<![CDATA[Sport Pilot Talk]]> http://sportpilottalk.com Sat, 26 May 2018 13:34:51 -0400 Smartfeed Extension for phpBB 3.1 http://sportpilottalk.com/styles/prosilver/theme/images/site_logo.gif <![CDATA[Sport Pilot Talk]]> http://sportpilottalk.com en-GB Sat, 26 May 2018 13:34:51 -0400 60 <![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: New Pilot in Training :: Reply by carlapilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5016&p=50980#p50980 thanks, in the name of beginners :) :)

MrMorden wrote:New pilots are the lifeblood of the aviation hobby. Hooray for new pilots!!!
]]>
no_email@example.com (carlapilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5016&p=50980#p50980 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 12:02:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5016&p=50980#p50980
<![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Old Pilot in Training :: Author Mike]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51009#p51009 no_email@example.com (Mike) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51009#p51009 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:18:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51009#p51009 <![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Old Pilot in Training :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51013#p51013 no_email@example.com (Sling 2 Pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51013#p51013 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 20:16:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51013#p51013 <![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Old Pilot in Training :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51014#p51014
Where are you located?]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51014#p51014 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 20:37:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51014#p51014
<![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Old Pilot in Training :: Reply by Mike]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51015#p51015 no_email@example.com (Mike) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51015#p51015 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:11:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51015#p51015 <![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Old Pilot in Training :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51054#p51054
I love LSA but you might want to consider getting back into your comfort and competence zone with something you are familiar with... Then tackle the LSA's.

Jumping to a Rotax, castering nosewheel, non-standard engine controls, glass panels etc. can be a little overwhelming at first.]]>
no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51054#p51054 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:05:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51054#p51054
<![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Old Pilot in Training :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51055#p51055 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51055#p51055 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:13:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5072&p=51055#p51055 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51043#p51043
I was getting spotty GPS signal due to "airframe shadowing". I was failing maybe 2 of every 5 PAPR reports with the FAA. All it takes is one good one for the rebate but nevertheless I wanted better GPS signals and perfect PAPR reports all the time. The antenna was about 1-2 inches below the top of the cowling.

I removed my COM antenna from the top, center of the airplane and put the Garmin GA-35 antenna there utilizing the same hole. This is the best location for a GPS antenna according to Garmin. I then purchased a RAMI AV-17 belly mount COM antenna and mounted it across from my transponder/ADS-B out antenna. It works better on the belly for air to ground communications anyway. I didn't mind drilling a hole in the bottom of the plane and now the COM antenna is also in the best location.

Since moving my GPS antenna all my PAPR reports come back PERFECT. The moral of this story is to pick the GPS antenna location wisely. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51043#p51043 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 16:20:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51043#p51043
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by restlinbaum]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51073#p51073 Ray]]> no_email@example.com (restlinbaum) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51073#p51073 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:09:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51073#p51073 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51075#p51075 ]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51075#p51075 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:16:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51075#p51075 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51077#p51077
Warmi wrote:For me the problem is not the hardware itself but someone who can install this stuff ( GDL 82) on my light sport ( not experimental ) plane ... :D


After deciding exactly what you want to install, before you buy anything, you'd best contact the manufacturer and request an LoA. Once that's granted, go ahead and buy. Armed with the LoA, any avionics shop, A&P or LSRM should be able to do the installation. (Without the LoA, you'd be wasting your money by buying something that probably won't be approved.)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51077#p51077 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:21:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51077#p51077
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51078#p51078
drseti wrote:
Warmi wrote:For me the problem is not the hardware itself but someone who can install this stuff ( GDL 82) on my light sport ( not experimental ) plane ... :D


After deciding exactly what you want to install, before you buy anything, you'd best contact the manufacturer and request an LoA. Once that's granted, go ahead and buy. Armed with the LoA, any avionics shop, A&P or LSRM should be able to do the installation. (Without the LoA, you'd be wasting your money by buying something that probably won't be approved.)


I do have a blanket Loa from the manufacturer for pretty much all Garmin ADSB products ( it literally says “all models”) so it is just a matter of finding a shop - and that’s the problem, nobody wants to bother with such minor upgrade :D]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51078#p51078 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:28:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51078#p51078
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51079#p51079
For instance their MEL for ADSB equipment is simply :

MEL.jpg


Can't beat that :D

Attachments



MEL.jpg (78.39 KiB)


]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51079#p51079 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:41:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51079#p51079
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51083#p51083
Warmi wrote:I do have a blanket Loa from the manufacturer for pretty much all Garmin ADSB products ( it literally says “all models”) so it is just a matter of finding a shop - and that’s the problem, nobody wants to bother with such minor upgrade :D


How do they consider this a "minor upgrade"? You are not "upgrading" anything. They would be installing new avionics equipment. And making money in the process. You mean you can't find an avionics shop that wants to take your money? This is the craziest thing I've ever heard. :mrgreen:

PS - you might want to skip #14, just sayin']]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51083#p51083 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 23:05:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51083#p51083
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51084#p51084 ]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51084#p51084 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 23:10:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51084#p51084 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51095#p51095
Warmi wrote:BTW .. I think TL Ultralight is pretty much the best case scenario when it comes to LOA and equipment related inquiries ...

