Sport Pilot Talk

NCPilot · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: Is LSA Right For Me?

Hello, my name is Sean and I am currently a private pilot. Right now I am renting a Piper Cherokee and while I enjoy the aircraft and hope to own an aircraft very soon, I do wonder if an LSA aircraft would be better suited for my mission than a four seater trainer.

Here is how my flying time breaks down so far. I am based in North Carolina, USA.

Local flights (Local fights to me is NC, SC, GA, TN, VA, KY.) Basically any destination that I can fly to and back with no re-fuel or one refuel stop. This will most likely make up 90% of my flights. Unless I'm on vacation, these flights will be either be overnight or same day flights. There's also the just flying around and enjoying the scenery or doing some flights to remain proficient.

Fly ins: So far here are my planned fly ins
AirVenture in Oshkosh WI
Wings BQ
Gastons Fly-Ins.

Depending on what aircraft I get, I'll be attending a gathering of pilots who also own the aircraft that I do. These will make up 10% of my flights.

For about 98% of the time, I am flying by myself. Once in awhile I'll take a family member or friend up, but I'm usually flying solo. I do have a Boxer puppy that I take on flights with me, and when I go on vacations or fly-ins, I plan to take him with me in the aircraft.

Speed is not the name of my game, I'd like to take my time and enjoy the flight. I do plan to get an IFR certificate, mainly so if I come across any IFR conditions and I my schedule doesn't allow me to land and wait it out, I can fly through it.

What do you guys think?

ArionAv8or · Joined: 20 Mar 2010 Posts: 271

Welcome Sean, you bring up some good questions.

My first question to you would be, do you plan to give up your medical?
If the answer is yes then I would say Sport Pilot and LSAs are definitely for you. However, if the answer is no, I would say if you have any desire to fly IFR you may want to rethink the SP route. They have changed the standards and will only allow "grandfathered" IFR certified S-LSA aircraft to fly IMC. There are a few aircraft out there but not as many as you would think. I am not sure on the E-LSA rulings for IMC but I know they are throwning a monkey wrench in the gears for IMC flight. You can build, certify and train IFR in a S-LSA, you just can't fly into actual IMC (except those grandfathered in). The other disadvantage to most LSAs is the price.

If you are not going to give up your medical and plan to retain if for years to come I personally would buy a RV. There are a lot of wonderful planes out there but the RVs are very reasonable for what you get. I have a friend that flies with me in his RV-6A. He pulls the power back to 2100 RPMs w/ 21" MP, flies in formation with me at 120 knots and only burns about 6 gph. Of course any time he wants he just adds a little go juice and he is cruising at 165 knots for those longer xcountries. You can also find fully IFR equipped RVs for sale on Barnstormers and seem to be fairly easy to turn when you are ready for something new.

For me Sport Pilot was definitely the way to go. My flying is very similar to yours with the exception of IFR. I have no desire to fly in the soup nor do I care to fly at night. Well that is not entirely true, I think I would consider night flight, but definitely not the soup. There is no limitation to the SP class that I cannot live with based on my flying needs. I hope you decide what you want but that is just my .02 worth.

NCPilot · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject:

I don't really plan to give up my medical, I like to retain my PPL as well as IFR certificate. When did the FAA ruled that LSA aircraft can't be IFR equipped? Do you have a source on this?

NCPilot · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject:

Ok, so I scanned through the Sport Pilot rules, and this is what it said.

Quote: Light-sport aircraft issued an experimental light-sport or special light-sport airworthiness certificate that are authorized to operate in Class B, C, and D airspace must have the equipment for VFR or IFR operations specified in the applicable consensus standards and any other equipment specified by the operating requirements contained in subpart C of part 91. In addition, aircraft that operate under IFR must comply with the altimeter tests and inspections required by §91.411.

Link to rules

Seems like at least the E-LSA or S-LSA can be IFR certified.

dstclair · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 212 Location: Allen, TX

An existing SLSA may be flown in IMC if the manufacturer approves it. Very soon the ASTM will be prohibiting IMC expressly for all SLSAs. This is until there is a consensus IMC standard which could be months or years away.

Very few manufacturers allow IMC. I believe AMD, Tecnam and Evektor might. The plane would still need to be equipped appropriately.

So you could most likely find a used SLSA to fit your mission.

ArionAv8or · Joined: 20 Mar 2010 Posts: 271

NCPilot wrote: I don't really plan to give up my medical, I like to retain my PPL as well as IFR certificate. When did the FAA ruled that LSA aircraft can't be IFR equipped? Do you have a source on this?

If you read my original post you will see I said you can equip and train IFR in a S-LSA aircraft, you just will not be able to fly into actual IMC, unless approved by the manufacture and grandfathered in. This is from the new ASTM standards and I am including a link from Dan Johnson's website that discusses the changes.

http://www.bydanjohnson.com/Sidebar.cfm?Article_ID=1334

As you can see this is NOT a FAA regulation, but a ASTM standard.

NCPilot · Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject:

Hmm well this isn't good. If I'm on a schedule and I encounter IMC, I'd like to be able to continue my flight. Of course the only time I'd actually be on a schedule if I'm going on vacation or to a fly in.

EDIT: Ok, this is probably a stupid question and I apologize if it is. Does this ruling by ASTM affect E-LSA? Because to be honest, if I'm going the LSA route, I'd want to build either an RV 12 or Zodiac XL.

FastEddieB · Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 207 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Where in NC are you?

I'm near western NC, and would not mind getting together to chat.

706-492-3118

edited to add: Plan is for Karen and I to arrive at Hickory, NC around 11A for a fly-in today (10/16/10). Just look for a happy couple in a Sky Arrow!

ArionAv8or · Joined: 20 Mar 2010 Posts: 271

NCPilot wrote: Hmm well this isn't good. If I'm on a schedule and I encounter IMC, I'd like to be able to continue my flight. Of course the only time I'd actually be on a schedule if I'm going on vacation or to a fly in.

EDIT: Ok, this is probably a stupid question and I apologize if it is. Does this ruling by ASTM affect E-LSA? Because to be honest, if I'm going the LSA route, I'd want to build either an RV 12 or Zodiac XL.

I found this quote and link for you on EAA.com discussing the E-LSA ruling on IMC.

"ASTM standards for S-LSA aircraft do not apply to amateur-built aircraft or experimental light-sport aircraft (E-LSA), and do not affect Experimental category operations."

You can read the entire article at:

http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/2010-09-02_astm.asp

NCPilot · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:54 am Post subject:

ArionAv8or wrote: NCPilot wrote: Hmm well this isn't good. If I'm on a schedule and I encounter IMC, I'd like to be able to continue my flight. Of course the only time I'd actually be on a schedule if I'm going on vacation or to a fly in.

EDIT: Ok, this is probably a stupid question and I apologize if it is. Does this ruling by ASTM affect E-LSA? Because to be honest, if I'm going the LSA route, I'd want to build either an RV 12 or Zodiac XL.

I found this quote and link for you on EAA.com discussing the E-LSA ruling on IMC.

"ASTM standards for S-LSA aircraft do not apply to amateur-built aircraft or experimental light-sport aircraft (E-LSA), and do not affect Experimental category operations."

You can read the entire article at:

http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/2010-09-02_astm.asp

E-LSA it is then. :)