Sport Pilot Talk

CTLS Thoughts and Venting

artp — Sat May 10, 2008 1:15 pm

Author: artp

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:15 pm

CharlieTango wrote:

i was confused re service center vs dealer.

why not call you service center, rather than wait for them to call you. be cordial and remind them that you are waiting for a call, and per tom p you have expectations of a better service relationship?

It was the dealer that Tom said would call. The only complaint I have against my service center is that they have more work then they can handle.

Quote:

you have admitted that your thermostat works, ( not correct temps ) and yet you say it doesn't. tp says it works with a limitation of 25f and then needs some tape, yet you make it a "he says it does, they say it doesn't" argument.

you do need to get your temps in the correct range.

The other day it was 80 degrees and the oil temperature did not get over 170. I said the thermostatic function works but it is either the wrong thermostat or the design of the cooling systems puts the thermostat in the wrong place or with the wrong oil flow.

Quote:

if i was in your shoes i would find an a&p from my local field and get him to do things like oil changes as well as maintenance issues that are not being conveniently handled by the service center.

Years ago I used to take my cars to Jiffy Lube for oil changes (very convenient and no appointment required). One time they stripped the threads on my oil pan (they claimed the oil pan on my 2 year old car must have worn out). It cost me $350 to get it fixed. Ever since then I have taken my car to an authorized service center and ever since then I have had no further problems. I certainly don't intend to take my plane to some local shop in the hope they might know enough about my Rotax engine, my composite body, and my specialized parts requirements to properly fix my plane. When I lost the oil in the car it was major inconvenience but in a plane it could be fatal.

In any case, taking my plane to a local shop won't get my thermostat working. All they could possibly do is replace it with another of the same make and model. Since my service center is also an assembly point for CTs being imported into the US, I have to assume they have had enough experience with the CT and its systems to know when replacing the thermostat would not fix the problem.

I paid $30,000 for my current car and if I have a problem I can take to any authorized service center and have it fixed. I don't have to start 4 way negotiations between the manufacturer, the service center, the parts suppliers, and myself. I paid a lot more for my plane I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to get it fixed at an authorized service center.

I bought my plane because I thought it might be fun, I did not buy it with the intention of starting a new career in LSA maintenance. Nor did I buy it with the expectation of having to travel across the country to get suggestions on how to get Flight Design to honor my warranty. While the gathering of the CT group might be a bunch of fun guys who I would enjoy meeting, I don't see the CT as a way of life. I am not looking for new friends and new places to visit especially if I have to fly commercial airlines to get there. I am happy with my current life I was just hoping to be able to spend a few hours a month flying in a relatively reliable and trouble free new plane.

Flight Design forum - bias

CharlieTango — Sat May 10, 2008 10:15 am

Author: CharlieTango

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:15 am

the flight design discussions on this board have recently evolved. the portion of discussion here that, in my opinion is unfair bashing now includes the ct forum, which is a pilot/owner run forum, not flight design's.

1st art and fans are saying that no negative posts are permitted. not true at all. i publicly advised a member to fly the new ctls before he decides to buy one, i said i was skeptical about its handling. a plane that is designed for american lsa pilots ( easy to fly and land ) might not be as fun to fly.

every negative aspect of the ct is discussed by the members but we are labeled mac using kool aid drinkers.

the forum wants to be ct specific and doesn't want discussion about other designs, that is different than a bias, it is simply a rule.

the forum doesn't want the bashing, especially when it doesn't seem grounded in reality. artp's bashing didn't start with flight design, same behavior existed when he was a cirrus owner. he's had years of practice and is quite good at it. i find it interesting that he bought his ct from the cirrus dealer and now his complaints are all about dealer service. what's that about?

i've owned home builts, cessna, piper, mooney and flight design. i'm not and never was a big cessna or piper fan but when a design fits me well like mooney or flight design i stick with it.

pilot john's approach was interesting. he posted a long, not permitted evaluation of many designs. it was a fair post, a bit off on his flight design evaluation based on a 30 min ride in turbulent conditions at least he was being honest. the post didn't fit the rule and had an in your face flavor to it.