For instance their MEL for ADSB equipment is simply :

MEL.jpg

Can't beat that :D


Sure you can...uAvionix is not on the list! :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51095#p51095 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:18:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51095#p51095
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51124#p51124
MrMorden wrote:
Warmi wrote:BTW .. I think TL Ultralight is pretty much the best case scenario when it comes to LOA and equipment related inquiries ...
For instance their MEL for ADSB equipment is simply :
MEL.jpg
Can't beat that :D

Sure you can...uAvionix is not on the list! :mrgreen:

x2]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51124#p51124 Tue, 01 May 2018 12:48:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51124#p51124
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51125#p51125 , I would have to send a letter to TL Ultralight to get uAvionix on the list - no problem at all .. and the main difference would be that once it gets on that list it would be available to everyone - which , to my understanding, is not the case with many other manufacturers.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51125#p51125 Tue, 01 May 2018 12:52:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51125#p51125 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51130#p51130
Warmi wrote:Well .... ok :D , I would have to send a letter to TL Ultralight to get uAvionix on the list - no problem at all .. and the main difference would be that once it gets on that list it would be available to everyone - which , to my understanding, is not the case with many other manufacturers.


That part is true, there are very few "blanket approvals" for the Flight Design airplanes, for example. And even for those you still have to submit an MRA (major repair or alteration) form to FD for their files, for which they'll charge you $75.

Sounds like TL is doing it right, from a customer perspective.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51130#p51130 Tue, 01 May 2018 14:08:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51130#p51130
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51131#p51131
Warmi wrote:So far , the shops I been talking to work on upgrading certified planes with price tags ranging from 50k up ... this sort of work I need is a waste of time for them. I need to find some smaller operation , somebody like 3Dreaming but who is willing to install avionics :D


Try some places as smaller fields down state a bit. Check with the local EAA chapter. They should either have someone who can do the work or know an A&P that's happy to work on EAB's. Such a person would probably be happy to work on an LSA also. Some of these people are part timers that have "real" jobs and do this sort of work for flying money, but that doesn't mean they down't know what they are about.]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51131#p51131 Tue, 01 May 2018 14:20:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51131#p51131
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Motor Glider :: Author TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5082&p=51422#p51422
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stemme-German- ... SwEA9a754p]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5082&p=51422#p51422 Mon, 07 May 2018 17:33:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5082&p=51422#p51422
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Author FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51510#p51510
A member there tracked down my first plane, a 1968 Cessna 150, that I owned for a short time in 1975:

Image

Of course, he used the FAA database (d’oh!)

Anyway, miracle of miracle the plane is now based at Monroe County Airport in Madisonville, TN. An airport I virtually fly over when commuting between Copperhill and our Lenoir City property.

Image

I contacted the new owner and flew in one day and met him and his girlfriend:

Image

Not much changed in 40+ years. Drooped wingtips, painted spinner and updated radios, but not much else is different.

The owner is a nice young man working on his private. He offered to let me fly the plane some time, and I hope to take him up on it.

On a sadder note, the 1975 Traveler I owned not long thereafter was totaled, though fortunately not a fatal.

Image

So it goes...]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51510#p51510 Thu, 10 May 2018 20:13:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51510#p51510
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Reply by smutny]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51513#p51513
Last time I saw her was the early 90's, sitting next to a hangar sans wings, engine or dignity. Brought a tear to my eye.]]>
no_email@example.com (smutny) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51513#p51513 Fri, 11 May 2018 01:33:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51513#p51513
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51514#p51514 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51514#p51514 Fri, 11 May 2018 11:21:39 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51514#p51514 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51515#p51515
Image]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51515#p51515 Fri, 11 May 2018 14:08:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51515#p51515
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51516#p51516
I had bought it for $4,000 in May of 1975. That sounds like a steal, but I recall back then a new C150 was just under $10,000, and a new Aerobat just over $10,000. So, $4,000 for a 7-year-old plane was probably fair at the time.

Unfortunately, about 2 months later, in June, I went for a trip to the NE from S FL with my ex-wife. On the way back from visiting friends in Lock Haven, we landed at College Park, MD and had an oil change. Unfortunately, a lot of the wrong kinds of metal were found in the filter or screen, which would necessitate an overhaul. An overhaul we could not afford at the time. Sad.

The mechanic knew someone on the field who was looking for a project, and he gave us $2,500 for it as it sat. That was the last I saw it. Until now.

Then again, it set the stage for what was my second plane, a 1976 Citabria 7ECA - and a long, and so far safe, flying career.

If anyone cares, here's that final flight:

Image]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51516#p51516 Fri, 11 May 2018 14:28:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51516#p51516
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51517#p51517
It's the oldest continuously operated airport in the US. The Wright Bro's taught the Army how to fly there. After 9/11, emergency services flew out there just to keep it operational and open to maintain that record.

For those that don't know, Collage Park is one of the "DC Three" airports that lay within the DC flight restricted zone. One must take a course, get finger printed and have a background check to fly into any of these airports. There are a fair number of local pilots that do this to help keep these airports open.

