Sport Pilot Talk

Lance Link · Joined: 22 Aug 2011 Posts: 2 Location: Walnut Creek CA

I'm looking for a plane to buy. Almost all of my experience has been in high-wings including Cessnas and a Remos (which has bad ventilation and a lot of glass so it gets darn warm itself). The area I live in, inland central California, can get pretty hot in the summer.

I've flown some low-wings lately, and I like them, in December. I'd hate to buy one now and find out I roast in the thing come summer. One model (Tecnam Sierra) has a sliding canopy so I don't know to what extent sun shades are the answer. It doesn't look like the fold-up kind (Koger?) will work in that plane, maybe the stick-on kind will (?).

I'm wondering about the relative difference in discomfort from the sun in, say, a Tecnam Sierra vs a Tecnam Bravo for example. Any help and opinions will be appreciated.

Jim Stewart · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 259

Real hot. I had about 20 hours of instruction in a SportStar in Sacramento. If you can get a top visor for it, it definitely helps.

oldsportpilot · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

Jim Stewart wrote: Real hot. I had about 20 hours of instruction in a SportStar in Sacramento. If you can get a top visor for it, it definitely helps.

I have about 100 hours in an Evektor Sportstar, and in the summer the heat is unbearable at low altitudes in Maryland where I live. The overhead shade helps a little, but not much. In the winter cockpit temps are very comfortable on clear days without using heat, and the view is incredible.

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

Hi Lance,

I've had a bubble canopy LSA for 4 years in the Dallas area and don't find this any less comfortable flying in the summer (71 days over 100 last year) than my prior low wing GA aircraft. My canopy is tinted and I have two stick on shades that I move around depending on sun angle. A clear canopy might be problematic, heat-wise.

The Tecnam Sierra's sliding canopy will be a plus on the ground since you can keep it open and generate more than enough wind to make a hot day tolerable. I'd add the stick on shades and you'll be fine provided the Sierra has good ventilation. I'm not a fan of the mounted accordian shades -- takes up some headroom (I'm fairly tall) and are ugly! I have seen a couple manufacturers with an option to paint a small portion of the canopy (directly overhead). Saw an Evektor Harmony with this: looked good and didn't seem to overly impair the panoramic view.

Keep in mind that most high-wing LSA's have done a great job of opening up the cockpit with swept wind screens, skylights and windows. Many high-wing owners cover these in the summer.

The key, to me, is adequate ventilation with the ability to shade direct, overhead sunshine.

FastEddieB · Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 207 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

They don't get much "bubble-ier" than my Sky Arrow:

Yes, it gets hot in the summer. Especially sitting on the ramp without sunscreens or cover in place. Hot enough that my Dynon on occasion gives a "high temp" warning and reverts to a B & W mode (but still seems to work OK).

But on the ground, we can taxi with the canopy open. After takeoff the trick is to try to climb high enough that it cools down to tolerable levels. The Sky Arrow has window vents front and back, a sliding window and cabin vents which move a fair amount of air.

I've thought about tinting the top of the canopy, but haven't so far. I do have a couple of those suction cup sun shields and they help with direct sun. You can probably make one out in the above photo.

I also try to wear a long-sleeved shirt to avoid too much sun exposure. I try to remember to make it a dark color - light colors reflect badly on the inside of the canopy.

FastEddieB · Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 207 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

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zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 258 Location: Albuquerque, NM

Remember that video where a guy with SportCruiser flew around the pattern with the canopy open? Surely one should be able to taxi with one open too, except that the procedure and material has to be thought out that prevents it from closing completely and in the same time from blown forward by a burst of tailwind.

BTW, Harmony has new ventillation intakes in the roots of the canopy, which SportStar didn't have.

