Sport Pilot Talk

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

There's been several recent topics on the high acquisition costs of a shiny, new S-LSA with all the bells and whistles. A lot suggestions were made as to how to fly for less. $$$ is important but it appears that sometimes we forget WHY we want one of these birds. You absolutely cannot beat the sheer joy of flying a sport plane. Much more fun than a Cessna or Piper.

Remember the $100 hamburger for us former Part 23 flyers? Today, on a beautiful winter late morning, my wife and I flew down to the The Runway Cafe in Lancaster, TX for lunch. Simple menu, great service, lots of hangar flying and a couple burgers. Total cost, including fuel: $34. Twice the fun for 1/3 the price.

Lancaster is a very unique airport where it is not uncommon to see a warbird, a soviet era jet and piper cub, all in the pattern.

Makes for a nice day.

flyboy2007 · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 79 Location: wisconsin

That $34 is not a total cost though. you are not including your payment for that expensive aircraft, insurance, or maintenance costs. But you are right it is a lot of fun anyways!!!!

Jack Tyler · Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:22 am Post subject:

Dave, nice post. And you put Lancaster on the map for us, as Patricia and I are looking for some interesting stop-overs when flying west to San Diego.

However, to put things in perspective: Your $34 lunch would have cost us ~$40, given the distance between Allen and Lancaster...and we're flying a Part 23 Grumman with a 180 hp engine. And our Tiger, while certainly far older than a relatively new LSA, looks almost new, cost ~1/2-1/3 as much (depending on which new/relatively new LSA we compare it to) and also came with a low-time engine (100+ hrs). That certainly doesn't argue against the point you were making - LSA flying is still 'flying' and is another way to enjoy that experience with equal pleasure. Amen to that.

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

Jack,

The Cold War Air Museum is also at Lancaster and open on Saturdays. You can get lucky on other days as you may find volunteers working on th various aircraft who will gladly let you in.

At the risk of derailing my point....
Quote: Your $34 lunch would have cost us ~$40, given the distance between Allen and Lancaster...and we're flying a Part 23 Grumman with a 180 hp engine. Now then, I think your cost estimate is a little optimistic :). I took the scenenic route for total airtime of a little over an hour. I burned 4 gallons of 93 octane E10 at $3.5/g for $14 in fuel. Lunch was $20. The Tiger is about 20% faster and burns 10g/h of Avgas. 100ll runs a minimum of $5/g in the Dallas area so my guess for fuel cost is $40. I think you'd be closer to $60 --or even higher if you don't pass on the double chocolate cake dessert :)

Quote: And our Tiger, while certainly far older than a relatively new LSA, looks almost new, cost ~1/2-1/3 as much (depending on which new/relatively new LSA we compare it to) and also came with a low-time engine (100+ hrs).
You also need to compare apples to apples. S-LSA is starting to have a decent used market. There are 5 year old CTs, Stings, etc in the $70K to $80K range while I found what looked like a nice '78 Tiger for $55k or a less old '93 for $93K.

Clearly a used LSA versus a used Tiger is no contest in the $34 hamburger sweepstakes :D

Jack Tyler · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:08 am Post subject:

Dave, I do acknowledge your LSA will provide you with the cheaper hamburger. OTOH my point is that there's no $100 hamburger awaiting most Part 23 aircraft owners for the trip you mentioned. I thought it important to make that point because, despite the constant emphasis LSAs are less expensive to fly, they are often not all that less expensive.

We were doing some flight tests yesterday, ID'ing performance numbers for the Instrument refresher I'll be doing in the Tiger now. Using JPI's EDM700, I was clocking 120 kts IAS @ 8.2 to 8.8 gph fuel burn at various altitudes, so that means I'd have arrived at Lancaster about 20 mins after departure (40 NM distance). That's a round trip of 80 NM plus a bit of time in the pattern, or about 3/4 hour fuel burn. Rounding that up, I would have burned ~$35 in 100LL so, while my hamburger lunch guestimate was a bit optimistic, it doesn't exceed your $34 lunch by a meaningful amount. And that really was what I meant to convey.

I do envy you being able to burn mogas, which I did for 8 years when flying my last Grumman, and I do wish an STC was available for the Tiger. Alas, it is for the engine but not the airframe. But let's not overlook one other relevant detail: The Rotax 912-power LSA's, when flown at power settings that get them near their advertised cruise speeds, typically burn 5.5-6 gph of fuel. (E.g. see Paul's summary on his flight to Sebring and back to PA in the Sport Star). Your fuel burn was enviably lower at 4 gals for 1+ hours, but that's probably not representative of the Sting, CT et al. group you mentioned.

So bottom line: You get your hamburger 'for free'. Perhaps even the Double Chocolate Cake! And I get to dip into the $25K+ I didn't spend on an LSA to pay for my higher fuel costs. Actually, neither option sounds all that bad and we're both enjoying flying to interesting places. I think we both won.

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

Jack,

I was just yanking your chain :D

Quote: So bottom line: You get your hamburger 'for free'. Perhaps even the Double Chocolate Cake! And I get to dip into the $25K+ I didn't spend on an LSA to pay for my higher fuel costs. Actually, neither option sounds all that bad and we're both enjoying flying to interesting places. I think we both won.

Couldn't agree more.

May have said this before but almost bought a Tiger some 15 years ago. Really nice plane and was virtually rebuilt during an extensive annual by FletchAir. I'm fairly tall (6'4") and the canopy clearance was a little tight and useful load was on the edge for my mission (spouse, 2 kids and luggage) so I gave up ~10kts and went with a Cherokee 180. Even revisited that path when I purchased my LSA with a mission of only one pax. Found a very nice Cheetah (upgraded in almost every way including the LoPresti Cowl). In the end, my better half required a chute which narrowed the choices.