Collage Park also has nice Museum on the field with some historic aircraft and a Wright B model reproduction. It's a short walk from a Metro stop (although nearly at the end of line, so about 45min from the city center). If any one is interested in actually flying in, I'm pretty sure Helen as CSP could help with that.]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51517#p51517 Fri, 11 May 2018 14:46:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51517#p51517
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51518#p51518
To show how things were different, back then DC had a TCA. My 150 had neither transponder nor encoder. I remember calling Washington Approach from the vicinity of Quantico (lower left below) for traffic advisories, planning to stay clear of or under the TCA.

Image

They cleared me to fly up the river. I advised negative transponder, negative encoder and they said fine, fly up the river and report College Park in sight.

I was probably around 2,000' and had quite a nice view of the Capitol, Washington Monument and the like out my left wing.

Really sad how things have changed.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51518#p51518 Fri, 11 May 2018 15:01:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51518#p51518
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Speaking of oldies and goodies! :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51519#p51519
FastEddieB wrote:
They cleared me to fly up the river. I advised negative transponder, negative encoder and they said fine, fly up the river and report College Park in sight.

I was probably around 2,000' and had quite a nice view of the Capitol, Washington Monument and the like out my left wing.

Really sad how things have changed.


Sad indeed. Flying up the river with no transponder today would likely get you a visit from an F16, or may a military helicopter. There are also a depressing number of airports that no longer exist, thus the interest in keeping the DC 3 around, although I think one has already be sold for development. I'm a relatively new comer to the area, but friends talk about airports that used to be inside the Beltway that no longer exist.

This link http://www.airfields-freeman.com may take a few people down memory lane.
(edit, fixed link)]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51519#p51519 Fri, 11 May 2018 15:59:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5084&p=51519#p51519
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Author Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51559#p51559
Three CH601XL-B Zodiacs on the flightline:
Image

Here's a short video recorded Saturday during the event by Sebastien Heintz, president of Zenith Aircraft.
]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51559#p51559 Tue, 15 May 2018 13:23:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51559#p51559
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51561#p51561

My girlfriend and I try to make annual trips to California's wine country and we've been to the Russian River Valley area wineries. All up and down the 101 in that area and we were just south of Cloverdale on our last trip. We even did a Route 116 wine tour. Beautiful area.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51561#p51561 Tue, 15 May 2018 17:19:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51561#p51561
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51568#p51568 no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51568#p51568 Tue, 15 May 2018 21:02:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51568#p51568 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51571#p51571
Scooper wrote:We've thought about selling our place in San Francisco and moving up to Sonoma County somewhere between Petaluma and Cloverdale (Santa Rosa and Healdsburg are between them). The weather is damn near perfect and the area is gorgeous. I frequently go for long bicycle rides up that way on mostly rural roads without much traffic, and the scenery is awesome.


You cycle too, I knew I liked you. :mrgreen: I rode my first century recently and just did a 70 miler 2 weeks ago up in St. Augustine here in Florida.

The last time we were out your way we rented a VRBO in Petaluma. Great little downtown area. We explored much of Sonoma County, it is just beautiful. And they make wine there. :mrgreen: We drove up through Santa Rosa on our way to some wineries in the Russian River valley. We also went hiking in Armstrong Redwoods Park, what an amazing place.

We passed a few small airports in the Russian River area. Those vintners must have their own aircraft with all those small airports scattered in Sonoma County. Living the dream. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51571#p51571 Tue, 15 May 2018 23:26:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51571#p51571
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51572#p51572 no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51572#p51572 Tue, 15 May 2018 23:58:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51572#p51572 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51574#p51574
Your charity ride looks like a great event and a beautiful ride through California. Although, it makes my century look like a trip around the block, thanks. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51574#p51574 Wed, 16 May 2018 08:11:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51574#p51574
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by Half Fast]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51576#p51576
Scooper wrote:I was born and raised in Jacksonville, and still have a lot of family there. St. Augustine was right down the road (US 1 or A1A, take your pick). My sister is a registered nurse and lived in Dunedin for about ten years before her husband got transferred to Sandia National Laboratory in Albuquerque. Dad spent his career with Arnold, Schwinn & Company as regional sales manager in the southeast U.S., so bicycles are part of my DNA. Until the last couple of years, I did the AIDS/LifeCycle charity ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles every year.



I also was raised in Jax (haven't decided yet where, or if, I'll grow up). West side of town, area called Wesconnet, not too far from Cedar Hills. Graduated from NB Forrest high.

My folks moved out to Middleburg when they retired, and I go up regularly to visit.]]>
no_email@example.com (Half Fast) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51576#p51576 Wed, 16 May 2018 12:08:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51576#p51576
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51578#p51578
Half Fast wrote:My folks moved out to Middleburg when they retired, and I go up regularly to visit.


You're a good son!]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51578#p51578 Wed, 16 May 2018 12:11:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51578#p51578
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51579#p51579
Half Fast wrote:
Scooper wrote:I was born and raised in Jacksonville, and still have a lot of family there. St. Augustine was right down the road (US 1 or A1A, take your pick). My sister is a registered nurse and lived in Dunedin for about ten years before her husband got transferred to Sandia National Laboratory in Albuquerque. Dad spent his career with Arnold, Schwinn & Company as regional sales manager in the southeast U.S., so bicycles are part of my DNA. Until the last couple of years, I did the AIDS/LifeCycle charity ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles every year.



