Sport Pilot Talk

theoarno · Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Texas

Here ia an article involving LSA.

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/03/07/police-to-use-lsa-for-patrol/

zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 256 Location: Albuquerque, NM

I hope they have the payload reserve for all the cop stuff, so that they can loiter a few hours.

bshort · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Ca

Several agencies use ppc's for patrol duties, so not really the first sport aircraft. Maybe the first fixed wing s-lsa. With full fuel, the camera system (to most likely include flir), additional radio, and a pair of deputies, that will be pushing 1320+.

goinaround · Joined: 18 Apr 2010 Posts: 68

I don't quite understand how these lsa can be used for law enforcement, some with officers that only have sport pilot ratings yet the lsa cannot be used for aerial photography or glider towing.
more of the gov't do as I say...

bshort · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Ca

From the article, I gathered that the pilot was a PP. Therefore, he/she can still fly as a private pilot would up to the limitations of the aircraft. Also, public use can often lead to fudging the fars....altitude, weight, equipment, and other rules.

3Dreaming · Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 301 Location: noble, IL USA

As a government registered vehicle they may be playing under different rules. I don't know how far it trickles down, but some government agencies don't have to follow the CFR's.

bshort · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Ca

In theory, public use doesn't even require certification. Not a good policy for potential liability, but non the less, not required.

theoarno · Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Texas

zaitcev wrote: I hope they have the payload reserve for all the cop stuff, so that they can loiter a few hours.
I just hope they are a little bit trimmer than the Motorcycle Police we see here in Austin. Otherwise they won't have room for fuel.

tadel001 · Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Posts: 251

This is a good source of info on LSA in law enforcement. www.justnet.org/aviation

A public entity (sheriff's office) does not need a civil airworthiness or civil airman certificiate when flying for a public mission (sheriff's duty). Therefore, an LSA can be used by a law enforcement entity as it is not restricted to the airworthiness cert. Similiarly, the pilot is not restricted to his SP ticket (if that is what he used).

Yes, we have been using LSAs in law enforcement since 2006 (starting with PPC and moving to S-LSA fixed wing). We are now looking at gyroplanes. Given the low cost of acquistion and low cost of operating, it makes a lot more sense than a $12M helicopter for a lot of the missions.

zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 256 Location: Albuquerque, NM

Are there any missions involving hovering?

And on the other hand, if you just use CTLS as a glorified attachment point for FLIR, why not switch to a UAV?

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

zaitcev wrote: why not switch to a UAV?

Have you ever flown one? Not nearly as much fun! :wink:

tadel001 · Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Posts: 251

Actually, I fly both. To answer your question about why UAV over manned aircraft would take a while. Basically, due to regulatory issues the UAS are not as practical. Moreover, the cost of a UAV with a camera similar to what we put on the LSAs would cost substantially more than an LSA.

goinaround · Joined: 18 Apr 2010 Posts: 68

Anything the gov't (local state or fed)can do by any means necessary in order to invade our privacy and confiscate our assets (fines) and to justify their existence. It certainly ain't about public safety or our borders would be secure. Just my 2cents(nonsense)

tadel001 · Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Posts: 251

I think the "invasion of privacy" argument is generally thrown around by media, movies, and the uniformed. Understanding the use of these aircraft and their capabilities would make for a much more informed discussion on privacy rights, etc.

I do find it interesting that people complain about invasion of privacy by law enforcement from the sky but rarely do you hear about the independent pilot. At least law enforcement has restriction on the way they can use pictures/video obtained from the sky. Others can just post it on the internet, sell it for profit or use it to slander someone.

The reality is that the LSA and UAS aircraft used by law enforcement are used to either provide situational awareness during an incident, search and rescue (project lifesaver), or aerial photography of critical infrastructure (schools, prisons, shopping malls, stadiums) to be used for reference in the event of a critical incident.

These aircraft (and the cameras equipped on them) are not (and really aren't that capable) of "spying" on people by taking pictures of their activities in their backyard. From 3,000' the quality of the video can tell there is a person in the backyard and maybe tell if they are black, white, etc. but can't tell any facial features, cloth descriptions or what is in their hand.

I wouldn't discourage law enforcement aviation through LSAs due to fears of invasion of privacy. You could take away a very valuable resource based on wrong assumptions.

bshort · Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 59 Location: Ca

I was pushing the "ppc for patrol" idea around for awhile, but the wind is always blowing some out here. Then, I migrated to a Challenger II and now on to a Rans S-6. Don't know if it will ever happen, but I'm still looking.