Lance Link · Joined: 22 Aug 2011 Posts: 2 Location: Walnut Creek CA

Thanks for the tips. Sounds like I don't need to worry about ruling out a low-wing with a bubble canopy, but I'll want some shade. The nice thing about the Sierra is that there is a well-defined part of the top section of the canopy that I can fill in with a couple of custom-sized stick-on shades. (It doesn't have quite the glass area of an Evektor, for example). If I get desperate I guess I can always have the top of the canopy painted. And I like the idea of long sleeved shirts. I've never thought of that. Direct sun against the skin is part of the problem. Appreciate all of the help.

designrs · Joined: 23 Sep 2009 Posts: 144

Canopy resting on elbow does the taxi ventilation trick on hot days in SportCruiser / PiperSport.

zaitcev wrote: Remember that video where a guy with SportCruiser flew around the pattern with the canopy open? Surely one should be able to taxi with one open too, except that the procedure and material has to be thought out that prevents it from closing completely and in the same time from blown forward by a burst of tailwind.

BTW, Harmony has new ventillation intakes in the roots of the canopy, which SportStar didn't have.

Helen · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Maryland

I really depends on the ventilation of the plane. We used to have a SportCruiser and we cooked in that thing. There was zero ventilation at any sort of medium to high angle of attack so pattern work, slow flight, and related flight maneuvers were miserable in summer.

By contrast, the Sky Arrow has removable back windows which create excellent cross ventilation and our Sierra, even with the canopy closed, has an excellent ventilation system throughout all phases of flight.

One other thing you might want to look into with a bubble canopy is what happens if it opens in flight. I know a local CFI who refuses to fly SportCruisers any more because she had the canopy open in flight, was unable to close it in flight, and was unable to make the plane climb with the canopy open. Our Sierra looses 10kts with the canopy open but handles fine. In our Sky Arrow, a canopy opening in flight will scare you and cause you to loose you hat and headset (been there done that) but can be closed in flight and does not affect climb.

Helen

Jack Tyler · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:10 am Post subject:

As you will already know, most of us have an inbred bias in favor or high-wings over low-wings or vice-versa. You don't seem to fit that mold if you are interested in looking at LW's and weighing their traits against HW's, and that's good because it will lead you - ultimately - to the a/c you'll find most suitable for you. Having said that, within the LW category, I thought a couple of gems of commentary here stand out :
-- per Helen's comments, compare models for the integrity of their (in flight) latching systems, the ability to taxi with the canopy *securely* fixed but open, what happens to the canopy should it not be properly secured prior to take-off (some will create quite a ruckus, scaring or so distracting the pilot - and failing to properly secure the canopy does happen with some regularity) and whether the canopy can be re-secured in flight (perhaps at a lower speed - many can not, at any speed). Each model will have its own characteristics re: these variables and it's important to know what they are for any model you are considering.
-- the comment "The key, to me, is adequate ventilation with the ability to shade direct, overhead sunshine." by dstclair is an excellent sumary statement to guide your shopping - just remember to apply it to taxi and low-speed maneuvers, not just regular flight conditions

The best single criterion for making a cockpit at least semi-comfortable in hot, sticky, cloudless summer weather, in my experience (I'm in Florida), is an a/c that can be flown with the canopy securely fixed but slightly open. It's made our flights in Grummans far more bearable than would otherwise have been the case. From a safety standpoint, I value the attributes that you can open the canopy in flight, you can easily re-secure it while in flight, and should you be anticipating an uncertain landing (we had to land on a driftwood-strewn beach on a deserted barrier island one time without power), it's easy to open the canopy prior to landing in order to help facilitate exiting the cockpit should the a/c flip. (This is also potentially helpful when flying to the Bahamas. If you carry a liferaft, you would like some assurance, after a fixed gear a/c flips on ditching, you can get it and you out of the plane in order to use it).

One final thought: Painting the overhead section of the canopy is becoming more commonplace and makes good sense to me. No shades to wear out over time, no overhead obstruction, it eliminates most of the 'baking' phenomenon because most of us fly most often when the sun is overhead, and the color and design can be quite complimentary to the a/c's paint scheme. Unless you are doing formation flying, it's rare one needs to look directly above the a/c.

At Sebring's 2011 LSA Expo, I sat in a lot of HW LSA models, as well as many LW's. A good deal of effort has been made with some HW models to improve visibility, yet they all remind me (to one degree or another) of being in a fort's tower, looking out thru its openings. Some of the LW models, by comparison, offer a breathtaking view all around - altho' to be fair, in some cases not so much directly below. That difference in view is a very important quality in my mind. It would be helpful if you determined how important it was to you, too.

Good luck on the shopping!