I also was raised in Jax (haven't decided yet where, or if, I'll grow up). West side of town, area called Wesconnet, not too far from Cedar Hills. Graduated from NB Forrest high.

My folks moved out to Middleburg when they retired, and I go up regularly to visit.

Small world. I lived in Lake Shore on Lake Shore Blvd. a couple of blocks from Blanding Blvd, and Cedar Creek was my back yard. I graduated from R. E. Lee H.S. in 1960, and my younger brother (16 months younger) graduated from Forrest.]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51579#p51579 Wed, 16 May 2018 14:49:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51579#p51579
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by Half Fast]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51599#p51599
Scooper wrote:
Half Fast wrote:
Scooper wrote:I was born and raised in Jacksonville, and still have a lot of family there. St. Augustine was right down the road (US 1 or A1A, take your pick). My sister is a registered nurse and lived in Dunedin for about ten years before her husband got transferred to Sandia National Laboratory in Albuquerque. Dad spent his career with Arnold, Schwinn & Company as regional sales manager in the southeast U.S., so bicycles are part of my DNA. Until the last couple of years, I did the AIDS/LifeCycle charity ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles every year.



I also was raised in Jax (haven't decided yet where, or if, I'll grow up). West side of town, area called Wesconnet, not too far from Cedar Hills. Graduated from NB Forrest high.

My folks moved out to Middleburg when they retired, and I go up regularly to visit.

Small world. I lived in Lake Shore on Lake Shore Blvd. a couple of blocks from Blanding Blvd, and Cedar Creek was my back yard. I graduated from R. E. Lee H.S. in 1960, and my younger brother (16 months younger) graduated from Forrest.



My mom graduated from Lee, probably around 1958 or so.

I once knew your area well. If you recall the old Westside Atlantic Bank, near the intersection of Blanding and Wesconnet Blvd, my grandad was VP in the 60s. I used to fish Cedar Creek and Fishing Creek and McGirts Creek as a kid.]]>
no_email@example.com (Half Fast) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51599#p51599 Wed, 16 May 2018 21:33:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51599#p51599
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Quality Sport Planes 'Open Hangar Day' 12 May 2018 at O60 :: Reply by Half Fast]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51600#p51600
drseti wrote:
Half Fast wrote:My folks moved out to Middleburg when they retired, and I go up regularly to visit.


You're a good son!



Nah, just trying to stay in the will. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (Half Fast) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51600#p51600 Wed, 16 May 2018 21:34:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5087&p=51600#p51600
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Earbud Headset question. :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51566#p51566
914Driver wrote:For reference, here's the previous owner wheeling around SF Bay.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h85rh8znh21vbu5/California%20Heavens%20%28low%20res%29.m4v?dl=0

Nice video! I've gotta get a GoPro or Virb. 8)

It looks like he took off from HWD and landed at HAF for lunch.

O.T. Do you drive a Porsche 914?]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51566#p51566 Tue, 15 May 2018 19:53:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51566#p51566
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Earbud Headset question. :: Reply by 914Driver]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51611#p51611 Image]]> no_email@example.com (914Driver) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51611#p51611 Thu, 17 May 2018 08:24:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51611#p51611 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Earbud Headset question. :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51615#p51615
914Driver wrote:I do. My friend retired and was cleaning out the garage for down sizing. He bought this new in 1974 through a girl he was dating that worked for Porsche NA. 57,000 miles on it, 2.0 5speed; been rained on 5 times, never seen snow.
Image



Very nice!]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51615#p51615 Thu, 17 May 2018 09:37:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51615#p51615
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Earbud Headset question. :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51620#p51620
914Driver wrote:I do. My friend retired and was cleaning out the garage for down sizing. He bought this new in 1974 through a girl he was dating that worked for Porsche NA. 57,000 miles on it, 2.0 5speed; been rained on 5 times, never seen snow.
Image

Cool. I bought a 1.7 new in 1970, and then a 1970 914-6 in 1992 that I restored and shoehorned in an '89 3.2. Fantastic cars.

Image

Image

Image]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51620#p51620 Thu, 17 May 2018 10:48:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5042&p=51620#p51620
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by jetcat3]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51656#p51656
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 0518428493

https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/]]>
no_email@example.com (jetcat3) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51656#p51656 Sun, 20 May 2018 16:59:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51656#p51656
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51662#p51662 no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51662#p51662 Mon, 21 May 2018 01:49:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51662#p51662 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51664#p51664
roger lee wrote:All this sounds good, but the 915 can only use a constant speed prop due to its shaft design for oil flow through the shaft to the prop flange. This means no LSA.