this forum is more appropriate for such a comparison but pj, didn't just post his report here he used it to call us names and bash our forum. in the end pj's report was ignored and the subject was about us sheep. silly.

so why do we come across as kook aid drinkers? i think it is because there are a few voices that are giving the wrong impression and a few voices responding. the responses are saying, wait a minute, i've got a ct, had it for years, hundreds of hours, and your reports just don't jive with what i know. i contend that a seemingly unfair comment countered by someone proud of their aircraft is to be expected and doesn't really deserve the name calling.

i have asked that art not put words in my mouth about 50 times by now. one common approach in this bashing is to build straw men and knock them down, much like saying negative posts aren't permitted.

i'm not trying to make ct fans out of anyone, i am trying to keep some balance and counter negative rhetoric when it seems unfounded.

Falcon?

Dougoutfl — Thu May 08, 2008 6:58 pm

Author: Dougoutfl

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:58 pm

Ken,

Try the link below. I think it is what you are looking for. I was impressed.

http://tandtaviation.com/

Didn't make my first flight tonight.

artp — Wed May 07, 2008 1:06 pm

Author: artp

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:06 pm

I went for my service appointment today.

I now have a working landing light , CHT probe, and door struts that keep the doors open.

Today the temperature hit 80+ so I removed tape from the radiator because I was worried it might overheat. I could have saved the time. I have now flown in temperatures from the 20�s to the 80�s, with and without aluminum tape and the oil temperature stays in the 150 to 170 degree range. It is clear that the thermostat works, it is just the wrong one for this plane. Rotax calls for a normal operating range from 190 to 230.

zlin crash

Cub flyer — Wed May 07, 2008 12:41 pm

Author: Cub flyer

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:41 pm

Another example of flutter resistance with proper control surface shape.

My 1961 Piper Apache has a very large rudder with rudder trim tab and actuator.

No aerodynamic balance, centering springs or balance weights. Just a straight hinge line. cable controls.

Redline is 227 MPH. fastest I have gone is 190 mph in a dive. steady as a rock.

How Long Have You Left Your Plane In A Hangar

Cub flyer — Wed May 07, 2008 12:25 pm

Author: Cub flyer

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:25 pm

I would fill tires with nitrogen. (less likely to go flat) or if you can block the axles up so the tires are off the ground.

Depending on what climate your in and how your hangar is constructed you could do some different things.

If there are a lot of birds in your hangar. Wax with turtle wax but don't buff it off until after your trip. Then wash and buff.

plug all openings. I have seen people make rings of sheet metal to put around all three wheels to keep rodents out. Depends on your type of airplane.

Before leaving, fly the airplane and change the oil. Drain fuel from system and carb bowls/ gascolator if you use auto fuel.

Then put it away.

The cylinders with an open valve will be the one that might start corrosion. You could remove plugs and spray a fogging oil in the cylinders.

Remove battery and store somewhere above freezing and with constant temperature off a cement floor.

That's the main stuff. outside storage is a whole other set of problems.

Van's RV-12 LSA is now available! I Bought One!

JerryG — Tue May 06, 2008 7:23 pm

Author: JerryG

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:23 pm

You're right. An E-LSA can be built buy another party up to 80-90-100% and it has to be certified as S-LSA at the source (the factory RV-12) ... my understanding is Van's RV-12 received that certification within the last couple of days. As usual Van does everything without a lot of fanfare. Just the way his company operates, I guess. No mention of this on his web site even.

Due to the FAA's moratorium of adding new planes kits to 51-49% rule of EAB, Van advises to build the RV-12 as E-LSA (his is the S-LSA) ... if you make changes, as most EAB experimental builders do, then he states it'll be up to the individual builder to "get FAA approval as to the RV-12 meeting the EAB regulations ... 51-49% rule. (All of Van's other kits, including all his Quick Build kits have been grandfathered in as EAB).

That's way I'm not sure which route to take.

