.

ibgarrett · Post by **ibgarrett** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:44 pm

I would agree. I only started flying a year ago, but I can't tell you how many people think the small airplanes are unsafe. Fortunately I can provide enough information to folks that it opens their eyes up to what the realities are. I think a big chunk of the problem is with the media itself. They always seem to gravitate towards a plane crash - and the smaller ones seem to get a lot of, well, "air time"....

sethdallob · Post by **sethdallob** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am

In terms of PR, I think the "Young Eagles" program is ridiculously poorly run. No significant outreach, and the celebrity that's supposed to attract all of these young people to flying - Harrison Ford?? Really?? One would have thought they would have gone on a massive PR blitz around the Amelia movie. Even the EAA doesn't seem to care too much.

All it takes is some free flights tied in with the AP Physics class at a local high school with some aerodynamics curriculum and your all set. Think of flying as the ultimate science experiment and the safer alternative to football for geeks.

Doss79 · Post by **Doss79** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:51 pm

The decline in interest is due to the cost of learning to fly, fuel, insurance, etc...you name it!

Even the old timers shake their head these days.

ibgarrett · Post by **ibgarrett** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:59 pm

Yeah - no matter how you slice it, it is expensive. Our LSA Club just had to raise their rates, and they run a very lean operation. I feel very fortunate to be able to pay as I go, but it's not terribly easy to do for most folks. This after all, is a recreational activity for most.