I think they are working on the non-constant prop version and in any case, if more power is desired, one can always go for a cheaper version at http://badasspowersports.com ( as long as it is an ELSA)]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51664#p51664 Mon, 21 May 2018 09:29:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51664#p51664
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51667#p51667
I'm actually a bit interested in their big bore and EFI. Don't know that I need the 18 hp but, heck, it's only $$$. Now all I need to do is find a few thousand lying around.... :D]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51667#p51667 Mon, 21 May 2018 10:18:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51667#p51667
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51668#p51668
dstclair wrote:From what I understand, the Edge Performance 912ULS turbo is around $30K with a crate-new 912ULS. Interesting option for those wanting a turbo.

I'm actually a bit interested in their big bore and EFI. Don't know that I need the 18 hp but, heck, it's only $$$. Now all I need to do is find a few thousand lying around.... :D



Actually TL Ultralight already supports in their Master List of Equipment alternative Rotax engine modifications :
http://sportair.aero/category/12-epapower/

I don't know of any other LSA manufacturer that is willing to risk it - in this case, the SA-R915i engine ( 130 HP) is ridiculously expensive at something like 60K so it is not practical at all ... but I am surprised that they allow it in the first place ( since I am sure Rotax is not going to endorse that )]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51668#p51668 Mon, 21 May 2018 10:29:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51668#p51668
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51673#p51673 no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51673#p51673 Mon, 21 May 2018 13:51:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51673#p51673 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51674#p51674
MrMorden wrote:It's sounding like Rotax is touting the "single lever" power + prop control to get away from having a separate prop control. I suspect they are going to petition the FAA for an exemption to the LSA rules based on the fact that a single lever config adds no operational complexity and thus no more pilot workload.


So this "single lever" props is basically a prop with a simple switch where you can pres-elect different cruise/climb pitch stages ?]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51674#p51674 Mon, 21 May 2018 13:56:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51674#p51674
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51676#p51676
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:It's sounding like Rotax is touting the "single lever" power + prop control to get away from having a separate prop control. I suspect they are going to petition the FAA for an exemption to the LSA rules based on the fact that a single lever config adds no operational complexity and thus no more pilot workload.


So this "single lever" props is basically a prop with a simple switch where you can pres-elect different cruise/climb pitch stages ?


No, the prop control is fully controlled by the computer in response to engine power setting. There is one "power" lever, that controls both the engine RPM and the prop setting. There is NO other prop control. It's literally the same operation as a fixed pitch prop.

I'm guessing the mapping does something like going courser in the 55-75% power range, and then going very flat above 80-90%. That would optimize cruise speed in typical cruise settings and optimize climb in full power takeoff and mid-course climbs.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51676#p51676 Mon, 21 May 2018 14:56:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51676#p51676
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51677#p51677 Btw the way FAA operates , by the time a petition like that gets approved/rejected, the issue in question probably will no longer be relevant ...]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51677#p51677 Mon, 21 May 2018 15:28:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51677#p51677 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51678#p51678
MrMorden wrote:I'm guessing the mapping does something like going courser in the 55-75% power range, and then going very flat above 80-90%. That would optimize cruise speed in typical cruise settings and optimize climb in full power takeoff and mid-course climbs.

And with 0% power . . . the prop would feather, to reduce drag, in the event of total power loss.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51678#p51678 Mon, 21 May 2018 15:31:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51678#p51678
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by jetcat3]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51688#p51688
“He also explained that (perhaps surprisingly to some readers) the 915iS compression ratio is lower to allow for the turbo boost. “Stress is actually a little less therefore with the turbo engine,” he said.

Rotax’s 915iS uses the same displacement as the 912iS. In a weight-to-power comparison — grams per kilowatt hour — fuel consumption is only about 6% higher in the more“On the point about an in-flight adjustable or constant speed prop, Rotax Aircraft Engines top boss Thomas Uhr made an important statement when I asked about fixed pitch props on the 915, “All our engines can use fixed pitch props.” As a leader of a public company, he spoke carefully, but the suggestion was clear: Yes, a fixed pitch 915iS is coming, although today the engine is only driving an in-flight adjustable prop.]]>
no_email@example.com (jetcat3) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51688#p51688 Wed, 23 May 2018 11:06:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51688#p51688
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Quattro cruiser :: Author Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51080#p51080 http://www.cruiseraircrafteu.com/en/new ... ser-family

If I am reading it right , there will be a 4 seater, certified sport cruiser version with 200 HP engine , IFR certified ...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51080#p51080 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 22:50:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51080#p51080
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51082#p51082
Warmi wrote:How about that ... If I am reading it right , there will be a 4 seater, certified sport cruiser version with 200 HP engine , IFR certified ...

Good luck on trying to obtain any LOA's.
That company is a mess.
Lots of marketing . . . no support.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51082#p51082 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 22:55:49 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51082#p51082
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51085#p51085
Warmi wrote:How about that ...
http://www.cruiseraircrafteu.com/en/new ... ser-family

If I am reading it right , there will be a 4 seater, certified sport cruiser version with 200 HP engine , IFR certified ...


Last I heard at a trade show across the pond it's still just a prototype. They are "testing the waters" so to speak. They tried this a few years back with a tail dragger and some other plane that to me looked like a toy, neither one made it into production. :mrgreen:

I own a SportCruiser, E-LSA now of course for the same reasons Wm.Ince pointed out, ZERO support. I couldn't agree more with his post.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51085#p51085 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 23:24:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51085#p51085
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51086#p51086 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51086#p51086 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 23:17:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51086#p51086 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51087#p51087
ShawnM wrote:. . . I own a SportCruiser, E-LSA now of course . . .

