Sport Pilot Talk

bill_dom · Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 14 Location: Miami

I'm getting close to my solo cross country, started doing dual cross country already. I have a question about the distance requirement, the requirements dictate;

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total
distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one
segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least
25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations.

My question, is the 75 nm total, the sum of all 3 legs of the trip (A to B distance + B to C distance + C to A distance)? or is it the sum of the first 2 legs only (A to B + B to C)?

I did my first dual cross country but the sum of first and second leg add up to 65 nm only. If the requirement is for the sum of the first 2 legs, I would have to choose different destination.

William
Sport Pilot Student

zdc · Guest

bill_dom wrote: I'm getting close to my solo cross country, started doing dual cross country already. I have a question about the distance requirement, the requirements dictate;

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total
distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one
segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least
25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations.

My question, is the 75 nm total, the sum of all 3 legs of the trip (A to B distance + B to C distance + C to A distance)? or is it the sum of the first 2 legs only (A to B + B to C)?

I did my first dual cross country but the sum of first and second leg add up to 65 nm only. If the requirement is for the sum of the first 2 legs, I would have to choose different destination.

William
Sport Pilot Student

My understanding is that this x cntry does not require 3 legs. Depart point A, proceed to point B and land, return to point A and land. If point B is at least 37.5 NM away from point A the requirement is satisfied.

bill_dom · Guest Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 14 Location: Miami

According to the CFIs I know, 2 stops not counting the point of origin, basically 3 legs.

William
Sport Pilot Student

zdc wrote: bill_dom wrote: I'm getting close to my solo cross country, started doing dual cross country already. I have a question about the distance requirement, the requirements dictate;

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total
distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one
segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least
25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations.

My question, is the 75 nm total, the sum of all 3 legs of the trip (A to B distance + B to C distance + C to A distance)? or is it the sum of the first 2 legs only (A to B + B to C)?

I did my first dual cross country but the sum of first and second leg add up to 65 nm only. If the requirement is for the sum of the first 2 legs, I would have to choose different destination.

William
Sport Pilot Student

My understanding is that this x cntry does not require 3 legs. Depart point A, proceed to point B and land, return to point A and land. If point B is at least 37.5 NM away from point A the requirement is satisfied.

zdc · Guest

bill_dom wrote: According to the CFIs I know, 2 stops not counting the point of origin, basically 3 legs.

William
Sport Pilot Student

zdc wrote: bill_dom wrote: I'm getting close to my solo cross country, started doing dual cross country already. I have a question about the distance requirement, the requirements dictate;

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total
distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one
segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least
25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations.

My question, is the 75 nm total, the sum of all 3 legs of the trip (A to B distance + B to C distance + C to A distance)? or is it the sum of the first 2 legs only (A to B + B to C)?

I did my first dual cross country but the sum of first and second leg add up to 65 nm only. If the requirement is for the sum of the first 2 legs, I would have to choose different destination.

William
Sport Pilot Student

My understanding is that this x cntry does not require 3 legs. Depart point A, proceed to point B and land, return to point A and land. If point B is at least 37.5 NM away from point A the requirement is satisfied.

Where does the reg say "not counting the point of origin'? As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even have to return to the point of origin. Private Pilot requires a minimum of 3 landings and that is just a 3 legged trip, under your CFI's understanding that would be a 4 legged trip.The CFI's are confused about the requirements for the Sport x cntry requirements.

3Dreaming

bill_dom wrote: According to the CFIs I know, 2 stops not counting the point of origin, basically 3 legs.

William
Sport Pilot Student

zdc wrote: bill_dom wrote: I'm getting close to my solo cross country, started doing dual cross country already. I have a question about the distance requirement, the requirements dictate;

One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total
distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one
segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least
25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations.

My question, is the 75 nm total, the sum of all 3 legs of the trip (A to B distance + B to C distance + C to A distance)? or is it the sum of the first 2 legs only (A to B + B to C)?

I did my first dual cross country but the sum of first and second leg add up to 65 nm only. If the requirement is for the sum of the first 2 legs, I would have to choose different destination.

William
Sport Pilot Student

My understanding is that this x cntry does not require 3 legs. Depart point A, proceed to point B and land, return to point A and land. If point B is at least 37.5 NM away from point A the requirement is satisfied.

