Sport Pilot Talk

Tad Olmsted · Joined: 28 Feb 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Sebring,FL

Here are my shop rates and flat fee MX pricing:

Hourly shop rate per man hour $75
100 HR $500
Annual $600

engine bay will be spotless, floor boards vacuumed and/or wiped down, exterior will be washed, window exterior will be spot free

I will not fix "cosmetic discepancies" unless the owner approves them. If you can live with a wheel pant stop drilled, then so can I. I'll gladly do it, but at $5.00 gasoline, I would rather see you flying. 8)

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

Tad Olmsted wrote: 100 HR $500
Annual $600

Tad, I'm curious why you have different flat rates for 100 Hrs and Annuals. As I see it, a condition inspection is a condition inspection.

Tad Olmsted · Joined: 28 Feb 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Sebring,FL

Good question, there's more involved in an annual. For example FAR 91.207d,AD search, compression check, and other items typically not found on a 100 hr

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

Tad Olmsted wrote: FAR 91.207d,AD search, compression check

I see - thanks. As a matter of fact, on my own planes, I've been doing the ELT check, Service Bulletin search (on LSA, in lieu of ADs), and compression check during each 100 hour inspection anyway, so I can log it as both a 100 hour and an Annual. Yes, I realize it's not required, but it prevents me from having to do an additional inspection in the case of a low-hours year.

roger lee · Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Annual & 100 HR

I too do the annual and 100 hr. at the same time. I charge $600 for the inspections and $50 an hour for other maint items. I always do a carb balance, compression test at all inspections. plus any other annual items. I always use the Rotax check list and any annual check list for the individual aircraft check list. I always use a discrepancy list and sign off the annual and 100 hr. in the log book.This resets either the annual or 100 hr each inspection which is perfectly acceptable.

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

Interesting discussion. It would seem to me that unless you put on more than 200 hours per year, you're always better off to do annuals.

Start flying with fresh annual in January.
October you have 100 hours and do an inspection. January/February you do an annual. Same next year.

Start flying with fresh annual in January.
October you have 100 hours and do an annual. August you have another 100 hours and do an annual. June you do another annual.

Is this right? Any comments?

Tad Olmsted · Joined: 28 Feb 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Sebring,FL

You can reset the annual insp at anytime. If you are that close I feel it would be a good idea to just get an annual.

BTW, I like to see 2 weeks notice if possible for scheduled MX. The schedule board seems to be filling up quicker and quicker these days. I want to make sure I can plan ahead and have parts readily available.

roger lee · Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: Inspection times

If you fly less than 100 hrs a year do the annual and then reset the 100 hr. If you fly more than 100 hrs a year then do the 100 hr. and reset the annual. This keeps from doing extra inspections.

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

roger lee wrote: If you fly less than 100 hrs a year do the annual and then reset the 100 hr. If you fly more than 100 hrs a year then do the 100 hr. and reset the annual. This keeps from doing extra inspections.

I don't understand this. I'd have thought that the only thing that would rest the annual is another annual. If that is the case, you're always better off to make every inspection an annual unless you put on 100 hours or more every 6 months.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

jnmeade wrote: I'd have thought that the only thing that would rest the annual is another annual.

Well, yes, but if an aircraft is in commercial service which requires a 100 hour condition inspection (i.e., flight instruction), then with negligible extra effort the 100 hour can also be logged as an annual, which does reset the annual.

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

drseti wrote: with negligible extra effort the 100 hour can also be logged as an annual, which does reset the annual.

Exactly. An annual resets an annual. A 100 hour does not reset an annual. Doing a 100 hour and adding enough extra to make it an annual is doing an annual [b[NOT[/b] a 100 hour.

So, if one flies 100 hours in 6 months or less, then do a 100 hour. If one flies less than 100 hours in six months, never do a 100 hour inspection, only do an annual. Fewest inspections and thus cheapest.

Example.
Pilot flies 12.5 hours per month. 100 hour is due in month 8. If you do a 100 hour in 8 you have to do an annual in month 12. Next year same thing, so in two years you've flown 300 hours and had 2 100 hour and 2 annual inspections.
Same pilot flies same hours but when the 100 hour is due in month 8 he just gets an annual. 8 months later he has another 100 hours (month 16) and gets another annual. Another 8 months and he is at month 24 and gets another annual. Two years of flying, 300 hours and 3 annual inspections.

Surely 3 annuals is cheaper than 2 annuals and 2 100 hours?

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

jnmeade wrote: So, if one flies 100 hours in 6 months or less, then do a 100 hour. If one flies less than 100 hours in six months, never do a 100 hour inspection, only do an annual. Fewest inspections and thus cheapest.

This only works if you can accurately predict how much you will fly in the next six months. Because of business cycles and weather variables, it's very hard to know what my future use will be. Thus, every time either an annual or a 100 hour comes due, I perform and log both at the same time -- that way, no matter what future hours look like, I'm current for the next 12 calendar months and 100 Hobbs hours. And it costs no more to do this.

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

drseti wrote: Thus, every time either an annual or a 100 hour comes due, I perform and log both at the same time -- that way, no matter what future hours look like, I'm current for the next 12 calendar months and 100 Hobbs hours. And it costs no more to do this.

Are you saying that an annual does not include a 100 hour inspection? That doing an annual does not constitute doing a 100 hour?

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

jnmeade wrote: Are you saying that an annual does not include a 100 hour inspection?

An annual includes all the items required for a 100 hour inspection, but as I understand the FARs, it does not count as a 100 hour unless the AMT specifically states in the logbook entry that a 100 hour condition inspection has been satisfied. If it's not signed off as a hundred hour, it doesn't count as one, no matter what was actually done.

Quote: That doing an annual does not constitute doing a 100 hour?

An annual consists of everything required in a 100 hour inspection, plus a couple of extra items. Again, even if all the items are done, it doesn't count as either a 100 hour or an annual inspection unless the logbook entry explicitly states so.

In order to cover both bases, my logbook entries read, in part: "Completed a 100 hour and annual condition inspection on [make, model, s/n, registration of acft here] in accordance with [cite the particular maintenance manual and page here] on [date here] at [Hobbs meter hours here] ... signed [AMT certificate type and number]..."

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

What you are doing is what I assumed - that an annual includes a 100 hour. The fact that an extra entry has to be made is important but doesn't change the actual work done.