Sport Pilot Talk

drseti · Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 1387 Location: Lock Haven PA

yozz25 wrote: can a cfi be endorsed or rather named as an insured on school policy?

Absolutely! This was my case before I opened my own flight school. I was an independent contractor (not an employee) instructing for P&F Aviation in Williamsport. I had to fill out a pilot information form, and was then added (by AIG, I think) to the flight school's policy as a named insured.

In the case of my school, there is a very generous Open Pilot clause, which covers any flight instructor (whether employee or contractor) with a commercial license, instrument rating, and current CFI certificate (whether with or without a current medical) whom I have personally checked out in the aircraft. No minimum hours (though I impose a 5 hour company minimum), just a checkout and signoff.

3Dreaming · Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 301 Location: noble, IL USA

The problem is not with insurance for the CFI he can be adde to the FBO policy, but the FBO has to bill for the instruction time. As the owner of an airplane covered under a commercial policy you rent to some one else for a commercial operation (flight instruction) your insurance for the airplane is no longer any good. The people doing the second commercial operation have to provide insurance for that operation. That is why renting an airplane and hiring a different CFI is not a good idea. Tom

yozz25 · Joined: 18 Dec 2009 Posts: 185 Location: vegas

In that case, when renting a plane and hiring another cfi, the cfi would probably have to have his own liability and hull coverage for rented craft. Also student may also have to take out hull coverage if he damages plane.

So thus it's best for student to simply go to an fbo, or cfi with a plane, all covered.

yozz

AZPilot · Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 156

The operative word on most FBO/flightschool policies is "approved". A CFI that is an employee/contractor or "approved" by the FBO would be covered.

The more serious problem arises when someone is trying to do something "under the table".

For those of you not in the insurance biz, two words you need to know and understand is "subrogation" and "waiver of subrogation".

No student/renter pilot should set foot in anyones instructional aircraft without having verified that the operator does in fact have insurance, and the specifics of that policy, including deductibles "in motion" and "not in motion", and who is paying if there is a mishap including while with CFI.

This same advice holds true for the CFI doing instruction in FBO or privately owned aircraft, especially someone's privately owned aircraft).

yozz25 · Joined: 18 Dec 2009 Posts: 185 Location: vegas

Having been on the regulatory side of the insurance industry, I have seen probably hundreds if not thousands of instances where there was no insurance!!!!!!!

This resulted in many mad scrambles to piece something together to get the incident covered. Sometimes it had to do with lapse in coverage, non pay, broker forgets to foward cash you gave him, yet he gave you policy, all sorts of BS.

I've seen brokers/agents actually pocket the premium monies and underwrite the policy themselves, paying out claims from collected premiums, using a policy form in their possession to make you think you have insurance. Now you know why I'm so skeptical!!!!!!! All the bad apples hit my desk, if they done it, I've seen it. Stangely, but perhaps not so strangely, and aviation problem has never hit my desk, thus we considered it an "exotic"

Incidents in flight as I see it, are rare, where one has a significant liability on hand, as compared to auto, home, etc.

I would add to AZ's subrogation thing, look at what "voids" the policy. I have not yet studied the aviation thing in detail, but I would assume, hate to assume, that not being in complance with FAA regs pertaining to training and safety may void the policy.

I think the only thing I've seen, in the flesh, was on Maui, when a heavy one loading for a trip to chicago was rammed by a "stoned" driver of a baggage ramp device into the side of the fuselage, poking a huge hole in plane. Never seen so many pissed travelers, but one happy stoned driver. Maui wowie surely must be some good s--t.

yozz