Sport Pilot Talk

Jeff Tipton · Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 73

My instructor has recently had a surge of new student solo's. For what ever reason he is of the opinion that all first solo's have to be at a controlled field.

Yeah I know. I never heard of such either.

The question is this. He is leaving for regional carriers and as the students did not solo here, what endorsements if any would they need to solo here? Not counting the ninety day endorsement.

scottj · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: Student Solo

As an instructor, I would not sign off another instructor's students for solo until after I had flown with them and done some ground Q & A.

New instructor, new endorsement for solo. Even if from my own flight school.

No, there is no rule that a controlled airport must be used for student pilot solo flights. It is a nice idea, it would kill two training birds with one stone if available, but it is not required for Sport Pilots to solo at a Towered Airport.

The controlled airspace endorsement is a seperate endorsement in your log book from your CFI. It is only needed if you plan to fly in B, C, or D airspace as a Sport Pilot.

Jeff Tipton · Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 73

Scotti I agree with you, it is an interesting concept for the first solo and I agree the new instructor should fly with the student before they sign the student off for solo.

The question is; Does the student need another endorsement to solo here. The place they soloed is more than twenty five miles from home.

scottj · Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Endorsements

You are a difficult student and making me work (for free). :lol:

Solo takeoffs and landings at another airport within 25 NM: § 61.93(b) (1)

But you had to toss in the 'more than 25 miles' angle, so is this then a cross country flight or a new home base airport?

Prior to 1st X-Country Solo place in log book: (Instructor that did the Training) 6. Initial solo cross-country flight Training: § 61.93(c) (1)

Prior to each Solo X-country flight: (Any Instructor that reviews the flight planning) 7. Solo cross-country flight: § 61.93(c) (2)

It is doubtfull that a flight school would rent an airplane to a student pilot unless a current instructor was working with him, and that instructor was familiar with the student and had flown with him. I think I went through four or five in getting my Private because they kept leaving for the airlines back in 2002 or so.

I think I would play it safe, as an instructor, and re-do the endorsements after I spent some training time with a transfer student. An instructor is not just looking out for the student, but his own certificate as well if the student screws up.

Here is a link to the FARs. http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/sport_pilot/media/student_pilot%20_guidance.pdf

Jeff Tipton · Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 73

Actually; I am not the student I am the FBO that has students and will be looking for a new instructor.

I have five students that have soloed in the last two weeks and none of them have cross country training yet.

I am just trying to keep everything legal. The instructor trained the students at this airport but their first and only solo has been at the controlled field, more than twenty five miles from home.

The solo endorsement was made at the controlled field not this airport.

Do the students need an additional endorsement to solo at there home field?

scottj · Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: New Endorsements?

The best answer I can give you is to call your local FSDO and ask them.

My position is "yes" they need new endorsements because 1) it was 25+ miles away that they were soloed at, 2) it is a differant instructor, who had his own rules about requiring towered airport soloes to begin with, and the instructor needs to meet and get to know his new students, and 3) I try to err on the side of caution. More is better is than not enough (signatures in a student log book).

What type of airplane are you using in the flight school?

Jeff Tipton · Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 73

We have downsized and are using only a Piper Warrior at this time. A customer has bought an Ercoupe that we are working on and depending on useful load we may add it to the flight line.

scottj · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Training Aircraft

Many flight schools are looking into LSA. The Flight Design CT is reliable, faster and wider than most traditional aircraft in schools... cheaper to buy new...and the best part...it only burns 3~4 gallons of gas per hour. Very economical to operate. Give me a shout off line if you would like more info.
Thanks!
Scott

Paul Hamilton · Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 62 Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada

It is pretty clear in FAR 61.87 b 1 ii that the solo aeronautical knowledge is for a specific airport.

Here are the solo endorsements I have in my training syllabus which reference specific airports for unsupervised solo:

Student Pilot Seeking a Sport Pilot Certificate - Endorsements

_____ Instructor endorses back of Student Pilot Certificate make/model § 61.87(n) (1).

Summary of solo logbook endorsements which should add any additional limitations as required for solo flights:

Prior to first local supervised solo flight, place in logbook:
1. Pre-solo aeronautical knowledge: § 61.87(b)

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has satisfactorily completed the pre-solo knowledge exam of § 61.87(b) for the (make and model aircraft). J. J. Jones, 12-25-2004 J. J. Jones 610610CFI 12-06

2a. Pre-solo flight training: § 61.87(c) § 61.87(n) (2)

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required pre-solo training in a (make and model aircraft). I have determined he/she has demonstrated the proficiency of § 61.87(d) and is proficient to make a supervised solo flight on (include date) in (make and model aircraft).
J. J. Jones, 12-25-2004 J. J. Jones 610610CFI 12-06

Prior to each additional local supervised solo place in logbook:
2b. Supervised solo flight training: § 61.87(c) § 61.87(n) (2)

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required pre-solo training in a (make and model aircraft). I have determined he/she has demonstrated the proficiency of § 61.87(d) and is proficient to make a supervised solo flight on (include date) in (make and model aircraft).
J. J. Jones, 12-25-2004 J. J. Jones 610610CFI 12-06

After supervised solo flights place in logbook endorsement for unsupervised solo:
(typically endorsements are for 7 to 10 days. 90 days is the maximum allowed.)
3. Solo flight (1st 90-day (maximum allowed) period): § 61.87(n) (2)

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required training to qualify for local solo flying at (list airport). I have determined he/she meets the applicable requirements of § 61.87(n) and is proficient to make solo flights in (make and model) until (maximum 90 days from date given).
J. J. Jones, 12-25-2004 J. J. Jones 610610CFI 12-06

4. Solo flight (each additional 90-day (maximum allowed) period): § 61.87(p) (1) (v):

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required training to qualify for solo flying. I have determined he/she meets the applicable requirements of § 61.87(p) and is proficient to make local solo flights at (list airport) in (make and model) until (maximum 90 days from date given).
J. J. Jones, 12-25-2004 J. J. Jones 610610CFI 12-06

5. Solo takeoffs and landings at another airport within 25 NM: § 61.93(b) (1):

I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required training of § 61.93(b)(1). I have determined that he/she is proficient to practice solo takeoffs and landings at (airport name). The takeoffs and landings at (airport name) are subject to the following conditions: (List any applicable conditions or limitations.) J. J. Jones, 12-25-2004 J. J. Jones 610610CFI 12-06

agaviator · Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Kingman,AZ

Jeff Tipton wrote: We have downsized and are using only a Piper Warrior at this time. A customer has bought an Ercoupe that we are working on and depending on useful load we may add it to the flight line.

If it is newer than a 415-C it won't meet LSA requirements.

CTflyer · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:

The Ercoupe model "415 C/D" also qualifies as LSA. Edit: models after the C/D don't qualify as LSA.

Note that any modification which *ever* took the plane from LSA requirements prevents the plane from ever going *back* to LSA.

Thus, if the LSA Ercoupe 415-C or 415-C/D was ever modified to allow a max gross of 1450 (which made it an Ercoupe D), then it remains ineligible as LSA even if the modification is reversed.

Learned this the hard way ....

Tom