Sport Pilot Talk

Aerco · Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Posts: 68 Location: Corona CA

For those still studying or getting additional ratings - I'm sure many of you have heard that the FAA is revising and expanding its entire pool of questions. Supposedly from around 15,000 to over 100,000 questions. So far only the ATP and Fundamentals of Instruction tests have been affected but others will follow in short order. There has already been an outcry when FOI students came out with scores in the 70s instead of the 90s as they expected, seeing questions they did not recognize. I have heard from many individuals doing a variety of tests that they already have come across many questions they had never seen before.

This will affect Sport Pilot students too I am sure. I have noticed some questions I had not sen before ont eh Sport Pilot Instructor test, too.

Now I am working my way through the requirements for my Instrument Rating, using the usual method of following a course designed to get you through the written tests - King, Gleim, Sporty's all follow a similar structure. I understand the FAA's motive and actually agree with it to some extent - you should not pass the test on rote memorization, but through knowing the material, but following these courses a certain amount of conditioned response does build up in the user; you learn to recognize questions and the corresponding answers and when you see something new, it kind of throws you a little. I can see how subtle changes in the questions could really confuse an applicant. This type of preparatory course may well have to change fundamentally soon, if this comes to pass.

And yes, I too have memorized certain of the more inane questions, such as which way to turn a button to adjust an RMI to center the display - I have never even seen or used a real RMI and if turning the button one way gives me the wrong indication, well then, duh - I'll turn it the other way. If the FAA does not want people to memorize stuff, perhaps revising some of the questions and bringing them up to date would help. Or acknowledging that the E6B has had its day. I personally I love playing with the thing, but I do not know one pilot who has ever used one for real after passing their test. I look at getting the written tests out of the way as a necessary evil; after that I can actually learn the real and necessary stuff. Perhaps not the attitude the FAA would like to see, but that is what the nature of these exams have produced over the years.

But then again - has this testing method over the last 30+ years caused real and measurable problems, that the FAA has to revise the whole process?

Comments?

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

Don't get me started! Oh, too late...

Speaking as an educator, I have never seen any educational value whatever to the multiple-choice test, selecting among three options, with a 70% score deemed a pass. Nor do I believe the knowledge test in its present form (even with a new question bank) in any way enhances safety. At its best, it helps to select for people capable of memorization (an arguably useful skill for pilots). At its worst, it causes a good many otherwise fine pilots to waste time and money, and eventually to give up.

That said, if we train for understanding rather than memorization, I don't see how a whole new pool of questions can hurt us. Someone who truly understands the material can easily eliminate two out of three options, correctly, seventy percent of the time. So, consider the written a meaningless hoop through which the student is required to jump, after which the student can work with his or her instructor to prepare for the only test that really matters -- the practical test. I've always believed one can tell more about a candidate's suitability to serve as PIC from an oral exam than by evaluating his or her multiple-choice score.

As the HTML coders say, </rant>.

bryancobb · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: Sails are Deflating

The FAA is helping the economic situation around the world take the wind out of the sails of general aviation if you ask me.

RyanShort1 · Joined: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 101 Location: San Antonio, TX

bryancobb wrote: The FAA is helping the economic situation around the world take the wind out of the sails of general aviation if you ask me.
This. It's silliness. It's going to take a LOT more effort to get a student done, and a LOT more studying of stuff that frankly, the students will likely never use again.

Ryan

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

I agree the tests are bad and changing them may not help much.

The FAA has to give some kind of a test to cover their own rear. They feel like the answers are being memorized now. They're right. Changing the questions won't help prove anyone knows any more.

Some say they ought to add some GPS questions. Which GPS? Some say don't test on ADF, but some airplanes have them as some have RMI. My 210 had an RMI. Does the FAA let them fly an airplane with instruments they don't understand? When the pilot gets the license, they can fly any avionics. Maybe the FAA should have specialized tests or endorsements so you have to be formally checked out on every plane.

It's a bad deal, but many other methods would be worse.

bshort · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Ca

Lot more questions to memorize, that is all. Let's face it...most study the question bank over and over only memorizing the correct answers. I did. I passed with a 90, only due to memorization. I understand the material now, but not nearly as goood as I should have during test time. If I had, new questions wouldn't have phased me. The doc is right.

Paul Hamilton · Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 351 Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada

There have been a few new questions added to the pool but there is no "big scare" and the big numbers quoted I have heard is not correct.

If you have a proper ground school and you study for the test you will be fine. Here is my take on ground school:

http://sport-pilot-training.com/category/ground-school-for-sport-pilots-learning-to-fly/

majorlyannoyed · Joined: 16 May 2011 Posts: 16 Location: 2W6

Hate to bump an aging thread, but does the SP test have questions about navigational radios and CDIs and such?

Took a 30 hour, instructor led, ground school course (ppl) that went into this stuff. As the LSAs I fly only have GPS, there's no way to get a practical understanding of VOR navigation.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

majorlyannoyed wrote: does the SP test have questions about navigational radios and CDIs and such?

Intercepting and tracking VOR radials is an item on the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards, but not in the Sport Pilot PTS. Therefore, VOR navigation is not typically taught in Sport Pilot curricula, and is definitely not included in the practical test. As for the knowledge test, I can't say for sure what questions the FAA may throw in, but it's highly unlikely that they would include anything not in the PTS.

Paul Hamilton · Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 351 Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada

No, ---- radio navigation is not part of the sport pilot knowledge test. It is easiest to simply get the FAA update questions with the Prepware CD which has the specific differences/questions for the sport pilot.
Differences in Private verses sport is at:
http://sport-pilot-training.com/private-pilot/
Updated questions and a guaranteed “pass” for the knowledge test is at:
http://www.ap-stores.com/p-51-prepware-sport-pilot-software.aspx
Call me if there are any more questions not listed on these web sites 775 772 8232.
Best,
Paul

Paul Hamilton · Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 351 Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada

It should be noted that the FOI test questions have been significantly updated and they are NOT available from the FAA. This is a problem for the FOI test (CFI applicants not sport pilots).

So any commercial test prep for the CFI is not a guarantee to pass the test any more.

Stay tuned.

High Altitude · Joined: 20 Jun 2009 Posts: 22

I took the sport pilot airplane knowledge test almost two weeks ago using the ASA testprep software to prepare and there where only two questions out of the 40 that weren't in the material. I scored a 100% so most likely the two questions where not actual test questions being scored. All other questions where right out of the study material.

Don't worry about the knowledge test, it is very simple. Go through your prep material and you will be good to go.

ibgarrett · Joined: 04 Dec 2008 Posts: 147 Location: Westminster, CO

High - what platform was the ASA testprep that you used? I'm looking at getting something for the Private Pilot upgrade and am really disenchanted with what I've found so far.

RyanShort1 · Joined: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 101 Location: San Antonio, TX

Aerco wrote: Or acknowledging that the E6B has had its day. I personally I love playing with the thing, but I do not know one pilot who has ever used one for real after passing their test.

Comments?
Um, yeah, the E6B is STILL a useful tool if you take the time to learn it. I have used it for real, and carry it around with me. Every once in a while I pull it out just for fun with a student, or to make a quick estimate when flying with just a map and compass.

Ryan

majorlyannoyed · Joined: 16 May 2011 Posts: 16 Location: 2W6

Wow, thanks for all the responses; I feel much more confident, as that was the only area dogging me. I'd still like to learn it (in case I ever want to go PPL), but it's good to know it's not an immediate hurdle.