Sport Pilot Talk

artp · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 144 Location: Odenton, Md

I am now the “owner” of a CTSW. I paid for it in June for August delivery. In September they had not finished setting it up. In October it was waiting on a part. In November it was “delivered” and I signed the bill of sale but they took it back because of radio problems, trim problems, and the GPS was not talking to the Dynon 120. They tried to deliver a few weeks later but the GPS was not talking to the autopilot. A couple of weeks later I went to Lancaster to check it out. It had a steady low CHT alarm with a reading between 0 and 30 degrees. I am now 6 weeks into my warranty and I have yet to have a plane.

I am reminded of the US auto makers in the 1950’s when they were selling lots of cars and saw no need to spend money on quality control. If they had a production problem with a car they shipped it anyway and let the dealer try to fix it.

By the way, according to the W&B the empty weight of the plane is 350.8 kg (772 lbs) which is in line with other makes of LSA and certainly not the high useful load many are expecting. With the CTLS weighing even more you will have the choice between of a passenger or range, but not both.

The plane certainly doesn’t appear to be the reliable personal transportation it is billed to be.

CharlieTango · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:05 am Post subject:

art,

good to see you have expanded your ctsw bashing to include the ctls, way to stay ahead of the curve.

like most owners i find the ctsw to be extremely reliable but since you haven't flown oine yet i guess you remain the expert.

your issues sound pretty trivial, i would have had them rectified in a day or two.

you are right the useful load is less than advertised, but still good.

almost all planes have a decision to maximize range or payload.

artp · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 144 Location: Odenton, Md

CharlieTango wrote: your issues sound pretty trivial, i would have had them rectified in a day or two.

Well some of us have to rely upon the dealer to fix the planes he sells. I do note that on the CT site there seems to be a lot of "do it yourself" attitude to fixing CT problems. I guess I take the FAR's more seriously when it comes to who is allowed to perform maintenance on a plane.

CharlieTango · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:08 am Post subject:

there you go again art, putting words in my mouth.

like many new slsa owners i had a squawk list. i flew for a week and went back to the dealer and watched while he made the necessary adjustments and then i flew home.

artp wrote: ...By the way, according to the W&B the empty weight of the plane is 350.8 kg (772 lbs) which is in line with other makes of LSA and certainly not the high useful load many are expecting. With the CTLS weighing even more you will have the choice between of a passenger or range, but not both...

americans aren't all the same size. for the smaller ctsw owners ( ctls is like 6 pounds heavier ) the limitation is room, if both pilot and passenger are "heavy" weight comes into play. to be fair a ct holds 34 gallons while many designs hold 24 or 18. your assertion that you must choose between a passenger or range in a ct is over stated. certainly you can constrain the amount of fuel and baggage and compromise and still be more useful than other slsa's.

CharlieTango · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:13 am Post subject:

artp wrote:
Well some of us have to rely upon the dealer to fix the planes he sells. I do note that on the CT site there seems to be a lot of "do it yourself" attitude to fixing CT problems. I guess I take the FAR's more seriously when it comes to who is allowed to perform maintenance on a plane.

hey art, i am getting tired or your implications that i ( and other ctsw owners ) violate FARs.

ever heard that some owner maintenance is permissible? ever consider that some of us take courses that permit maintenance and even inspections?

ever consider that we work with A&P's and they sign off what we do?

artp · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 144 Location: Odenton, Md

[quote="CharlieTango"] artp wrote:
ever consider that we work with A&P's and they sign off what we do?

Which brings me back to the original complaint. I buy a plane, I expect it to work, and when it doesn't I expect the dealer to fix it. I don't expect to be required to get involved in the maintenance operation in order to have the problems resolved.

CharlieTango · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:

art,

we all expect our new planes to work right. many of us were suprised to find we had squaks to deal with.

you always bash flight design and give the impression this is a flight design issue. to be fair the kind of issues you are dealing with are found on multiple SLSA aircraft and are a result of the category being new and the ASTM standard.

i suggest that in most cases flight design is ahead of the curve here, perhaps some dealers are better than others.

Cub flyer · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 333

Don't feel bad. My X air H was supposed to have a empty weight of 578 lbs "equipped"

Once completed with no options, no wheel pants, no doors, no radios and a very light (22oz) digital panel weighed 639 lbs.

The Gross weight was advertised as 1232 or 1185 lbs depending on who you talked to. When I translated the manual from metric to american it turns out gross weight was 1080 lbs.

So I went from expecting a useful load of 654 lbs to 441 pounds. Less once I installed the doors and any radios.

This was a bolt together airplane with no way to add additional structure or have variations in weight (aluminum tube and sailcloth).

FD might want to try Tim Hass and Approach systems fast stack wiring harnesses. Very modular harness construction with multiple pin computer cables. Plug and play autopilots, GPS, Nav/Comm radios. No harness cutting or splicing. I've switched to them on all new installations. Price is same or less than a custom harness and it is easy to upgrade in the future. If any defects just send the cable back.

Doug · Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 24 Location: Dallas, TX

artp wrote: By the way, according to the W&B the empty weight of the plane is 350.8 kg (772 lbs) which is in line with other makes of LSA and certainly not the high useful load many are expecting.
Interesting. What options do you have on your plane? Most steam gauge CTSWs run 690-715 lb empty and fully equipped airplanes 700 to 725. I've never seen a CT above 730lb empty.

Can you post your specific W&B?

SP_Laser · Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 35 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

My Experience with a CTSW:

This morning I grabbed a CTSW by the prop and pulled it out of my way so I could get the motorglider around it.

Conclusion: It rolled well. Highly recommended!

Roger · Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 73

Congrats Art on being a new owner of a CT. My suggestion would be to stop complaining and start enjoying the fastest selling LSA in the Country. Have some fun along with the rest of us! I doubt your dealer is going to let you down.

And remember you seem to belong to a VERY SMALL minority with CT headahces.

I love my plane as do the rest of us - I hope you will too. But if you don't...sell it and find something you'll be happy with so we don't have to listen to you whine anymore!!

Hope you enjoy your holidays!

Roger H

Roger · Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 73

Doug,

Mine came in at 751. It has the upgraded compostie material option!!!

Roger

artp · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 144 Location: Odenton, Md

Roger wrote: Congrats Art on being a new owner of a CT. My suggestion would be to stop complaining and start enjoying the fastest selling LSA in the Country. Have some fun along with the rest of us! I doubt your dealer is going to let you down.

I would love to, except that after owning it for 6+ weeks I still don't have the plane.

artp · Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 144 Location: Odenton, Md

Doug wrote: artp wrote: By the way, according to the W&B the empty weight of the plane is 350.8 kg (772 lbs) which is in line with other makes of LSA and certainly not the high useful load many are expecting.
Interesting. What options do you have on your plane? Most steam gauge CTSWs run 690-715 lb empty and fully equipped airplanes 700 to 725. I've never seen a CT above 730lb empty.

Can you post your specific W&B?

I have the Dynon, autopilot, 496, GTX330, cloth seats, and 2 blade prop.

I scanned it, I have a JPG of it, but I can't figure out how to post it.
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rfane · Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 89 Location: San Jose, CA

Art,

My CT weighs in at 750 empty. Similarly equipped, except I have the 327 transponder rather than the 330. How much does the TIS portion of the 330 weigh?