Sport Pilot Talk

seastar · Joined: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 63

I finally made a decision after almost two years of looking, test flying and studying the LSA market.
I have flown most of the imported plastic and metal wonders and there are some very good aircraft out there. (And IMHO some that should not be sold)

For me, it's the Cub Crafters Carbon SS Cub.
Here are my reasons.
1. Tube and fabric construction, repairable by almost anyone.
2. US manufacturer. US Manufacturer, US manufacturer, Made in the USA
3. Proven, very very strong design (8+ G's) built in an FAA inspected factory.
4 Performance is off the charts. Ultra short field TO&L, 2000 f/m ROC and very good cruise.
5. Lycoming engine clone - parts readily available.
6. Will be built as an ELSA at the factory so I can do my own maintainence. You can modify , add or change an ELSA as you wish.
7. I started flying in a Cub almost 50 years ago and still have a soft spot for them..
8. Smart , humble, experienced people at the factory. Probably know more about Cubs than anyone.
9. All kinds of options available.

I will admit it has some down side issues.
1. Tailwheel aircraft - I think I can learn.
2. Very expensive - I can't take it with me.
3. Limited legal useful load and range - with all that power and strength, who cares.

I can't hardly wait to take delivery.
Now all I need to do is dust off my tailwheel skills.
Bill

Doss79 · Joined: 30 Jun 2008 Posts: 108 Location: San Antonio, Tx

You're going to have a lot of fun with that thing. I own a J3 Cub. I can't get it out of my head. Love these taildraggers. Good luck!

Norm · Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Spokane, WA

Bill, you're getting the plane I'm drooling over. BTW, how will u equip it? Have u ordered it yet?

Norm

seastar · Joined: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 63

I placed an order last Friday and expect delivery in April.
I added the Executive glass panel and an autopilot and a lighting package.
Also the WX and TIS upgrades.
8.50 tires for a little off airport capability.
I flew the airplane twice at Sebring and was very impressed.
It's the best flying LSA I have flown.
With two aboard we were airborne by the time the throttle was open.
I pulled the power back to 2550 and held 60 MPH and timed us at 3 minutes to 4500 feet from sea level. That airplane had 26 inch tires.
It will do better than that but there was lot's of traffic at Sebring.
At the 80 HP continous setting we were doing 107 MPH at 4500 feet.
I did not try 75% (135 HP) but am sure it would come close to or excede the LSA limit even with the big tires.
Lot's of fun!!!!
Bill

jake · Joined: 25 Oct 2009 Posts: 80 Location: minnesota

Seastar,
Congratulations on your purchase. Im sure you will love it.

I too am trying to make a final decision.
If Fabric and tandem seating were on my
list i would be right with you.

Would you be willing to share some of your knowledge
from flying these LSAs?
I have only flown the CTs and Tecnams. I thaught both flew
well but just dont like the look of the CT.

Jake

Norm · Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Spokane, WA

Bill, thanks. It sounds like you're going to have a VERY well equipped Carbon SS Cub.

If off airport landings are in anyone's repertoire then I'd 100% agree about the tube and fabric build. My son and I put a large rock into his Super Cub elevator off airport in Alaska and duct tape put a temporary fix on it for many hours until CubCrafters could do a permanent fix which included fabric and a re-doing of a couple of elevator tubes. Not much money or time were involved in the fix. But let that same thing happen to a metal-skinned, or worse, another type of new skin and it could get ugly very fast.

Awesome plane.

rfane · Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 214 Location: Sunnyvale, CA

seastar wrote: 6. Will be built as an ELSA at the factory so I can do my own maintainence. You can modify , add or change an ELSA as you wish.

Are you sure about that? The way I recall it, and I could be wrong, but don't E-LSA still have the manufacturer approval issue for all changes and mods.? I have read that the aircraft basically has to martch the S-LSA version, or have manufacturer approval otherwise. The E-AB (Experimental, Amateur Built) category is where you can do what you want with the aircraft.

Sounds like a fun airplane! Congrats!

seastar · Joined: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 63

According to the folks at Cub Crafters, you can modify the ELSA's without approval from the factory.
You can do your own work, maintainence, annuals, etc. after taking the 16 hour LSA repairman course.
At least that's what they told me.
I don't intend to do my own annuals because I would like someone to look at the airplane who is more experienced than me.
I do intend to take the course just for the knowledge.
Bill

Norm · Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Spokane, WA

What Bill says is my understanding also. I think E-LSA is a bit different then E Amateur Built. S-LSA requires factory approval for modifications ... E-LSA does not. At least that's what I remember from my reading and conversations w CubCrafters.

