Sport Pilot Talk

N918KT

HYPOTHETICALLY:

If I had to choose a simple classic LSA it may be a Piper PA-17 Vagabond. But I want a Vagabond with a nose wheel (tricycle gear), electric start, electrical system, a single comm built-in radio, some simple instruments and a 50 hp engine. Does this kind of PA-17 Vagabond exist? If this kind of plane exist, it would be a replica of a Cessna 150 only way simpler. If it doesn't exist, can I convert it and install the equipment that I want to have?

bshort · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Ca

There are some supposedly with optional electrical systems and radios, but never seen a tricycle gear. Since it is a certified aircraft, it is what it is and you cannot modify it to your taste.

There are some s-lsa, like cub crafters, where you can get that same style with all the options you desire.

I know what you're getting at...pick up a cheap as dirt Cub and modernize it with the latest gadgets and have a kick ass plane with little investment. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Unless you want to fly an un-airworthy aircraft around and take your chances with the faa fuzz.

N918KT · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:23 am Post subject:

So, if I can't make these changes by myself, do I have to take the plane to a A&P airplane mechanic and he will do those changes for me?

I'm not trying to make it an airplane with a glass panel. There are some characteristics of classic airplanes that I don't like, such as no elecrtical system, no electric starters, and no built-in radio. I have a love-hate relationship with simplicity. Don't want a plane too simple but at the same time I like simplicity somewhat. I usually prefer a trigear plane but it I can't, then a tailwheel will do fine maybe, as long as I can easily see out the dashboard when taxiing and don't have to turn the plane to the side to see it when taxiing.

Cub flyer · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 593

Kevin, Come to 76N and fly with me once. We're just west of Wilkes Barre PA, Skyhaven Airport. There are a couple Vagabonds on the field and one I am rebuilding. Two are PA-15 and one PA-17. I also have a Piper PA-11 with electric start, radio and sometimes tricycle gear.

The tricycle gear is a Testerman conversion done in the 1950's and not a STC. it's listed on the J-3 PA-11 type certificate data sheet. We usually switch over from tailwheel to tricycle during the summer and switch back for winter. Takes about 4 hours.

In the Vagabond you can see better over the nose on the ground than a lot of tricycle gear airplanes. Also the PA-11 view from the front is great.
No S turns needed.

The stock vagabond is very limited on useful load. Adding more items will make matters worse. The PA-17 gross is 1150 lbs and the PA-15 gross is 1100 lbs. There is no way to up the gross on the PA-15 and it is more common than the 17. They are great little airplanes and fly wonderful when rigged correctly but need to be kept light. Mine had no electrics, dope finish and spartan interior with wood prop and one 12 gallon nose tank. EW was about 695 lb. I've seen others with 85 hp, lights, radios, extra tanks, wind generator, metal prop etc. EW was 850 lbs. 1100 gross. Not very useful.

If you want a tricycle gear version the next best thing would be a Carleson Sparrow XC or build a Wagabond with the modifications you would like.

The Carleson has some good features but I'm not sure the status of the company.

I've also been looking at the Bush Caddy but I have no experience with them.

I've thought of taking a Vagabond project as a homebuilt and replacing the 65 lycoming or Continental with a jabiru, nose gear, and battery. Sort of a minature Piper Colt.

Your cheapest and fastest way to get in the air is buy a nice condition Piper Colt and get a Private in it. You could probably do everything for about $20-22K total investment.

Come see us and I can put you in the airplanes to see first hand.
Charlie. 570-836-4800

NCPilot · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject:

You know, I actually wouldn't mind seeing a mini-Piper Colt as an LSA, I bet that aircraft would sell like hot cakes. :)

Cub flyer · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 593

That's what we are missing. Easy to fly, semi cute little airplane that is cheap, dirt simple and rugged. Runs on any gas, lands on any strip, Starts hot or cold, decent cabin room and baggage space, 6 hours fuel, OK useful load.

The Colt is a lot of fun, I used them for trainers from 1985 to 2006. It would outperform my current Beech Skipper trainer in every way. The skipper is more modern layout.

NCPilot · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject:

Cub flyer wrote: That's what we are missing. Easy to fly, semi cute little airplane that is cheap, dirt simple and rugged. Runs on any gas, lands on any strip, Starts hot or cold, decent cabin room and baggage space, 6 hours fuel, OK useful load.

The Colt is a lot of fun, I used them for trainers from 1985 to 2006. It would outperform my current Beech Skipper trainer in every way. The skipper is more modern layout.

Agreed!!! That is EXACTLY what the LSA market need. The aircraft should still come with a glass panel option, as well as a steam gauges option. Air cooled engine of course (Air cooled engines are simpler than water cooled), and can land at your local regional airport, or your friend's private landing strip that he has in his backyard.

Cub flyer · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 593

I got looking at the Bush Caddy this morning after seeing one for sale on Barnstormers. It interests me. There are some things I'd like to see different but I might take a trip to Quebec this summer to check them out.
.

Here's the AD.

http://www.barnstormers.com/Light-Sport,%20BushCaddy%20Classifieds.htm

Here's a building log. I like not using tube wings spars.

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=marin&project=306&category=2435&log=38092&row=28

NCPilot · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject:

Cub flyer wrote: I got looking at the Bush Caddy this morning after seeing one for sale on Barnstormers. It interests me. There are some things I'd like to see different but I might take a trip to Quebec this summer to check them out.
.

Here's the AD.

http://www.barnstormers.com/Light-Sport,%20BushCaddy%20Classifieds.htm

Here's a building log. I like not using tube wings spars.

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=marin&project=306&category=2435&log=38092&row=28

Ehh the only thing I don't like about the Bush Caddy is that joystick between the two seats. I'd rather have a joystick between my legs.

Cub flyer · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 593

That was one of my hangups too. I'd have to fly one to see. It's a pain to climb over the sticks in the vagabond all the time so I might like it.

I guess it's a fashionable sidestick depending on how you look at it.

It may be better for dual instruction because your student could feel directly what inputs you are giving.

I'd rather tandem seating most of the time.

Add up the Cont 65 weight compared to a jabiru weight, battery and nose gear for a vagabond conversion.