Sport Pilot Talk

eidolon45 · Joined: 25 Dec 2010 Posts: 56 Location: fairfax, va

Most of the S-LSA training planes at my light sport school have 2 throttles – one on the left, and one in the middle. They only have one flap switch which is near the middle throttle. My first instructor told me to use the left throttle which necessitated that I fly stick with my right hand. The middle throttle was reserved for his use “in case I got in trouble”. He told me I could switch after I got more experience if I desired.

I was working on landings when the first instructor had to bow out for medical problems. I continued to work with a 2d instructor (and occasionally a 3d) and was “very close” to solo (his words). Neither 2 nor 3 seemed to be concerned by the throttle/stick (left hand, right hand) configuration (although one of them did query me about it in the beginning). Then number 2 went out with a broken ankle.

Number 4 is an excellent instructor who has a knack for breaking down problems and helping you to work through them. He noticed the hand configuration early on and noted I had to do a lot of hand switching when I was adjusting flaps. He felt that was causing me to lose focus at critical times and contributing to some control problems. He offered to work with me using my right hand for stick, but cautioned that most conventional planes only have one (middle) throttle and most pilots fly stick with left hand. In looking at some of the Cessnas and other planes on the tarmac, I confirmed he was right and committed to making the switch.

Not as easy as it seems. My first few left hand stick landings were worse than my very first landing. Flying the pattern seemed smoother, but when it came to the round out and flare – Clear the runway! Bounced that sucker sky high. To be sure, I am finding that I am VERY right hand dominant. Apparently, over the decades, my brain has come to regard my left hand as merely a convenient hook to hold my brief case while my right unlocks the door. Very little fine motor control on the left.

To improve performance, it is clearly essential to build finer motor coordination with my left hand. For starters, I am now driving with my left hand and switching other activities over as well (tried computer mousing or brushing your teeth with the “other” hand lately?). If anyone has had problems or has suggestions to help in this area, I am all ears. I am also curious if anyone knows why some of the LSAs are now being built with 2d throttles (left side) if that is counter-productive to normal hand-stick configuration?

Daidalos · Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 137 Location: KHWV

Your instructor sounds unreasonable to me. I have flown several Tecnams with dual throttles as you describe and I always prefer using the center one with my right hand.

An instructor can always yell I've got it and take the throttle even push it in with your hand on it. You both have a control stick, what if you had a death grip on it? IMHO an instructor and student should always have a clear understanding of when the he or the instructor has control of the aircraft.

I would tell him in no uncertain terms how you feel and if he cannot agree with that then find a new instructor. It's your time, money and life.

Aerco · Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Posts: 68 Location: Corona CA

All my initial flying was learned with a stick in my right hand. When I learned to fly Cessnas I had the same difficulty. Not sure why this should be so since I drive mostly using my left hand and the right on the shifter (4 speed trans). What I found helped in the end was playing lots of computer games and flying flight simulators with left hand. (Note I said "flying" simulators, not "playing"! ) It is all about building new neural pathways and now it is just second nature. I go back and forth between Cubs and Cessnas and never even think about.

Jim Stewart · Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 259

I don't know your age, but if you are as old as me (pushing 60 hard) your brain gets hardwired to your limbs and it takes quite a while to develop new pathways. I'm right-handed and found the left hand stick disconcerting in the beginning. I'm also pretty close to ambidextrous. Try TIG welding if you ever want to find out how well both hands work together :D As time went on, the left stick started feeling normal.

What I really had a hard time with was getting my legs wired to my brain. It took a very long time before I didn't have to think about which rudder pedal to push.

eidolon45 · Joined: 25 Dec 2010 Posts: 56 Location: fairfax, va

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Yes I am in the 60s range too. I also had a tough time with the rudder pedals at first. Never drove ANYTHING with my feet before, except maybe a soap box car (and that didn't turn out well either.) If I can learn to steer with my feet, guess I can learn to "stick" with my left hand.

The first instructor is probably out of the picture for majority of my training. I didn't argue with him about which hand - didn't know any better. Assumed he was afraid I might freeze (which I'm not inclined to do, thankfully).

deltafox · Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 89

You may find this post interesting:

http://aviationmentor.blogspot.com/2011/01/flying-right-seat.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AviationMentor+%28Aviation+Mentor%29

It always takes a bit of time to go from one configuration to the next. Its different going from a stick to a yoke,( or the side stick in a Cirrus) or any of the numerous throttle configurations. It has always been doing the repetitions for me, becoming consistent each time around the pattern. After awhile it just becomes natural for either hand on the control.

chucky · Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:59 pm Post subject:

I already typed something like this but am unsure where it ended up.

I have a similar issue where the left hand just doesnt seem to be as co-ordinated as the right.

From my observation being a mechanic, I noticed, the single place aircraft i worked on with sticks, all had right hand stick left had throttle. the tandom aircraft with sticks. were the same. stick right hand throttle left. the side by side aircraft with yokes all had the engine controls in the center. Some of the side by side with stics had a secondary throttle, that in some cases was refered to as "Aerobatic throttle". The Diamond product line except the up and comming DJet which has a yoke, have sticks and the engine and flap controls are in the center. I have heard of a few pilots mention that the checkout in the DA 20 and DA40 took longer becaue there left hand didnt want to work. An interesting fact the DA 20 the USAF ueses has a reversed panel. the pilot flies from the right seat with there right hand, and uses there left hand for engine control etc because they are in the middle. probably to get the student use to the orintation of the jet fighter controls.

