Going Places (or not)

[designrs]

As a new pilot and plane owner, it has become apparent how hard it is to actually GO SOMEPLACE.
VFR conditions are not easy to come by.

Day trips (out and back the same day) with options to divert seem to make the most sense,
as it is easier to predict weather conditions and make changes as needed as the day unfolds.

At around 100 kts cruise there is a limit on how far you can fly round-trip in a single day.
This is great for "flying days" but does not allow too much ground time to explore areas.

Here are the types of trips that I have been doing:

1) GOING AROUND THE BLOCK: The half hour to 1.5 hour hops around the local area.
Very rewarding. Available last-minute. Weather is pretty much 100% given.
Can go with lower minimums, staying low and close to home for a quick return.

2) SHORT DAY-TRIPPING: No more than 1.5 hours one-way. Gives a few hours on the ground someplace leaving time for return trip. Still you are not going much farther than the FBO. Even then, with personal flexibility to pick a good day you still might come upon marginal VFR conditions.

3) LONGER DAY-TRIPPING: 2.5 to 3 hours one way. Mostly about the flight itself. Best over scenic areas. Not much time on the ground. Some risk of getting weather'd in.

4) OVERNIGHT(s): The weather is known to get there. A wether trend can be seen for subsequent days… but you really don't know for sure how long you could be stuck there! Meanwhile you are paying rent-a-car and hotel. So your $150 night could turn into $600 in travel expenses. Plus the rest of your life is on hold until you finally get out of there!

5) PERSONAL APPOINTMENTS: It would be great to use an aircraft for personal appointments in another state. Say a doctor's appointment or something of that nature. Appointments like that requires scheduling a week or two in advance. Absolutely NO WAY of knowing if you are going to be able to get there!! Thus you either:

a) Depend on less desirable forms of transportation… very long drives.
b) Tell your parties that you fly in and need flexible arrangements (last-minute or allowing for same-day cancellation.)

… now it's very possible that you can't get back before dark so plan an overnight and see # 4 above.

It's not easy to actually GO PLACES!!
It would be great to hear comments on others as to what are the most satisfying flights and how they are coordinated.

[Merlinspop]

Agreed. Day VFR in a plane no faster than 120 kts is very limiting. Maybe not so much in the dry Southwest, but in the soggy Northeast, absolutely. LSAs aren't meant to be "transportation" vehicles. If it works out as such from time to time, great. But really they're "recreation" vehicles.

"Got time (and $) to spare? Go by air (LSA)."

[dstclair]

Posted this awhile ago but seems appropriate.

The key through this thread is flexibility when traveling longer distances VFR, regardless of the class of aircraft. But that's also part of the enjoyment -- the trip itself is part of your vacation. If you want a small aircraft to be just another form of transportation, then go for your instrument ticket and fly high-end complex aircraft. This has limits as well but that discussion is for another forum.
.......

Had this very thing happen on my TN trip a couple weeks back. Direct route to Memphis took me through the thick of the front (heavy rain, embedded t-storms, MVFR and lower). East-south-east route followed by a nearly due north turn would keep me in good weather but clouds would linger for the first 150nm or so. Forecast said they'd raise to 1500' by 10am and continue to be even better through-out the day. The other side was 8k or better. 10am comes and goes with too much of the route at 1000'. Things started clearing fast locally and the middle finally got to acceptable levels by noon.

Original plan called for two days in Memphis, which we changed to 3 once the front we flew around hit us 1.5 days later. Then we chased/waited out the same front going to Nashville.

Had a great trip but ended up changing the route and our order of destinations due to various weather occurrences. Stay flexible and you'll have a great time!

This doesn't apply to SP and (most S-LSAs) but if you really want to fly yourself and keep to a schedule then you need to get your instrument ticket. This doesn't guarantee you'll do your trips as scheduled but does expand the weather conditions you can fly. Proficiency is tough to maintain for those of us with day jobs, though.

[CTLSi]

......

[drseti]

I have made a half dozen VFR trips between Northern CA and Las Vegas, and back without issue. <snip> You don't need to deal with IMC to do that

That was true for me too, when I lived in San Jose. Flew all over the West for decades, always in VMC, no issues. Not so true in the Northeast, where Richard and I now live.

[designrs]

Yeah but in the desert climates aren't you pretty much limited to flying early in the morning?
Yet, I guess the good news is that it can be VFR almost every morning!

[Merlinspop]

I am a PP and own a Flight Design CTLSi - SLSA. I have made a half dozen VFR trips between Northern CA and Las Vegas, and back without issue. Over 380nm one way. At 120kts GS the trip takes about 3hrs 30mins.

You don't need to deal with IMC to do that nor do you need a much faster plane unless you wanna get there half an hour sooner.

The only real consideration is pee breaks, and wind. If you get a tail wind, you go faster, if you get a headwind, slower. And bring a porta-john and have an auto-pilot so you can release control to take your pee break.

Shorter trips are easily possible and I do them all the time. 200nm one way is about max for a round tripper in a single day. True you only get an hour at the destination on those...

As I said... Easier to do out West the in the East.