Using those CFI's logic then a private pilot long cross country would have to have 4 legs.
(ii) One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and
The 3 leg thinking carries over from the private pilot training. The regs say full stop landings at 2 points = 2 legs. There is nothing wrong with doing 3 legs, but it is not what the regs say. Tom

3Dreaming · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject:

To answer your original question it is the total distance from where you start to where you end up. All legs count in distance. Tom

bill_dom · Guest Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 14 Location: Miami

Based on what have been answered so far and how the regulation read, I just need to fly to a destination airport that is 25 nm or more in straight line. Then fly a route to that airport that will add up to 75 nm both ways, not necessarily flying in straight line.

William
Sport Pilot Student

3Dreaming · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:41 pm Post subject:

You can fly to an airport 37.5 miles away and return. You could fly to 3 airports in a perfect triangle that are 25 miles apart. Your instructor could give you cross country flight training to an airport 75 miles from home to pick up an airplane, then have you fly home with a stop in route. In theory you could do the cross country and never get more than 12.5 miles from your home field. Just make sure you have 75 mile total distance measured from airport to airport, one straight line segment of 25 miles, and 2 take offs and landings. That's what the regs say you need, but I have never heard of anyone having a problem with having more than is required. Tom

Jim Stewart · Guest Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 259

Taking 3D's comments a little further, your instructor will or should give you guidance on what he/she feels is an acceptable cross-country. He will also verify that it meets the requirements and he will approve your flight plan and sign off your logbook for the trip. If you don't think you can trust him to do these things, you might want to have a heart-to-heart chat with him.

bill_dom · Guest Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 14 Location: Miami

I might have misunderstood the 2 CFI I have talked to. One was my instructor, we talked very briefly about the requirements for solo cross-country while flying the dual cross-country. The other time was a while ago with another CFI and it was also a brief conversation.

I'll talk to my CFI more in detail next time I go flying.

Thanks to all for the clarification.

William
Sport Pilot Student

Jim Stewart wrote: Taking 3D's comments a little further, your instructor will or should give you guidance on what he/she feels is an acceptable cross-country. He will also verify that it meets the requirements and he will approve your flight plan and sign off your logbook for the trip. If you don't think you can trust him to do these things, you might want to have a heart-to-heart chat with him.

3Dreaming · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject:

I doubt that you misunderstood your CFI. Many have thought the same thing. I know it has been tossed around here before. Like I said before it is carry over from private pilot training. Tom

Paul Hamilton · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject:

Sport Pilot XC per 61.313:
(iii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations.

This is out and back for 2 points of landing or out and out to a different airport to end the flight.

All distance counts towards to 75 NM of the 2 legs requuired.

Private pilot is :
3 points of landing or a triangle if coming back to same airport as takeoff

EppyGA · Guest Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 48

bill_dom wrote: Based on what have been answered so far and how the regulation read, I just need to fly to a destination airport that is 25 nm or more in straight line. Then fly a route to that airport that will add up to 75 nm both ways, not necessarily flying in straight line.

William
Sport Pilot Student

That's not correct. Doesn't matter what route you fly the FAA is only going to take into consideration the straight line distance A to B.

drseti

zdc wrote: The CFI's are confused about the requirements for the Sport x cntry requirements.

That's because the FARs are deliberately ambiguous (and the FAA likes to issue letters of interpretation in response to queries). Most flight schools or flight instructors set their own standards, which tend to be higher than the required minimums. After all, you should be striving for excellence, not merely satisfying the licensing requirements.

If there's any chance that the student will be wanting to move up to Private Pilot later, I recommend that he or she do the Private Pilot requirement of a 3-leg XC with one 50 nm leg. But even if you're only a Sport Pilot candidate, it's not a bad plan to fly a triangle (with correspondingly shorter legs). I also prefer (as do most CFIs) that my solo XC students go to airports they've never flown to before. That gives them a chance to master the skills needed to fly to unfamiliar airports as PIC.

Paul Hamilton · Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:56 am Post subject:

3Dreaming wrote: In theory you could do the cross country and never get more than 12.5 miles from your home field. Just make sure you have 75 mile total distance measured from airport to airport, one straight line segment of 25 miles, and 2 take offs and landings. That's what the regs say you need, but I have never heard of anyone having a problem with having more than is required. Tom

Tom and all.
SORRY we have another very well hidden regulation in 61.1 b 3 (easy to miss i must add). Sport pilots MUST go more than 12.5 miles from the origional/home airport based on this:

61.1 highlights:

(3) Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—

(iii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate (except for powered parachute privileges), time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

Private is simular if anybody cares.