Sport Pilot Talk

snarf · Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 1 Location: Fort Worth

I apologize if this has been asked before, but I didn't see it addressed anywhere.

I've been trying to decide which of a couple of places I want to go to begin training. I thought I had decided on the one that would be most economical and still cater to what I need rather than what seemed to almost be a diploma-mill type school that cared more about getting me in and taking my money. But I was looking around online last week and saw that the plane I would be training in has been ground-looped and flipped over a couple of times in the last decade. Both times it appears that it was a student doing some solo time in the plane.

My question is actually a two-parter.

First, is it safe to train in an aircraft that has flipped over and had to be repaired? I know people wreck cars all the time and drive them after they've been fixed, but altitude doesn't generally seem to be a problem when you're supposed to be on the ground. If the plane has been repaired by an A&P is it still ok?

Second, the instructor didn't mention that the plane had been ground looped and flipped over. I don't guess, if that shouldn't be a problem, that he really needs to mention that. But if he's had two students do this should I chalk that up to just a couple of chuckleheaded students (which I'm sure I'll be) that got the jitters and screwed up, or should I see it as a red flag that the instructor may not be as competent as I would hope?

zdc · Guest

I would have no problem flying a properly repaired aircraft. Sometimes the acft is actually better after repair. Parts that have corrosion are replaced with new, old fabric replaced with new etc..

Jack Tyler · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:26 am Post subject:

Snarf:

I don't disagree with zdc's comment...but of course, 'properly repaired' is the assumption. And training a/c can take a beating, and training a/c do end up needing repairs. (OTOH 'flipping over' an a/c even once would be quite unusual. Twice? Bizarre, or more likely not true.)

Having said that, in your shoes I would do a couple of things to satisfy my own mind (as a pilot of the plane and a student of the school):
-- find & talk with the A&P who does the school's repairs, present the info I'd pulled off the web, and ask about the repairs required. I'd do this - first - to confirm the repair history vs. just accepting the web as trrue. And I'd also do this to get a feel for the extent of the repairs, perhaps just satisfying my curiosity.
-- after that, assuming the damage was confirmed, I'd visit the flight school and ask who might be the most knowledgeable about the incidents - perhaps the school owner? It might not be the instructor you met. And I'd ask them what conclusions they drew from these incidents. I'd do this to learn more about the school and instruction given there. (E.g. they could say the instructor who soloed those students no longer works there. They could say they instituted stricter cross-wind rules (Ft. Worth can be a pretty windy place) after the incidents. They could say they changed from the 'slip' to the 'crab' method of teaching cross-wind landings as a result of these incidents.) The person speaking about this could offer lots of useful info...but if my inquiry was simply blown off or minimized, and the incidents were as serious as you describe them, I'd have some reservations about training there.

My hunch? The a/c was not flipped by previous students. Start with the mechanic. Or at the least, start with the airframe log.

drseti · Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:37 am Post subject:

Adding to Jack's comments: a renter pilot (and that includes student pilots) certainly has the right to ask the FBO for a look at the aircraft logbooks. If the repair is detailed and properly documented, I would have no problem flying the plane. (Of course, it's not all that easy for a student to know what constitutes "properly documented".)

Helen · Guest Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Maryland

If it's a taildragger and it's at a flight school, it will have been ground looped, likely multiple times in its history. That just goes with the territory.

Ground loops generally involve a prop strike. Unless the plane has a Rotax, a prop strike will require an engine tear down, something you can inquire about and look for in the logs that will give you idea about whether or not the plane was properly repaired.

Helen