Smart move on your part, Shawn.
If I owned one, I would have done the same thing.
That withstanding, the SportCruiser is still a sharp looking airplane.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51087#p51087 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 23:45:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51087#p51087
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51088#p51088
The cruise speed - 149 kts - seems a little slow for such a sleek plane with a Lycoming 540. I wonder why that is. A Cirrus SR20 does a bit better than that - 155 kts - with a much smaller engine, a Continental 360. An SR22 with a similarly-sized Continental IO550 easily does 170 kts plus.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51088#p51088 Tue, 01 May 2018 07:58:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51088#p51088
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by jetcat3]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51089#p51089 no_email@example.com (jetcat3) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51089#p51089 Tue, 01 May 2018 07:32:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51089#p51089 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51091#p51091
It also said that "performance has yet to be proven" on the Quattro Cruiser so take everything you read with a grain of salt. Meaning it hasn't flown yet. And it'll be released here in the US as a 4 seat "experimental" with a price tag of $400,000. Again, really?

I can buy TWO gently used Cirrus for that much money and I dont have to spend 3 years building either one. :mrgreen:

Oh, and as Eddie pointed out, go faster in the Cirrus.

If Czech Sport Aircraft would FOCUS on the SportCruiser and it's CUSTOMERS they really could be a dominant player in the LSA market. They have consistently been in the top 3 manufacturers of light sport market share for as long as Dan Johnson has been doing his survey. Flight Design and CubCrafters are the other two big players. Cessna is in there but out of the LSA business anyway. Sorry Cessna.

CSA keeps putting bandaids on issues that pop up instead of actually listening to its customers and really taking care of the issues. The complete lack of support for its customers also steers people in other directions and into converting to E-LSA. They dont listen to customers, they dont allow ANY changes (LOA or MRA) and they won't address the current issues, instead they push it to the back burner and design a 4 seat aircraft.

I LOVE my airplane, the SportCruiser is beautiful in many ways, I just HATE the company. Is that obvious? :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51091#p51091 Tue, 01 May 2018 07:53:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51091#p51091
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51093#p51093
jetcat3 wrote:I’m honestly shocked they didn’t utilize and build this airplane around the 915 iS. Seems like the perfect engine for this airplane given the weights as they are similar to the Sling 4.


915iS is 135hp. The IO-540 they are using is 350hp. The lowest powered engine they are using is 200hp. The 915iS is not even in the same galaxy for what they are trying to do.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51093#p51093 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:12:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51093#p51093
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51094#p51094
ShawnM wrote:
I can buy TWO gently used Cirrus for that much money and I dont have to spend 3 years building either one. :mrgreen:



I take your point, but it's not really fair to compare a new airplane with a used one, given how much they depreciate in the short term. A new Cirrus SR22 is easily $550-700k. So you could say you are "saving" $150-300k by building...

It's cool if you think the airplane is a turd, just trying to keep you honest on the apples v apples. ;)]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51094#p51094 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:16:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51094#p51094
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51097#p51097 and I only can claim 30 minutes flight time but I preferred Evektor , Sting and best of them all , Sling 2.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51097#p51097 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:20:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51097#p51097 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51098#p51098
Warmi wrote:To be frank, all of the low wings I have tried , SportCruiser was my least favorite ... it does look very cool from outside but just didn't feel right - very subjective I know :D . I preferred Evektor , Sting and best of them all , Sling 2.


I did not love my one checkout flight in a SportCruiser. It was super light on controls and very "floaty" on landing. But I'm sure once you get used to it it's fine. A lot of "liking" a particular airplane comes down to what you're used to I think.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51098#p51098 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:23:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51098#p51098
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51100#p51100
MrMorden wrote:I take your point, but it's not really fair to compare a new airplane with a used one, given how much they depreciate in the short term. A new Cirrus SR22 is easily $550-700k. So you could say you are "saving" $150-300k by building...


Are you really saving $150-300K? Are you telling us your time is worth nothing?]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51100#p51100 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:27:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51100#p51100
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51101#p51101
MrMorden wrote:
Warmi wrote:To be frank, all of the low wings I have tried , SportCruiser was my least favorite ... it does look very cool from outside but just didn't feel right - very subjective I know :D . I preferred Evektor , Sting and best of them all , Sling 2.


I did not love my one checkout flight in a SportCruiser. It was super light on controls and very "floaty" on landing. But I'm sure once you get used to it it's fine. A lot of "liking" a particular airplane comes down to what you're used to I think.


Yeah ,I am sure I would get used to it as well ... there is got to be a good reason why SportCruisers are so popular ...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51101#p51101 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:34:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51101#p51101
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51102#p51102
My instructor had an Evektor but I never flew it. I was able to train in my own SportCruiser. :mrgreen:

30 minutes in a SportCruiser? Does that really count? Was that one trip around the pattern? I wouldn't say you actually "flew" a SportCruiser then. Just sayin' :mrgreen:

The Sling 2 is a nice looking plane, looks a lot like the SportCruiser, but I've never flown one.