E-LSA vs ExAB, pluses minuses?

rsteele — Sun May 04, 2008 3:24 pm

Author: rsteele

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:24 pm

Do the two kits actually result in the same plane? If so then the ELSA version has just had it's gross weight reduced in the paperwork to meet the LSA rule. You can do exactly the same thing with an EAB. With an EAB the builder is 100% responsible for the limitations of the aircraft. The only rules you have to obey are physics and the 51% rule.

I don't think there is a "right" answer to this question. There are very limited changes allowed to an ELSA, the result must be VERY close to what the manufacture provides. With EAB you can do whatever you like (not that this is always a good idea!). You as the builder have much more leeway. It sounds like you already of the maintenance issues .

I'm currently kit building an EAB. I've managed to mangle plenty of parts and have been able to re-fabricate them myself for very little money and time. I'm not clear if this is allowed with an ELSA, my bet is that you would have to purchase replacement parts from the kit supplier. I'd ask BushCaddy about this. And on this note, make sure the kit supplier will support you after you get the kit - believe me, you will need the support.

Good luck with whichever route you choose. I'm sure you will find building very rewarding.

You might want to check out the videos available on homebuilthelp.com. These are aimed an the Zenith aircraft, but both Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft and Metelworking 101 would be very worthwhile if you have limited metal working experience.

Ron

First Flight Finally

MikeB — Fri May 02, 2008 10:09 am

Author: MikeB

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:09 am

For me, with 23 hours so far, landings are the most difficult thing.

1st Takeoff

MikeB — Fri May 02, 2008 10:05 am

Author: MikeB

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:05 am

Seth, thanks for posting your experience. I saved your blog in my Favorites so I can read about your progress. It'll help me as I progress too.
Yeah taxiing is tricky. Takeoffs are a lot of fun! Get centered on the runway, shove that throttle in and haul a** down that runway, then up you go! When taking off, if you have the plane trimmed for takeoff it will fly at the best angle once you lift off the ground.
When I begin a take off I say to myself "feet on the floor!" so I don't use the brakes by mistake. As soon as the nosewheel leaves the ground remember to apply more right rudder.
I think one of the thngs that is fascinating about takeoffs is, they are the closest experience to the dreams we have about flying, where in the dream we simply lift off the ground like a bird.

Its in my blood.... but not my eyes

MikeB — Fri May 02, 2008 9:49 am

Author: MikeB

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:49 am

Welcome to the group!

Old user fees

Cub flyer — Thu May 01, 2008 7:57 pm

Author: Cub flyer

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:57 pm

I was digging around in a new / old Sport aviation magazine collection

Guess what are the hot topics in the late 60's early 70's.

User fees, Turbine aircraft tax, Congress saying GA does not pay their dues, skyrocketing cost of aviation, High fuel costs, low cost engines, VW conversions, Jim Bede is in every issue as the poster child. FAA reorganization, outdated airtraffic control, new ELT's, New composite airplanes, division between low cost aviation and high performance GA.

Sound familiar. This was almost 40 years ago.

LSA has replaced the Jim Bede for hot news in every issue but the rest sounds exactly the same. Plane performance claims and hopes of many are the same.

I had to look to see if I had the magazine date wrong.

Natural Selection

Cub flyer — Thu May 01, 2008 7:51 pm

Author: Cub flyer

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:51 pm

What were they expecting would happen?

Maybe they should have used a motorhome. or at least a high wing airplane so the pilot could see what was going on.

Pretty funny stuff. A Trinidad has strong landing gear.

LSA with the highest Useful Load?

Skyview Aviation — Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:03 am

Author: Skyview Aviation

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:03 am

We are a dealer for the Skylark LSA and the Breezer LSA, both of which have more useful load than any other LSAs I've been able to find.

The Skylark has an empty weight of 648#, holds 24 gals fuel, and has a gross of 1320. This leaves a full-fuel payload of 528#.

The Breezer has an empty weight of 700#, holds 18 gals fuel, and has a gross of 1320. This leaves a full-fuel payload of 512#.

KAPPA ride

vwvectors — Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 pm

Author: vwvectors

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 pm

Cub Flyer do they plan on a gross weight increase to 1320 ? Do they plan on any improvments or upgrades in the near future ?

We look forward to a FULL & detailed pirep . :~)