Sport Pilot Talk

NCPilot · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject: Night time flying

What is the thinking behind the no night time flying? I mean VFR night time flying is no more dangerous than day time VFR. Is there any hint that the FAA will amend the rules to allow Sports Pilot to get night time endorsement?

pjcampbell · Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Bergen County, NJ

Quote: I mean VFR night time flying is no more dangerous than day time VFR

Just my opinion, this is not true. and is exactly the thinking behind it.

Helen · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Maryland

Quote:
Just my opinion, this is not true. and is exactly the thinking behind it.

Agreed. Because of such, the US is one of the few countries where one night privileges are included in the PPL. It is a separate rating in Canada and prohibited all together under VFR in Mexico.

Helen

Pawlander · Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 51 Location: Pawleys Island, SC

Your options for a forced landing at night are sharply limited compared to day VFR. In an engine-out situation, you'd better be hoping you are right above an airport or a well lighted interstate without too much traffic and no overpasses or overhead powerlines.

The Sport Pilot rules also require that you maintain visual reference to the ground for similar reasons (no VFR on top).

Another layer of proficiency and experience flying solely by reference to instruments can make a difference in those situations where landmarks on the ground are unavailable. Whether due to a sparsely populated area or an intervening cloud layer, the ability to find a safe place to put it down is significantly diminished at night or when you don't have ground reference.

NCPilot · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject:

Pawlander wrote: Your options for a forced landing at night are sharply limited compared to day VFR. In an engine-out situation, you'd better be hoping you are right above an airport or a well lighted interstate without too much traffic and no overpasses or overhead powerlines.

The Sport Pilot rules also require that you maintain visual reference to the ground for similar reasons (no VFR on top).

Another layer of proficiency and experience flying solely by reference to instruments can make a difference in those situations where landmarks on the ground are unavailable. Whether due to a sparsely populated area or an intervening cloud layer, the ability to find a safe place to put it down is significantly diminished at night or when you don't have ground reference.

Shouldn't put down spots be planned out ahead of time? I may be over-preparing but whenever I plan out a route, i'd like to take a moment and look at all the possible place I could put down my aircraft if I have to.

jnmeade · Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 144 Location: Iowa

It's always a good idea to recon the route and have some landing spots ID'd.

Also, keep in mind that night time starts at evening civil twilight and ends at morning civil twilight (about 30 minutes after/before sunset/sunrise). But, you have to have lights between those times and sundown/sunrise.

ArionAv8or · Joined: 20 Mar 2010 Posts: 271

I also agree that night time VFR is much more dangerous than day time VFR. The inability to clearly see the terrain makes a huge difference in an emergency situation.

With that said, I have said before that I wish they would offer the ability to gain an endorsement for night flight. I would think 5 - 10 hours of training would cover it with say 3 night flights and 10 TO and landings. That is definitely something I would consider if offered, although I don't think it will ever happen.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

ArionAv8or wrote: I wish they would offer the ability to gain an endorsement for night flight.

Not likely to happen, unfortunately. Consider that there are a good many Pvt, Comml, and even ATP pilots out there with lapsed medicals, now exercising Sport Pilot privileges. These folks certainly had night training (so no endorsement would apply), and may have thousands of hours of night PIC experience -- yet, they are still banned from night flight. I think the FAA's intent is very clear. :cry:

NCPilot · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:41 am Post subject:

drseti wrote: ArionAv8or wrote: I wish they would offer the ability to gain an endorsement for night flight.

Not likely to happen, unfortunately. Consider that there are a good many Pvt, Comml, and even ATP pilots out there with lapsed medicals, now exercising Sport Pilot privileges. These folks certainly had night training (so no endorsement would apply), and may have thousands of hours of night PIC experience -- yet, they are still banned from night flight. I think the FAA's intent is very clear. :cry:

Of course, they gotta have something to make people get the PPL, and I guess night flying is it. Because if SP can fly at night, then it's pretty much like PPL, but without the 3rd class medical.

ArionAv8or · Joined: 20 Mar 2010 Posts: 271

NCPilot wrote: drseti wrote: ArionAv8or wrote: I wish they would offer the ability to gain an endorsement for night flight.

Not likely to happen, unfortunately. Consider that there are a good many Pvt, Comml, and even ATP pilots out there with lapsed medicals, now exercising Sport Pilot privileges. These folks certainly had night training (so no endorsement would apply), and may have thousands of hours of night PIC experience -- yet, they are still banned from night flight. I think the FAA's intent is very clear. :cry:

Of course, they gotta have something to make people get the PPL, and I guess night flying is it. Because if SP can fly at night, then it's pretty much like PPL, but without the 3rd class medical.

The PPLs can have the heavier, faster planes that carry more ppl and fly higher than us. Just give us the night and they can keep the rest, LOL

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

I know there is a natural tendency to want what you can't have but night flying isn't a big difference maker. There is a much higher risk with a small reward. Go for your PP if you want it.

As a PP, I have flown a bit at night and even did all of my instrument training at night. It fit my schedule and I figured it would make me a better pilot. Before letting my medical lapse a few months back, I took a look at my logbook and discovered I flew about 5% at night. Most GA PP pilots fall in this range or less. Its not something I miss or really constrains me.

I'd rather have VFR on top :D

When the days are short you might be tempted but this means it's winter and an off airport landing at night in the winter is something I'd rather not do anyway. Summertime has lots of daylight to fly so night flying is not really limiting you.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

dstclair wrote: I took a look at my logbook and discovered I flew about 5% at night.

Interesting. I just looked at my logbook, and for me it was 4%. So (for us, at least), giving up night flying was no particular loss.

bryancobb · Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: Eyes

The main reason that the FAA will NEVER let any medically self-certified pilot fly at night is...

Because of aeromedical factors.

The health of the eyes and otolith organs must be determined for a pilot to be allowed to go up in the dark where it is almost like being IFR, even in VFR conditions. Having a driver's license is NOT enough.

VFR Collision avoidance at night is much more difficult. Your night vision is your only line of defense. Avoiding flying into clouds is much more difficult.
It's much easier to get in an unusual attitude because there's very few visual cues and your oto's are trying to trick you.

zdc · Guest

bryancobb wrote: The main reason that the FAA will NEVER let any medically self-certified pilot fly at night is...

Because of aeromedical factors.

The health of the eyes and otolith organs must be determined for a pilot to be allowed to go up in the dark where it is almost like being IFR, even in VFR conditions. Having a driver's license is NOT enough.

VFR Collision avoidance at night is much more difficult. Your night vision is your only line of defense. Avoiding flying into clouds is much more difficult.
It's much easier to get in an unusual attitude because there's very few visual cues and your oto's are trying to trick you.

Agree with everything you wrote except "VFR collision at night is much more difficult." I think collision avoidance is actually much easier at night. Aircraft you don't notice during the day are much easier to pick out at night because of the acft lighting.

Targetbuster · Guest Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 36 Location: Sultan wa

drseti wrote: dstclair wrote: I took a look at my logbook and discovered I flew about 5% at night.

Interesting. I just looked at my logbook, and for me it was 4%. So (for us, at least), giving up night flying was no particular loss.

I reviewed this subject alot when trying to decide whether or not the SP license or the PPL was the way to go. Having no night flying experience (other than with private pilots who are friends) the thought and reality of night flying held absolutely no appeal for me at all. So even though I had lots of dual hours with appropriately certified instructors the PPL really never fulfilled anything for me that the SPL didn't. Having said all that, my feeling (with what little experience I've had with night flying) is that they can have it. It seemed skeery to me. :)