Sport Pilot Talk

bryancobb · Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:21 am Post subject: Reason Checkride Fears are High

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to say a few words about the Sport Pilot segment of general aviation, and the attitudes of students, instructors, and examiners, as it relates to someone's FIRST experience taking a checkride.
I took my initial Private Pilot Checkride, for Airplane SEL, in 1985, at Peter O'Knight, in Tampa, with Mr. James Leslie.
I took my Private Pilot add-on Checkride for Rotorcraft Helicopter, in 1993, at Peachtree Dekalb in Atlanta, with Mr. Rich Hull.
I took my Commercial Pilot Checkride for Rotorcraft Helicopter, in 1995, at Fulton County Charlie Brown in Atlanta, with Mr. Mike Chumley.
I took my Instrument Airplane Checkride, in 1997, at Polk County Cedartown GA, with Mr. John Mann.
I took my Commercial Pilot Airplane SEL Checkride, in 1997, at Polk County Cedartown GA, with Mr. John Mann.
I took my Initial CFI Sport Pilot Airplane SEL, in 2007, at Cartersville GA, with Mr. Ben Methvin.
I have Six Checkrides with five different examiners under my belt so I think my opinions are valid.

I'm going to put Mr. Methvin in "column A" alone, and all the others in "column B."

Then I'm going to list things that pop in my head that pertain to "A" versus "B," for the purpose of trying to contrast the "SPORT CHECKRIDE EXPERIENCE" with "PRIVATE AND ABOVE CHECKRIDE EXPERIENCE."

A
PTS in-hand and by-the-book
Very Formal in Nature (Friendly Conversation but somewhat formal)
Went by FAA checlist to conduct every aspect of test
Checking off squares in required PTS items to insure completeness
Based on THE FAA's OPINION of wheither I was a safe, knowledgeable pilot or not
Oral Seemed to treat each area of questioning as pass/fail criteria per PTS
DPE acted as if he must conform to the FAA's idea of how to conduct a checkride
DPE Avoided anything that could be percieved as TEACHING

B
PTS nowhere to be found
Very Informal in nature, "Go preflight and I'll be out in a minute."
Conducted "Off-The-Cuff" and never used any referencees to FAA Pubs
No square checking was apparent
Based on THE EXAMINER's OPINION of wheither I was a safe, knowledgeable pilot or not
Oral seemed to be for the purpose of getting an "OVERALL PICTURE" of my knowledge level to be a safe pilot
DPE acted as if the FAA trusted his opinion as an expert and didn't try to conform to any FAA suggested format
DPE was enthusiastic about increasing my understanding of a maneuver, procedure, or topic

My OPINION is that Sport Pilot applicants are MUCH more nervous about their practical tests than are Private and above applicants.

A and B above clearly show why. I think Sport DPE's could really benefit from adopting the attitude that they are an expert, and they have the experience and knowledge to evaluate someone's piloting skills, without letting the FAA's "I can teach a monkey to fly a spacecraft" checklists, drive the conduct of the checkride.

gmohr · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 63 Location: Augusta, GA

Bryan,
Thanks for the insight. It is interesting in that it differs from what I
have heard from recent Sport Pilots who have taken the checkride with Ben.
I have made notes and will make sure that I am fully prepared. I would
hate to be "surprised". According to my CFI, I am performing all of my
maneuvers well within PTS standards... I just want to make sure I do not
have a brain "fart" during. Hopefully Ben will be a little looser than he has in
the past, at least he seemed that way when I got my student certificate and
solo'd in front of him. Any other tips for those of us getting close.. .I am all
ears... I have watched the ASA video.. and I am studying the FAR/AIM(it is
tabbed to all the areas pertaining to Sport Pilots), working on plotting routes
and calculating wind corrections, fuel usage, etc etc etc.

Thanks,

Gene

bryancobb · Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: Don't Take what I posted wrong.

Gene,
Please do not take what I said the wrong way. Ben is a SUPER guy and a long-time friend of mine. My post was not to criticize Ben at all. His checkrides are fair. He is thorough and good at what he does.

The purpose of my post was to try and explain, from my point of view, why Sport Applicants, in general, seem to me to be A LOT more worried about their checkrides than all the other segments of general aviation.

I'm just saying that a checkride "by-the-book" is more intimidating to first-time applicants than a loosely executed "joy ride to see if you are a safe pilot."

My hope was to influence Sport DPE's a little, by encouraging them to rely
more on their knowledge, skill, and judgement as an EXPERT and a little less on the FAA's bureaucratic instructions and publications.

I HOPE I DO NOT ADD TO ANY APPLICANT'S ANXIETY TOWARD THEIR CHECKRIDE. IT SHOULD BE JUST ANOTHER FLIGHT LIKE THE LAST 10.

gmohr · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 63 Location: Augusta, GA

Bryan,

No problem.. I did not take it that way. As a retired Army NCO and
former Drill Instructor I am use to the by the book check offs. But you are
right, that style of testing is very intimidating to most Sport Pilot Applicants.
I am also surprised at how many are afraid of the FAA written exam.
Yes, there are many areas that are covered and you only get 40
questions, but if you are studying and are prepared it is just another
milestone in obtaining your certification. I always strive to be prepared
for anything that can come my way and the only way to do that is to
prepare using all the tools available including fine people like yourself
who share their perspective and knowledge..