If my pockets had no bottom or weren't just filled with lint I really love the new Tecnam P2002 Sierra MkII. Never flown on though.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51102#p51102 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:41:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51102#p51102
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51103#p51103
But ... it is an imperfect world and I am glad I got that 30 minutes to begin with :-)

My story is kind of similar to yours ...I did my initial training in Remos GX and then finished it up in my own Sting S4 ( I had my check-ride a month ago - still waiting for my official papers and flying with a printout ) :D]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51103#p51103 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:47:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51103#p51103
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51104#p51104
ShawnM wrote:
MrMorden wrote:I take your point, but it's not really fair to compare a new airplane with a used one, given how much they depreciate in the short term. A new Cirrus SR22 is easily $550-700k. So you could say you are "saving" $150-300k by building...


Are you really saving $150-300K? Are you telling us your time is worth nothing?


2000 hours of my time is not worth $300k, or that would be my salary. YMMV.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51104#p51104 Tue, 01 May 2018 09:28:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51104#p51104
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51105#p51105
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:
Warmi wrote:To be frank, all of the low wings I have tried , SportCruiser was my least favorite ... it does look very cool from outside but just didn't feel right - very subjective I know :D . I preferred Evektor , Sting and best of them all , Sling 2.


I did not love my one checkout flight in a SportCruiser. It was super light on controls and very "floaty" on landing. But I'm sure once you get used to it it's fine. A lot of "liking" a particular airplane comes down to what you're used to I think.


Yeah ,I am sure I would get used to it as well ... there is got to be a good reason why SportCruisers are so popular ...


I think the SC appeal is at least partially "sex appeal"...it's a very good looking airplane. It has other nice qualities as well, and it seems to be a well-built airplane. But if you are deciding to buy something "egglike" like my CT, or a SC that looks like it's doing 200mph standing still, then all other factors being equal the sexy airplane will probably win that fight.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51105#p51105 Tue, 01 May 2018 09:32:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51105#p51105
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51106#p51106
ShawnM wrote:And I agree that our preferences come down to what we are used to. I only have time in a Remos and my SportCruiser. I love how responsive it is and early on I did have some floating issues during landing but those go away with time. After a couple hours I was completely comfortable in the plane.

My instructor had an Evektor but I never flew it. I was able to train in my own SportCruiser. :mrgreen:

30 minutes in a SportCruiser? Does that really count? Was that one trip around the pattern? I wouldn't say you actually "flew" a SportCruiser then. Just sayin' :mrgreen:

The Sling 2 is a nice looking plane, looks a lot like the SportCruiser, but I've never flown one.

If my pockets had no bottom or weren't just filled with lint I really love the new Tecnam P2002 Sierra MkII. Never flown on though.


Folks say my CTSW controls feel heavy compared to other LSA (and they do), but I am completely used to it so that to me is "normal". I'm sure you can tame the float in the SC by being on speed and knowing the airplane.

I said one flight, not 30min. It was about 1.5hr and included steep turns, stalls, ground reference maneuvers, and 3 takeoffs and landings all done by me. It was not unpleasant, it just felt very light and the airplane didn't really want to come down to land. That can be a good quality as you can probably land it very slowly.

I don't like the look of the Evektor, the shape of the canopy looks like it wants to pin your arms down and put plexi six inches from your nose (though I'm sure that's not the case). The Tecnams are wonderful flying airplanes, I did half of my training in one. Very stable and predictable.

EDIT: Whoops, you meant Warmi when you said 30min. I got confused because in the first part of your post you reference something I said. sorry about that.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51106#p51106 Tue, 01 May 2018 09:43:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51106#p51106
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51107#p51107
MrMorden wrote:I think the SC appeal is at least partially "sex appeal"...it's a very good looking airplane. It has other nice qualities as well, and it seems to be a well-built airplane. But if you are deciding to buy something "egglike" like my CT, or a SC that looks like it's doing 200mph standing still, then all other factors being equal the sexy airplane will probably win that fight.


I'll admit, that's what drew me to the SportCruiser in the first place, her sex appeal. That's why I named my SportCruiser "Ginger", from Gilligan's Island, remember? My girlfriend still gives me a hard time to this day when I tell her I'm going to visit Ginger for a few hours.

Sure MaryAnn was cute and fun but wouldn't you want to take Ginger home? :mrgreen:

We all have our own taste, likes and dislikes and at the end of the day we are all happy with our decision, right?]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51107#p51107 Tue, 01 May 2018 09:41:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51107#p51107
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51109#p51109
MrMorden wrote:Folks say my CTSW controls feel heavy compared to other LSA (and they do), but I am completely used to it so that to me is "normal". I'm sure you can tame the float in the SC by being on speed and knowing the airplane.

I said one flight, not 30min. It was about 1.5hr and included steep turns, stalls, ground reference maneuvers, and 3 takeoffs and landings all done by me. It was not unpleasant, it just felt very light and the airplane didn't really want to come down to land. That can be a good quality as you can probably land it very slowly.

I don't like the look of the Evektor, the shape of the canopy looks like it wants to pin your arms down and put plexi six inches from your nose (though I'm sure that's not the case). The Tecnams are wonderful flying airplanes, I did half of my training in one. Very stable and predictable.

