Sport Pilot Talk

theoarno · Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Texas

This AC was mentioned in a previous post but I thought it deserved its own post and title.

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/12/08/pipistrel-introduces-alpha-trainer/#more-54875

the above link will get you to an article.

ct4me · Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Posts: 43 Location: Phoenix, AZ

It's now $85K, but still a bargain. Flight schools and CFIs, waddyathink?
They don't give specs on cabin width, but it looks snug.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=de242308-eb5b-4e6f-9f73-13b7c24076b5
http://pipistrel-usa.com/models/alpha-trainer.html

zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 258 Location: Albuquerque, NM

We need to hear from an adventurous soul how long it took to place an order and take a delivery, and then the parts support. Recall that FD MC found no traction whatsoever.

c162pilot · Joined: 05 Aug 2011 Posts: 29 Location: New York - HPN

The width of the ALPHA is the same as the Virus & Sinus. I plan to look at a Sinus in a few weeks. Paul Bertorelli of avweb.com and Aviation Consumer fame is quite enthused with the Pipestrel company.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_PipistrelVirusSW_FlightTrial_206337-1.html

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

The Virus claims: Quote: 110 cm (43.3 inch) at shoulders, 114 cm (45 inch) at bottom of seat.

ct4me · Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Posts: 43 Location: Phoenix, AZ

I like their planes and the company is definitely an innovator. Take a look at that video... doesn't the tail get awfully close to the ground, just taxiing around? I know, with the CT, there have been a few tail strikes on steep "soft field" landings, and go-arounds that required a steep climb. And the CT tail is quite a bit higher than the Pipistrel. Just wonderin'...

zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 258 Location: Albuquerque, NM

That obviously depends on how much the flaps change the effective angle of incidence.

Edit: Never mind, I watched the video now too. Well, ready that tail skids.

Jim Stewart · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 259

It seems unlikely the price will stay down at $83k if it's even marginally successful. There's just not enough money there for what you get.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1390 Location: Lock Haven PA

ct4me wrote: doesn't the tail get awfully close to the ground, just taxiing around?

Yep, and the Pipistrel isn't alone in that regard. I've scraped the tail skid on my SportStar quite a few times. (Of course, maybe the fact that I still habitually do taildragger landings, stick full back, has something to do with that.)

saintlfd · Joined: 17 Jul 2009 Posts: 47 Location: ARGYLE, TEXAS

Here's a link to the manual for the Alpha trainer.
http://www.pipistrel-usa.com/manuals/Pipistrel%20Alpha%20Trainer%20Information%20Pack%20R3.pdf

To my amateur eye this looks like a breakthrough design. Specs that stand out (to me)--
*12.1 lb/sq ft wing loading (most LSA are 10lbs or less)
*Vno=108 kts, the same as cruise speed at 75% (most LSA have to slow way down when encountering turbulence)
*507 lb payload with 'chute and full fuel (over 300 mile range with over 1 hr reserve)

Apparent tradeoffs--no fancy avionics only analog instruments +GPS; only 22 lb baggage capacity (with full fuel).

What are your thoughts on this craft?[/url]

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

From another forum:

Quote: Posted by: "Michael Coates" mcoates@mcp.com.au xairaustralia
Thu May 17, 2012 11:45 am (PDT)

Pipistrel don't lie or exaggerate about ANYTHING.... our performance is documented and fully validated by NASA. Please look at the results of the green flight challenge where you will see speeds, economy and performance listed for the 80 horsepower engine and also the 100 horsepower engine in a near identical airframe.

Regarding pricing, the first 10 aircraft which have been sold to the USA are delivered flying etc for just $85,000. This was the agreement for the first 10 aircraft sold, the price is now slightly higher (by a few thousand dollars) because we are changing the configuration and adding different instruments including an artificial horizon and FAA legal lights for night-time flying. (the release customers got these items at no additional charge).
The price of the aircraft has gone up by the additional cost of these items only but is still under $90,000 delivered.

$90K for a new arguably cutting edge designed aircraft isn't half-bad.

RyanShort1 · Joined: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 101 Location: San Antonio, TX

ct4me wrote: It's now $85K, but still a bargain. Flight schools and CFIs, waddyathink?
They don't give specs on cabin width, but it looks snug.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=de242308-eb5b-4e6f-9f73-13b7c24076b5
http://pipistrel-usa.com/models/alpha-trainer.html
Having access to a Virus that I've flown a few times (it's registered as a motorglider) I would say that they seem to be capable of delivering as promised...

Ryan

Jack Tyler · Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:42 am Post subject:

For those interested in learning more about Pipistrel a/c once they begin flying in the 'real world', you might consider joining the Pipistrel Yahoo Group. Info and pireps are offered by people all over the world. I don't think Ivo Boscarol is capable of doing anything except innovate, from a factory design to an a/c design, and all the current Pipistrel models strike me as exceptional performers when stacked up against their competition...which in some cases doesn't exist. (Imagine e.g. a motorglider that performs very well as a sailplane and can power at 130 kts).

Issues I'd be concerned about:
-- Through some kind of weird distributorship agreement, Australian Michael Coates has had distribution rights for the USA (along with Oz and I believe NZ) so an owner would have to find that acceptable. He strikes me as very responsive...but he ain't here.
-- As described in the recent Aviation Consumer, these a/c are designed & built with a sailplane mentality, meaning parts and pieces are measured in grams as often as ounces or pounds. If it isn't necessary for structural or performance reasons, it isn't in the design - perhaps generating a reaction not unlike most American's initial reaction to a 1950's VW Bug. You will feel like a minimalist the first time you climb into a Virus (starting with the sling seat)...but you'll like it if you are a 'form follows function' kinda guy/gal. (I doubt many Flight Design and Sport Cruiser owners, with their impressive panels and nicely fitted out interiors, covet any of the Pipistrel designs...).
-- The designs as built seem very robust, especially when you consider they can perform well beyond most LSA models. OTOH they have a lot of lightweight parts and owners seem to report a lot of wear & tear among the 'little pieces' of the a/c. You'll get a good feel for this reading the Yahoo Group posts, but which I didn't get by reading the AC review.

Pipistrel illustrates what the LSA market was missing when it was given birth, IMO. Rather than fostering deep innovation, most LSA models were either inflated ultralights or Part 23 a/c shrunken down. (See Pete's comments about the Skycatcher as an excellent example). Ivo and his team came at it from a sailplane perspective and, while it has its disadvantages, that orientation is IMO simply more apropos to the weight & performance limitations of the LSA rule. I think it's a very good thing, longer term, for the LSA marketplace to have such an innovative manufacturer.