Bill, on take off you're going to riding a space shuttle!! Sounds like you're a bit rusty on tailwheel flying. I just sold a Maule tailwheel and have some hours in my son's 180 hp Super Cub. The wings on the Carbon SC are a lot bigger than most the rest of the LSA world. Think kite. Get a good checkout and stick w light winds for the first 25 hours and you'll be fine.

The Idaho backcountry is near where I live and it's the best of the Lower-48 for your airplane. Wow.

seastar · Joined: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 63

Jake
Here are some of my general impressions.

I flew the Evektor and thought the airplane was very good in the air and very bad on the ground, easy to overcontrol when landing.
Many flight schools are using it so maybe it's ok when you get used to it..
It's well made but slow.

When I flew the Remos I was very impressed. It flys very well with no bad habits. It has a visibility problem out the sides. The seat is too high for me.
It's fast.
If I wanted a cross country high wing airplane this would be high on my list.
However, I really don't like folding wing airplanes. Just one more thing to go wrong.

The CTLS was the least impressive and it was high on my list to start.
I flew two different airplanes and found them very hard to land.
Maybe It's me.
The airplane seemed twichy in the air. They do not recover from sudden control movements in pitch for several oscilations.
People who have them love them.
They are fast for an LSA.

The sting S3 was the best of the low wing airplanes.
I couldn't find anything to complain about in a one hour demo flight.
Fast but not too roomy.

The Jabaru control system with the center stick and push pull cables to the controls seemed very awkward and stiff.
It's fast and has a lot of baggage space and I suspect you could easly fly it way over gross with no problems.
The engine is very smooth but I think you would be stuck if they go out of business.
They have had cooling problems in the past.
At the factory I saw very bad avionics installations. So bad I would not buy one of their airplanes.
Maybe they have that fixed by now?

I have not had a chance to fly a Tecnam but they look like they are very well built.
The new P2008 is an unkown because it has a composite and metal structure that is unproven in the market.

I would not touch a Just Aircraft for a bunch of reasons that I will not go in to.

The Cub Crafters Carbon Cub SS had no bad habits when I flew it,
It is a very nice flying airplane that shows it's super cub heritige.
The construction is the best I have seen in a tube and fabric airplane.

These are just my impressions and should be taken for what they are worth - maybe nothing.
Bill

comperini · Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 152 Location: California

Norm wrote: What Bill says is my understanding also. I think E-LSA is a bit different then E Amateur Built. S-LSA requires factory approval for modifications ... E-LSA does not.

The main differences between the types of experimentals (amateur built vs E-LSA), is:

(1) What makes the aircraft eligible to be certificated in a particular category (amateur-built has the infamous 51% rule, E-LSA does not. E-LSA under 21.191(i)(2) has the ASTM requirements, etc)

(2) Who can obtain the repairman certificate, and how its obtained. (Amateur-built repairman certificate is only available to the "original builder".. for E-LSA, you can take the 16 hour course)

Other than that, "experimental is experimental". You can do whatever maintenance/repairs you want on it. No "manufacturer approval" required. No FAA certificate required.

Once the "new" Part 43 change goes into effect, the big fat mistake the FAA finally corrected, will once again allow people who have experiementals certificated under 21.191(i)(3) to do their own maintenance, too.

Norm · Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Spokane, WA

Nice summary, Bill. Thanks.

I think worth mentioning for others reading, too, is that the Carbon SS Cub has been actually load tested to withstand 1865 pound gross weight. ((the frame has been strengthened more than the regular CC Sport Cub)). So at lower weights the potential safe G-forces could theoretically be in the black-out-vomit range.

Also, I like the idea of a Lycoming based engine. It's based on the Lycoming O-320 and stroked to 340 c.i. and tweaked in a few areas, but many of the parts are sitting on the shelves of nearly every FBO. For me, and IMHO only, it would give me a bit of extra peace of mind when flying over hostile terrain.

jake · Joined: 25 Oct 2009 Posts: 80 Location: minnesota

Seastar,

Thanks for the summary.

Jake

FastEddieB · Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 207 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

The Carbon Cub looks like a hoot!

As a data point, I heard their demo had a list price of $192,000(!) with all the options.

Imagine telling someone in 1938 that a Cub would one day sell for that (they started at $995 then if you can believe Wikipedia).

Anyway, if and when someone gets their hands on one of these, please, PLEASE bring it to N GA to show it off to me!

Daidalos · Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 135 Location: KHWV

The rule has been changed on E-LSA maintenance. The revisions are set to go into effect on April 2, 2010.

See: http://eaa.org/news/2010/2010-02-01_sp_rule.asp