Annual days of sunshine
Place SunnyDays Partly SunnyDays Total Days With Sun
Albany 69 111 180
Binghamton 52 102 154
Buffalo 54 103 157
Rochester 61 104 165
Syracuse 63 98 161
Las Vegas 210 82 292
Reno 158 93 251
Redding 172 77 249
Sacramento 188 77 265
Bishop 201 89 290
Fresno 194 73 267

"With Sun" does not necessarily equate to VMC and the lack of sun doesn't totally equate with IMC, but it does give a comparison.

[edit: sorry for the formatting; the table didn't convey over]

[dstclair]

Location, location, location......

Flew all over the South Central with one way distances of up to 800nm and rarely needed my instrument ticket. Moved to the eastern seaboard and seemed to almost ALWAYS use the ticket on long trips at least to cut through a thin layer. Moved back to the heart of Texas and usually can find a safe VFR route for long trips without too much delay.

[MrMorden]

Desert has a more conducive climate to VFR distance flying than most places. You might have to leave early, but pop-up thunderstorms, view-limiting haze, and morning fog/mist are not high on your concern list.

Here in the Southeast, I would say that planning a trip more than 150 miles from your home field, you should at least have a contingency plan for parking the airplane overnight. My 500 mile trip to Sebring ended up going fine getting down there, but getting home took waiting a couple of days and a couple of hours of weather delay in Titusville.

So based on that, in this region, for planning longer VFR flights it's about 50/50 that it will go as planned for me.

Day trips are easier if you keep an eye on the sky, but I took one trip up to a field just 25 miles from my home field and had to divert coming home as a big thunderstorm parked itself right over home base and didn't want to budge. We got in late that afternoon, but just barely through a gap in the building weather. That one gave Flocker some trouble too as I recall.

[FastEddieB]

I think the key to longer trips is "networking".

For example, when you join the BMW MOA group, you get a copy of their "Anonymous" book:



Club members anonymously say what services they can provide for other members.

My entry is the second here for my tiny town of Mineral Bluff, GA (first phone number obscured):



And what the codes represent:



We could easily do something similar, though not necessarily anonymous.

For instance, if anyone found the weather or mechanical issues a problem and found themselves in the southern Appalachians, I could easily put them up, possibly provide hangar space, even have tools and ethanol-free mogas available.

Similarly, I know fellow Sport Pilots and Cirrus owners and other pilots and friends that would do the same for me.

Maybe someone with programming skills could collect info from forum members about what they could offer. Maybe even come up with a map. I do not have those skills, but would be happy to help in any way I could.

Just a thought.

[Flocker]

That one gave Flocker some trouble too as I recall.

You are correct. Spent 5 hours waiting out the Wx.

[designrs]

We could easily do something similar, though not necessarily anonymous.

I'd volunteer to help produce something like that.
We really have a super community here on SportPilot talk.
Even just our very active members would represent a nice community throughout the USA.

We could do a free online map like I did on Zee maps.
There is also a place to note contact information.
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1125317

Tag Color Codes:
Yellow: MOGAS stop
White: Restaurant on field
Bright Green: Friend
Dark Green: Sightseeing
Magenta: Non-towered airports of interest
Cyan: Towered airports of interest

Of course our community map could be color coded differently as appropriate.

[FastEddieB]

That's cool!

I could offer (at Copperhill, TN - 1A3):

Overnight lodging or camping.
Ethanol-Free 93 octane mogas.
100LL Avgas.
Loaner car.
Safety Pilot.
Tools.
Overnight tiedown.
Hangar space (as available).

Maybe come up with an online form with check boxes?

Does this deserve its own thread?

[designrs]

Yes. It needs it's own thread.
I don't see an appropriate category.
Also it should be some place thats easy to find… like "THE DIRECTORY" or something like that.

Paul what you recommend as a location to post the:
"Member Resources Directory":
Going places? Need a place to stay? Destination recommendations? Help while on cross-country? Other services? Start right here. Many of our members are here to help.

Members could also list their professional "for fee" services (mechanic, flight instructor, etc.).

[designrs]

Stuck in New Jersey.
Yet another confirmation on how hard it is to actually go someplace VFR within wind limits.

Basically even a 1.5 hour trip is usually fraught with challenges.
If you hit the "weather lottery" you have perfect conditions for your flight round trip.
If you just "get lucky" you get safe but marginal conditions.

Sure, check the weather. Check the TAF. Check all available information.
That perfect day or near perfect day will probably still bring you marginal conditions at some point.

Decide to "go take a look" at marginal weather with alternates?
Then it really gets difficult.

Oh and tomorrow might be better?
Catch that early morning flight before the winds pick up?
(Just for my little 1.5 hour hop.)
TAF at my destination at 9 AM... winds 20 to 30!!

So it's two nights in the hotel.
$$$ and I'm not having fun in the Bahamas.
Do I still have to "hope" for good weather the day after tomorrow?
Aircraft very nicely accommodated at the airport (couldn't ask for better) but there are risks that I don't have at home in my own hangar.

Small planes just ain't transportation.
Experience will help, but I'm really thinking that I'm happier "once around the patch" near home on nice days.