Sport Pilot Talk

N918KT

I looked up the regs and it says sport pilots don't get a rating once they pass their checkride-they are given endorsements.

So hypothetically, if I get a sport pilot license with an airplane endorsement, can I call myself Sport Pilot ASEL, SPASEL, or Sport Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land?

bryancobb · Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: Just

Just say "I have a Sport Pilot License in Airplanes."

Helen · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Maryland

The answer to that would be sometimes yes, sometimes no. Under most circumstances sport pilots are considered as having endorsements, not ratings however, for the purposes of a flight review (61.56) you will notice that a person must take their BFR is an aircraft in which she is rated. For that purpose a sport pilot is considered as having a rating.

Helen

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

N918KT wrote: if I get a sport pilot license with an airplane endorsement, can I call myself Sport Pilot ASEL, SPASEL, or Sport Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land?

First off, for Sport Pilots, the Single Engine designation is redundant, since all LSAs must, by regulation, have at most a single reciprocating engine.

As for flight reviews, you are required to take one in a category and class of aircraft for which you are rated. The categories in which a Sport Pilot can be endorsed include airplane, seaplane, glider, rotorcraft, powered parachute, weight shift, and lighter than air. The only classes that apply for Sport Pilots include S-LSA, E-LSA, and Sport Pilot Eligible Aircraft (a certified aircraft that meets the LSA restrictions). So, your license merely says Sport Pilot, and your endorsements define the category for which you are qualified.

N918KT · Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject:

I see.

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

drseti wrote: The categories in which a Sport Pilot can be endorsed include airplane, seaplane, glider, rotorcraft, powered parachute, weight shift, and lighter than air.

Seaplane is not included as a category in any of the FARs I've seen.

Quote: The only classes that apply for Sport Pilots include S-LSA, E-LSA, and Sport Pilot Eligible Aircraft (a certified aircraft that meets the LSA restrictions).

Can you give an FAR citation for this definition of class as regards sport pilot certifications, please?

bryancobb · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:30 am Post subject: Your Challenge

I think your "challenge" for Paul to cite the FAR, is rhetorical. You know he won't be able to find one.

The old reg's (prior to Sport Rules) which missed the boat on rewording when the Sport Rules were created, don't mix well with the Sport rules. It's like vinegar and oil.

Fact is ... these are the only CATEGORIES called out in the FAR's:
Airplane, Glider, Rotorcraft, Lighter than air, Powered lift, Powered Parachute, Weight-shift-control.

Here's a list of what I would say is in the "SPIRIT" of the OLD FAR, as it applies to Sport Pilots. You won't find this in the FAR's but it makes sense because the intent of the old FAR is to NOT allow any flight in an aircraft the pilot is nieher rated nor qualified in, to count as a Flight Review.

90% of all Sport Pilots will take a Flight Review in (Category/Class):
* Airplane/Tailwheel
* Airplane/Tricycle
* Airplane/Floatplane
* Airplane/Amphibious
* Airplane/Flying Boat
(Airplanes will either be >87 or <87)
* Rotorcraft/Gyrocopter
* Powered Parachute
* Weight Shift Control

Feel free to make any comments since this is not in black and white in the REG's.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

Bryan's vinegar and oil analogy is certainly apt. The LSA FARs are still a work in progress, even after almost seven years. Truth is, most of what we CFIs know about SP and LSA we get from discussion forums such as this one -- plus our CFI refresher clinics, letters of interpretation from FAA, calls to our local FSDO, and emails/phone calls with the Light Sport branch. If there were more lawyers in the FAA, we'd either have clearer FARs, or there would be no more GA as we know it. Take your pick!

N918KT

Changing topics, if a CFI is both a CFI and a Sport Pilot CFI, would I get CFI instruction since that's the higher rating instead of CFI-SP? If I get sport pilot instruction from a CFI/CFI-SP, would my hours count towards a PPL since in reality that instructor has a higher instructor rating of CFI?

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

N918KT wrote: if a CFI is both a CFI and a Sport Pilot CFI,

I don't really see how that's possible, Kevin. As I understand it, one can be a CFI under either FAR 61 subpart H (the traditional CFI), or FAR 61 subpart K (the sport CFI). I don't see how one could be both, any more than I can be both a Private Pilot and a Commercial Pilot. The higher rating automatically overrides the lower one.

