Sport Pilot Talk

Hambone · Joined: 07 Jan 2011 Posts: 67 Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE

Part of the appeal to flying for me would be cross-country touring. I like the idea of spending a week or two travelling around the country, seeing new places from the air, meeting new people.

But perhaps I'm seeing it through rose-colored glasses. What are the realities of cross-country LSA flying? One that springs to mind is how we get around once we land. Another is securing the aircraft against the elements (and people). And where to stay overnight (all on a budget). What to do when the weather craps out and I can't get back to work.

Is LSA touring feasible? Fun? Not all it's cracked up to be? I'd love to read some of your recommendations and experiences... both good and bad!

deltafox · Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 89

Is LSA touring feasible? Define feasible. Spending a week flying in the Northeast this time of year is probably not possible, let alone feasible. So, as with all GA weather is the primary factor. LSA is "LIGHT" Sport, so what you take along with you is another factor. I flew my PiperSport from Fort Pierce to Atlanta to Philadelphia vicinity last December with my wife. It was fun.

rfane · Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 214 Location: Sunnyvale, CA

I flew my CT from coast to coast and back in December 2008. It can be done in 4 days if weather cooperates and you are in a hurry. I wasn't in a hurry and had a week of weather delays on the way home. That was during the time that New Orleans and Los Angeles were getting snow. It was an adventure, and I really enjoyed the trip.

The CT will hold a week's worth of luggage for two. Most Motel's have a laundry room for times when the trip is longer.

I know another couple in Florida that have taken their CTLS from Florida to San Diego and back at least twice.

Most FBO's have a crew car they will loan you to get lunch, or overnight if business is slow. Most will give you a ride to a motel, or call a taxi for you. Some motels also have airport shuttles, and most FBO's also have rental cars available, but you may need to reserve in advance.

The colored states on this map show where I have been in my LSA. I intend to take it to Alaska at some point.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

rfane wrote: I wasn't in a hurry and had a week of weather delays on the way home.

You've just defined GA, Roger. I haven't flown an LSA coast to coast and border to border (yet!), but have done so dozens of times in my old Beechcraft. That plane was equipped with top-or-the-line avionics and set up for serious IFR -- and there were still trips in which I had a week of weather delays!

Bottom line: the LSA will take me anywhere Son-of-a-Beech would, but 25% slower, at lower altitudes, VFR only, and with less luggage.

zaitcev · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 256 Location: Albuquerque, NM

drseti wrote: Bottom line: the LSA will take me anywhere Son-of-a-Beech would, but 25% slower, at lower altitudes, VFR only, and with less luggage.
But you have to pretend to take a vacation due to the prohibition on "furtherance of a business". Fortunately there are nice golfing resorts near my company's HQ.

LightSportFlyer · Joined: 10 Nov 2008 Posts: 64

Sure an LSA "can" but most of the pilots who own LSAs that I've spoken with use them mainly just for daily fun runs. Going up on nice days, pancake breakfast get togethers, sightseeing, or maybe a cross country around 300 - 400 hundred miles or so. Weather and load were the most commonly listed limiting factors.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

zaitcev wrote: But you have to pretend to take a vacation.

What do you mean, "pretend"? I'm retired, hence on permanent vacation! :wink:

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

LightSportFlyer wrote: mainly just for daily fun runs.

Well, sure -- "Sport" is the LSA's middle name!

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

Short answer is 'yes' an LSA can be a good cross-country touring plane. May have to have less baggage. Limiting factor is weather for VFR flying which is no different for any aircraft (if the pilot doesn't have their IFR rating). Airport logistics are the same no matter what you fly.

Funny thing is that when I got my instrument rating, I actually canceled more flights. Perhaps I just knew more than I did when a VFR only pilot.

My LSA fits me, my wife, 50lbs of stuff and 400nm range without refueling. This would easily allow us to do the mission described.

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

zaitcev wrote: drseti wrote: Bottom line: the LSA will take me anywhere Son-of-a-Beech would, but 25% slower, at lower altitudes, VFR only, and with less luggage.
But you have to pretend to take a vacation due to the prohibition on "furtherance of a business". Fortunately there are nice golfing resorts near my company's HQ.

Don't get this. There is no issue with a Sport Pilot flying an LSA that is incidental to the business. Using your ticket for what amounts to business travel has never been considered to be furtherance of a business.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

dstclair wrote: Using your ticket for what amounts to business travel has never been considered to be furtherance of a business.

This is a gray area, Dave. FAA's clearly stated intention was that Sport Pilots (or higher rated pilots exercising Sport Pilot privileges -- i.e., with lapsed medicals) not fly when under any scheduling pressure. The idea was that, if commuting to work, flying on a business trip, or carrying business associates to a meeting or business lunch, one might be under undue pressure to fly when grounding oneself was more prudent. The language they came up with, "in furtherance of any business activity," is ambiguous enough to allow enforcement action whenever the FAA felt the spirit of sport flying was being violated. They had to write an exception into the rules to allow flight schools to operate LSAs!