I am sure you saw my post in the Training section that Mr. Hamilton took
offense to... I was just trying to be objective and so were my friends. We
all think his book is well structured.

Ben is a great guy and I love talking with him. He is a great aviation
resource. Not to mention he has a beautiful little Cub...

Gene

Paul Hamilton · Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 351 Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada

I do understand your point and will try to help find some solutions that I know work. Please understand I am providing my perspective as an examiner, dealing directly with the FAA sport pilot perspective, the CFI’s and the applicants trying to get through. Here I cover why it should be done by the book and provide four points of how to eliminate “checkride fears”.

I have heard two reactions of applicants going to the “informal” type B checkride. Either “that was really easy” or “my instructor made me learn all that stuff and I was not tested on any of it.” Here the instructor ends up being the bad guy for a perceived “over preparing” the applicant.

Overall, we both have heard something completely different of sport verses private and above checkrides. I have heard the sport pilot checkride is easier and less stressful than the private and above. How could this be? I think this is because the private and above checkride stories are from long ago when the checkrides were less formal, and the sport pilot checkrides are more recent. Your (Bryan) personal experience is an example of this. The FAA is “tightening up” lately as a result of the attorneys for all DPE’s to go by the book. I think the industry has made the sport pilot ticket seem so easy that the applicants feel he/she does not have to know much or fly since it is “not a real pilots license” as some of the old timers say. Everyone is focused on this minimum 20 hours for a sport pilot certificate and thinks this is all it takes to earn a FAA pilot certificate.

So to summarize my opinion, and what the FAA is telling the DPE,s of the A verses the B type checkrides, the checkrides should be done per the book and not informal. It is not healthy for applicants to get the impression that the checkride will be informal as the “B type” is described. Enough said.

Getting back to the real goal here, is how to reduce the fear of checkrides. Here are my suggestions. A note on terminology, the FAA does not want us to use the word “fail” during the checkride because it is too harsh. It is supposed to be “unsatisfactory performance on the task”. I am going to use the word “fail” here since it is easier.

First, if you fail a checkride, so what, no big deal. It does seem like the end of the world as we all know it and you have to explain it to everyone. It costs time and money. But in the big picture it is no big deal. No one got hurt too bad. No blood was spilled. Yes it feels really bad and humiliating at first, believe me I know. It turns out to be another one of those “and there I was” stories. This is a complete subject on it’s own I could talk about but the point is, but no big deal. You get the additional training required and take it again.

Second take some training from the examiner, if he/she will provide training before the checkride. The FAA does not encourage this, but there are no rules against it. The examiner acting as a CFI can instruct, provide tips on how to pass the checkride, go over some of the maneuvers. The applicant gets used to the aircraft and flying in the area. Any areas the applicant is weak on can be worked on and fixed. The applicant gets used to the examiner as a person/CFI, and not the big bad "by the book" FAA examiner. This makes a huge difference for the applicant to ease fears. The job of the examiner is to simply check the CFI who trained the applicant for a brief “snapshot in time” to make sure the applicant meets the PTS standards.

Third is for the recommending CFI to do a good job of instruction in all the tasks and instill confidence in the applicant. If the pass rate of the CFI is not good, then the applicant should be worried. If the pass rate of the CFI is good, than the applicant should go in with confidence. The CFI can talk to the examiner. Ask specifics of each task and compare to the applicants knowledge and skills. Come to find out after some checkride “failures” or “pink slipped” applicants, the instructor knew the applicant was not prepared but the applicant insisted on going for the checkride anyway. It is actually worse for the recommending CFI than the applicant if a “pink slip” is issued.

Forth is the most important. Be prepared for the checkride. If you know your stuff and are prepared you will not fail it. Here is an example of the extremes applicants go into checkrides. “ I am so scared I hope I make it” or “this will be fun to show someone who cares my stuff”.

3Dreaming · Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 301 Location: noble, IL USA

When I train my students I use the PTS to show them what they have to do and what the limits are. I also try to tell them we don't just want to train to the minimum standard we want better than that. At the end of the training you should be able to go to any DPE and pass the checkride. If that is not the case the student is not getting all the training they deserve. The DPE I use for my student goes by the PTS, and no 2 checkrides are the same. He covers the whole range of the PTS, so the students get the training to cover everything. I tell my students before the checkride that I have not had anyone fail yet, and the examiner expects you to pass, and he will give you every opertunity to pass. If you do not pass it will be because you did something wrong and you will know that you made a mistake. Tom

Paul Hamilton · Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 351 Location: Reno/Tahoe Nevada

3Dreaming wrote: When I train my students I use the PTS to show them what they have to do and what the limits are. I also try to tell them we don't just want to train to the minimum standard we want better than that. At the end of the training you should be able to go to any DPE and pass the checkride. If that is not the case the student is not getting all the training they deserve. The DPE I use for my student goes by the PTS, and no 2 checkrides are the same. He covers the whole range of the PTS, so the students get the training to cover everything. I tell my students before the checkride that I have not had anyone fail yet, and the examiner expects you to pass, and he will give you every opertunity to pass. If you do not pass it will be because you did something wrong and you will know that you made a mistake. Tom
Well said.