Passenger Jet Crosswind Landing O'Hare Thursday

[CTLSi]

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[mcurcio1989]

Perhaps it is camera angle (which is odd as the runway looks like its about 1000 feet long) but it seems like he never straightened out the crab before touching down. The whole time I was watching it waiting for him to straighten out but it didn't look like he ever did. After the first wheel touched it looked like he straightened out some but the swerve to the right of the runway seemed to indicate that he never fully did. What am I missing?

Something tells me this guy isn't a tailwheel pilot

[designrs]

Holy s***!!! It must happen all the time, but it's hard to believe that the planes can take that!

There must be a lot of pressure on those pilots to put the plane down.
Of course the pilot always has a right to a go-around but I'm sure frequent go-arounds are frowned upon in commercial transportation, especially with the low fuel reserves that are used today.

[MrMorden]

Perhaps it is camera angle (which is odd as the runway looks like its about 1000 feet long) but it seems like he never straightened out the crab before touching down. The whole time I was watching it waiting for him to straighten out but it didn't look like he ever did. After the first wheel touched it looked like he straightened out some but the swerve to the right of the runway seemed to indicate that he never fully did. What am I missing?

Something tells me this guy isn't a tailwheel pilot

Some large airplanes are designed to land in a crab for crosswinds. The B-52 does this, and I think some larger airliners do as well. It's easier on passengers to stay level all the way down than to drop a wing.

Even the little Ercoupe, which does not have rudder pedals, is meant to land in a crab. In fact the Ercoupe is renowned as a great crosswind plane, because it's not limited in crosswinds by rudder authority. I have seen videos of Ercoupes touching down crabbed in 25-30kt crosswinds...it's impressive (even if it looks just plain wrong!).

[designrs]

Either someone had a very bad day, or that was not a very experienced pilot.

There was a great blog by an airline pilot. I think it was "Captain Dave".
Fantastic anonymous blog about what really goes on in the cockpit.
He finally had to pull the blog. It was a great eye opener whie it lasted.

Most interesting was his constant talk about energy management in an Airbus and being able to fly the plane both within and outside if the electronic control envalope. Some approaches requested at major airports are not physically possible within the limit modes. He always sad, "understand what the automation is trying to do and manage it accordingly".

One time he let a new first officer who was clearly behind the plane attempt to land at Philly...
evidently a safe learning experience given conditions. He let it go as far as he could and then commanded "Go Around"... the first offer's reply, "Now?"
"YES, NOW!!"

[mcurcio1989]

Some large airplanes are designed to land in a crab for crosswinds. The B-52 does this, and I think some larger airliners do as well. It's easier on passengers to stay level all the way down than to drop a wing.

Even the little Ercoupe, which does not have rudder pedals, is meant to land in a crab. In fact the Ercoupe is renowned as a great crosswind plane, because it's not limited in crosswinds by rudder authority. I have seen videos of Ercoupes touching down crabbed in 25-30kt crosswinds...it's impressive (even if it looks just plain wrong!).

Thanks, That is interesting. I never knew that. I googled it a bit though and it sounds like the B52 gear is actually castered to align with the runway. However it does not sound like there are any commercial airliners that have this capability (while some can only during taxi for improved maneuverability). http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... in/334930/

That said are you saying that their gear and tires are designed to handle additional forces from a crosswind landing? It seems like either way tire wear would be excessive.

That is crazy about the ercoupe I always wondered how that thing managed a cross wind. Very curious as to what that would be like.

[mcurcio1989]

This got me to watch other big jet crosswinds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POu1e71OlMo and I don't want to be come off as a know it all barely sport pilot but I think a lot of these are just really shitty landings. The first guy had kind of an interesting approach as he crabbed it in with the wing slightly low and then when the first wheel touch he rotated and used that wheel to kind of hold his heading. The guy at about 50 sec is just plain old god awful. The way he put that wing up into the wind had me sitting on the edge of my chair screaming. The 747 at 2 min looks to execute a near perfect landing aside from being slightly to the right and I am assuming he was well aware of where that engine was. Point is I'm under the impression most of these guys were just screwing up.

We have a student in our club who is a captain on a 777 for a major airline and he has been learning to fly our clubs pietenpol as he admittedly has forgotten how to actually fly an airplane. No joke. My instructor commented that while he was progressing quickly and mostly just brushing up, he was having a hard time dealing with crosswinds and getting the airplane straight on landing. The point is that it isn't hogwash to say that there are commercial pilots out there who really aren't proficient in executing cross wind landings.

[SportPilot]

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[CTLSi]

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[CharlieTango]

There are two textbook ways to land in a strong cross-wind. There are guys that will argue that one or the other is 'correct' but either or both are fine...The basic premise being 'whatever it takes.'

Some even use both, crab down close, then cross-control and tilt the upwind wing low and land on one wheel while pushing rudder to point the nose straight just before touchdown.

Some crab all the way in, and just before touching the mains rudder the nose straight or touchdown slightly side-loaded as the commercial guy did.

Some slip all the way in and land on one or both dependent on gust and strength of xwind component.

Some chicken out and land somewhere else...

There are 2 ways to land in a cross wind, as I see things.


Note both methods assuming you are tracking the centerline.

1) Touchdown without alignment and side load the gear. Airliners do this due to their low wings and nacelles.
2) Touchdown with alignment. You can side slip or crab and transition.

My CTSW is a high wing and it is easy to touchdown aligned.

[SportPilot]

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[hirschr]

Landing an Ercoupe in a cross wind does take a little getting use to. The first time I did I thought for sure I was gonna shoot off the runway, but it just aligns with the runway, as the gear touches the pavement. It does give kind of an odd twisting jerk in the cockpit, and it is best to have a loose grip on the wheel to let it self correct. Found the below tidbit from this site: http://eaa231.org/Museum/Ercoupe/Ercoupe.htm

"Landing a 2-control 'Coupe is an "interesting" experience!! You crab it into the wind and land that way!! The nose wheel will caster and straighten out ON THE RUNWAY. The Ercoupe's gear does not swivel, a common misconception, but the geometry causes the airplane to turn in the direction of forward motion. If you fight this tendency you can ground loop.

One historical fact: all original Boeing 707 pilots were taught to land in the Ercoupe. The 707 had a similar problem - the low hanging engines meant that you couldn't drop a wing into a crosswind - you had to land them crabbed!!"