This is probably not an enforceable limitation, but I for one don't want to be the one to put it to the test.

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

Probably shouldn't have been that emphatic :D

We debated this in the fall and I found several similar FAA rulings that were consistent with simple commuting not being considered furtherance of a business. Of course the language is such that the FAA could enforce it either way.

I'd be comfortable flying to my Nashville office but a client visit might be interpreted differently.

Helen · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Maryland

LSA touring is the same as Cesnna touring, of which I do a lot. Let me try to address some of your questions and then I'll explain how I do it.

First, as for getting back to work, you have to work this out with the boss before you leave. It is neither practical nor safe to set a firm date to be any place in a light aircraft.

Second, for getting around, many airports have "courtesy cars" that you can take into town for a few hours.

Third, buy a "Claw" for tie down and never leave home without it.

When I plan a long trip I plan as straight line of a route as possible given large bodies of water, mountains, etc. I then go on AirNav and locate all cheap gas spots along the route and highlight those on my charts. I make an excelle spreadsheet that lists each airport and :

1. Name
2. Identifyer
3. Type and price of fuel
4. Hours of fuel availability
5. Does the airport take credit cards or just cash
6. Phone number
7. Resturant on the field
8. Crew car availability
9. If the town hotel will pick up at the airport
10. If I can camp at the airport (must have 24h restrooms in my book for such)
11. Other useful notes, such as free cookies at the FBO!

I then read through the comments on AirNav for each and fill in as much of this as possible and follow up with a phone call to confirm this info for each airport. On my spreadsheet I highlight the best sounding airports at approximately 300nm points along my route. (Since I fly cheap I look for cheap gas, camping, and a free car. With this flight planning, splitting fuel costs with a buddy, and volunteering at a booth in exchange for a entrance pass I did OSH for under $500 last year.) These are my planned stops but I have info on my spreadsheet for other cheap gas stops with facilities along my route if weather closes in.

I print out the spread sheet and put it in a 3 ring binder. Info such as hotel reservations or land maps, NOTAMs, DUATS route maps with TFRs, etc get clipped into the binder. If I'm going into an airshow my VFR sign gets slid into the front clear pocket on the binder to hold up for the flagmen. I then have a clear route, easy to type into my GPS with plenty of back up stops picked out all with cheap gas. As a final back up, I keep a hard copy of the AOPA aircraft directory under my seat. If engine trouble or weather should put me at some place totally unplanned, that has phone number for local hotels and cabs at where ever I am stuck.

Hope this helps.

Helen

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

Helen wrote: It is neither practical nor safe to set a firm date to be any place in a light aircraft

Well said, Helen. My personal Minimums Checklist includes this question: "On a scale of one to ten, how important is it for you to make this trip?" An answer of five or above requires automatic cancellation. If I still want to go, I drive, buy an airline ticket, or walk.

Jack Tyler

...just as when folks travel via roadways.

Your big issues, cost wise, will be ramp fees, overnight accommodations and meals (plus of course fuel, which will be a meaningful cost even in an LSA for cross-country touring).

To see how these can be minimized while adding lots of fun:
-- visit http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2009/091214aircampers.html?WT.mc_id=091218epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan for an intro to this new org
-- visit http://www.americanaircampers.net/ and view a few of the videos
-- while at SnF try to talk with a few folks in the plane campground who have actually done this kind of air camping (those Highlander builders I mentioned to you via PM would be a good source)

Just as when traveling by car, camping can be a good way to meet great people and reduce travel costs. However (there's always a 'however'...) this does suggest how important some LSA performance and stowage parameters can be. A number of the current crop of fixed wing LSA's at Sebring would not be able to manage the cargo loadout of a couple who wanted to fly 3 hr legs and hoped to pitch a tent and cook their meals in the evening. Moreover, the stowage areas were sometimes cramped or broken up into small segments that wouldn't work. The old adage once again applies: First define the mission...

BTW one of Helen's points works into this scheme nicely. Depart from the campground for the morning's flight, stop to fuel & (hopefully...) borrow the crew car to duck into town, where you can visit the local grocery and catch lunch. Then back to the plane for the afternoon flight and the next campground...or motel if it's time to splurge

If flying a metal a/c, for summer flying consider hangering the plane over night if there's a chance of T/S activity, which there almost always is in many parts of our country. One wicked hail storm will take a good deal of value off your plane.

FWIW the LSA I'm looking at will carry 2 180# crew, 4 hrs + of fuel, fly at/near 120 kts and handle 50# of luggage in a sizable bay. I think that's about as good as one can expect within the LSA class.

Jack