I also think that aircraft wtih packages such as the G1000, soon you will be able to move the displays around so you can fly from either left seat or right seat, with engine controls in the center. I once asked an ex Canadian Forces pilots why fighters are configured the way they are he just told me, most people are right handed its easier to fly with there right hand and its been like this sence the Wright flyers.

to sum it up. I dont think it should really matter especially if your aircraft has a throttle accessable to either hand, eventually you'll just get a rythm going and even if your hands are switching it wont matter that much. just my 2 cents..

Have Fun

C

eidolon45 · Joined: 25 Dec 2010 Posts: 56 Location: fairfax, va

thanks for all who replied with advice and encouragement. Seems like a lot of other pilots have had experience with this problem or similar ones. I guess the good news is, if I decide to go on and become a "right seater" CFI, I will have a leg -- er HAND up on the training since I was trained early on (correctly or not) to fly right hand stick!

David · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 54 Location: KPTW

I have flown a Remos and flew it Right and Left Handed. My Sport hornet is a tandem ELSA, but the joystick is a fighter style and is set up for right handed flight. So the throttle is left handed.

Bottom line it is what you are comfortable with.

Z06 C5 · Joined: 27 Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Location: Garland, TX

I learned to fly in a Remos with dual throttles. And flew with my right hand. Because thats what I read in Bill Kirschers book, and thats what fighter pilots do. "You fly a stick with your right hand, and a yoke with your left."

Well, when I switched aircraft. Had to use a ceter throttle, so stick with left hand and throttle with right. Lets just say that 1st lesson after swithcing hands was a little scary. We were also working on crosswind landings that day. So double whammy....... not real pretty landings. I bounced, I drifted, on one of them my CFI said " my flight controls". guess I scared the crap out of both of us.

But it gets better, it took me 6 lessons before I got comfortable flying with my left.. It just takes some time, hang in there, you can do it.

Best of luck, Robert Lewis

eidolon45 · Joined: 25 Dec 2010 Posts: 56 Location: fairfax, va

I didn't really want to hear it's probably gonna cost me another 800 - 900 dollars to change a habit an earlier instructor drilled into me. But that's kind of what I figured. Thanks for the encouragement. Sounds like my experience is not unusual. After that last bronco ride landing, I wanted to chuck my log book in the nearest trash recepticle and go buy a fresh one. But here I am, signed up for another lesson on Saturday! Guess I'm a slow learner in more ways than one:-)

Paul Hamilton · Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 351 Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada

Being a CFI you learn to use both. It does not matter it is just flying the airplane. But for a student learning, what you first learn usually sticks.

Please any one do not be offended with my opinion here, it is just another OPINION

For a pilot in the LH seat, I give each pilot the choice of right or left hand stick BUT.....

I highly encourage using the left hand to fly with the stick. How?

Here is the scenario:

We get into the aircraft and they usually say they prefer flying with the right hand. I say "I fly with my left hand because most of your work on the panel operating the transponder, radio, GPS, flaps, carb heat, switches, trim, etc... is on the RH side.

Hold the stick with the right hand and reach over to the boost pump and turn it on. Reach over to the GPS buttons. etc....".

Why?

For the “typical airplane” (there are plenty of exceptions), dual stick, throttles on the left and in the middle I do whatever I need to do to get the student to decide to fly with the left hand and operate the rest of the airplane including the throttle with the right. Yes the student and CFI are both operating the middle throttle . For a student that is right handed this makes sense because you are more coordinated operating all the other stuff in the airplane with the most coordinated hand. It is basic ergonomics.

NO WAY would I ever teach a student to fly in the left seat with the right hand and have to reach over, or even WORSE switch hands near the ground for takeoff or landing to operate the flaps or adjust anything. I personally think this is simply a dangerous distraction reaching over or switching in the heat of the moment, go around, engine failure, etc…...

All cockpits are different but using common sense with ergonomics should help you make this decision. You are looking for trouble if you are switching hands (to a hand that is not used to flying) or reaching over and operating the rest of the airplane with your hand that is less coordinated.

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

Paul Hamilton wrote: NO WAY would I ever teach a student to fly in the left seat with the right hand and have to reach over, or even WORSE switch hands near the ground for takeoff or landing to operate the flaps or adjust anything.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with Paul on this one! Even a strongly right-hand-dominant pilot will be safer with the stick in the left hand, if the alternative is to switch hands.

Never let the student drop the airplane to fly the avionics.

And BTW, I'd give my right hand to be ambidextrous...

eidolon45 · Joined: 25 Dec 2010 Posts: 56 Location: fairfax, va

thanks for taking time to respond. Nice to hear from the experts on this. Actually, Paul's rationale is near identical to that of my CFI who is a retired commercial airline pilot and certainly is familiar with cockpit ergonomics. Good news is, I had another lesson today and the left hand seemed to "wake up". Maybe it is all the work I have been making it do lately - driving left handed, brushing teeth left hand, computer mouse (boy that one is tough!) etc. All seems to have helped. Best of all, I can now PICTURE myself flaring with the left hand when arm chair flying. Couldn't do that at first. Brain kept conjuring up images of flying right handed!

Hope this is helpful to others.

NismoRR · Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 71 Location: Murrieta, CA

I started training last week in a Skycatcher, with throttle in the middle. I am very right hand dominant. I had read this thread before starting and mentioned to my instructor how I'd prefer flying with my right hand. His response was "you'll be flying with your left hand." That settled that! And you know what, it wasn't that bad. After a few more lessons, I think it will be second nature.