That said, any subpart H CFI can give instruction in an LSA, toward the Sport Pilot license. That training all counts toward higher ratings. Any subpart K CFI can give instruction in an LSA, toward the Sport Pilot license, but that training does not presently count toward higher ratings. (Many of us are hoping to change that, but the gears grind slowly at the FAA.)

(Meade, please don't ask me for the FAR citation on the above. I'm sure there is one, and I could find it if I weren't booked solid with students today! :lol: )

bryancobb · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: Either -- Or

You are either a Subpart H instructor, ORRRRR a Subpart K instructor, NOT BOTH.

A student of a Subpart K (SPORT) instructor cannot count DUAL hours for PVT.

A student of a Subpart H (PVT & ABOVE) instructor can count DUAL hours for PVT.

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

drseti wrote: The LSA FARs are still a work in progress, even after almost seven years. Truth is, most of what we CFIs know about SP and LSA we get from discussion forums such as this one -- plus our CFI refresher clinics, letters of interpretation from FAA, calls to our local FSDO, and emails/phone calls with the Light Sport branch.!

Paul,

I hope my interest in specifics isn't interpreted to mean I am "challenging" you or trying to stir up trouble.

I'm a new kid on the block in this forum. I'm looking for answers to questions about sport pilot privileges and the general field of SP and LSA as that is the route I am going.

I have over 3,000 hours logged, including about 1100 hours of instruction given, mostly primary in C150s and C172s but some multi-engine and some glider. My flight experience is mostly ASEL, but I am rated in ASES, AMEL and gliders. Most of my multi-time is flying charter in the little Citations but I have a few hundred hours in King Air and in Cessna 401s. I put over 200 hours on my T210M last year, nearly all of it on long trips filed IFR.

Hopefully, this background will give you the perspective that I'm used to looking in regs for answers, so when I see things that don't seem to jibe with my understanding, I don't think it is "challenging" to ask a person for the citation.

I completely agree with your observation that a lot of what we learn in a "new" field like SP and LSA is from forums such as this one and it is probably incumbent on us to develop an answer as well as we can so that new posters such as the OP get the best answer possible. And the older pilots like myself get the full picture, too. I'm sure I'm like many of the rest of you - learning the regs sometimes brings an "aha" moment when I find I'm misunderstood or misinterpreted something.

I have to go for now, as I'm getting ready to get my glider conditional inspection done, but I'll try to get back to this topic tonight or tomorrow and explore the concept of category and class a little more. My own feeling is a lot of it is mixed up in definitions and how we use words such as "rating".

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

jnmeade wrote: I hope my interest in specifics isn't interpreted to mean I am "challenging" you or trying to stir up trouble.

Not at all, Meade. I enjoy the dialog.

Quote: I'm a new kid on the block in this forum. I'm looking for answers to questions about sport pilot privileges and the general field of SP and LSA as that is the route I am going.

I asked a lot of questions here when I started the transition to LSA about two years ago. Got lots of great answers!

Quote: I have over 3,000 hours logged, including about 1100 hours of instruction given, mostly primary in C150s and C172s

My background was similar when I downsized. You'll find that SP instruction is a different animal completely from what you're used to.

Quote: I put over 200 hours on my T210M last year, nearly all of it on long trips filed IFR.

That's rather like my last year owning the Beechcraft, before I let the medical lapse following bypass surgery. (I have a little time in the turbo 210 myself. They're a sweet airplane, but can be a handful.)

Luck with the glider inspection. See you around the forum. Glad to have you aboard.

garbageman · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:08 am Post subject:

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but my "license" the one with Orvil and Wilber on the back, says under "IX Has been found....the privileges of" SPORT PILOT. On the back it says " RATINGS Sport Pilot", and "XIII Limitations Sport Endorsement(s) Airplane Single Engine Land".

From that, I have a rating of SP, with an endorsement of ASEL.

I believe the FAA started doing this in mid 2010.

David

bryancobb · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:25 am Post subject:

garbageman wrote: I don't want to beat a dead horse, but my "license" the one with Orvil and Wilber on the back, says under "IX Has been found....the privileges of" SPORT PILOT. On the back it says " RATINGS Sport Pilot", and "XIII Limitations Sport Endorsement(s) Airplane Single Engine Land".

From that, I have a rating of SP, with an endorsement of ASEL.

I believe the FAA started doing this in mid 2010.

David

Good example of OIL & VINEGAR.