EDIT: Whoops, you meant Warmi when you said 30min. I got confused because in the first part of your post you reference something I said. sorry about that.


Andy, yup, the 30 minute comment was directed to Warmi, he said 30 minutes. Sorry for the confusion. :mrgreen:

And yes, I can get down around 50 kts if needed when landing the plane on a calm day. It's nice and gentle on Ginger.

I agree with you on the Evektor, I also dont like the look, the canopy kills it for me.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51109#p51109 Tue, 01 May 2018 09:48:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51109#p51109
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by jetcat3]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51110#p51110
MrMorden wrote:
jetcat3 wrote:I’m honestly shocked they didn’t utilize and build this airplane around the 915 iS. Seems like the perfect engine for this airplane given the weights as they are similar to the Sling 4.


915iS is 135hp. The IO-540 they are using is 350hp. The lowest powered engine they are using is 200hp. The 915iS is not even in the same galaxy for what they are trying to do.


First of all, the 915 iS is 141 HP max, 135 HP continuous. The engine most assuredly is suitable if it was designed for it in the beginning. The Sling 4 has a very similar empty weight and they are able to achieve 700 ft/min climbs with four 200 pound adults and 140 knots true at altitude with only a Rotax 914. The 915 iS just makes that aircraft even more capable with more useful load to boot. The 915 iS can take 135 HP all the way to 15,000ft. At high altitudes it would easily compete if not beat the UL 520i engine. Installed weight of this engine is 264 lbs, quite a bit more than the 915 iS even with all of its accompanying equipment.

I’ve had the privilege of flying in Sportcruisers almost everyday for multiple hours instructing in the last seven months and I really feel as though I’m intimate with the airplane now. A weird word to use I know. The Sportcruiser does have it’s flaws, and the handling is a bit too sensitive than I’d like for new students to learn on, but it is an extremely docile aircraft and pretty easy to land once you get a feel for it. Even practicing the commercial maneuvers is so easy in the Sportcruiser. Chandelles, Lazy Eights, Eights on Pylons, and even accelerated stalls are so benign and gentle. It can consistently make an engine out 180 degree impossible turn while only losing 100 ft of altitude. It is indeed very maneuverable. I just wish the factory was actually open to giving a crap and be willing to improve the product instead of giving us fluff and hiring their show girls to distract us at airshows.

I recently took a flight in a Bristell and I was extremely impressed. The airfoil they use, the shortened wing, all helped smooth out bumps and turbulence and the handling was quite a bit heavier than the Sportcruiser. It seemed more refined than the Sportcruiser. I really enjoyed flying the Bristell, and my favorite part about it was the sight picture out of the cockpit. You sit higher in your seat and the panel has been lowered in comparison to the Sportcruiser. Without a booster seat, most of our students just stare at the panel in the Sportcruiser. As a result, they like to dip the nose to have better visibility out the nose and we then lose altitude. The Bristell fixes this and it did have some of the best visibility for a low wing that I’ve seen.

It has been eye opening to have flown various SLSA’s and learn how they handle and respond. For the most part, they are quite similar in general terms, but it also amazes me how different some feel and handle in different situations. To this day, I can’t get over the handling of the Tecnam P2008, not only with its feel and feedback on the controls but also the way it takes bumps and gusts via its laminar airfoil. The Sling 4 was another that just had buttery feedback and control and was so well balanced along all of its axis.]]>
no_email@example.com (jetcat3) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51110#p51110 Tue, 01 May 2018 09:52:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51110#p51110
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51111#p51111 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51111#p51111 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:01:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51111#p51111 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51116#p51116
jetcat3 wrote:I’ve had the privilege of flying in Sportcruisers almost everyday for multiple hours instructing in the last seven months and I really feel as though I’m intimate with the airplane now. A weird word to use I know. The Sportcruiser does have it’s flaws, and the handling is a bit too sensitive than I’d like for new students to learn on, but it is an extremely docile aircraft and pretty easy to land once you get a feel for it. Even practicing the commercial maneuvers is so easy in the Sportcruiser. Chandelles, Lazy Eights, Eights on Pylons, and even accelerated stalls are so benign and gentle. It can consistently make an engine out 180 degree impossible turn while only losing 100 ft of altitude. It is indeed very maneuverable. I just wish the factory was actually open to giving a crap and be willing to improve the product instead of giving us fluff and hiring their show girls to distract us at airshows.


Thanks for the great response jetcat3.

After I bought my SportCruiser I read that it doesn't make the best aircraft for training in, I thought oh no, what did I just do? :o As I bought it to get my SPL.

I think it handles very well and very easy to maneuver because it's so responsive. Very little effort to get it to do anything. Stalls are a non event, all variations of them. I'll admit I haven't experimented with the impossible turn yet. My old instructor and I were just talking about this with another new SportCruiser owner last week.

As far as the factory, your comment nailed it. Thank you. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51116#p51116 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:24:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51116#p51116
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51122#p51122
MrMorden wrote:.... The Tecnams are wonderful flying airplanes, I did half of my training in one. Very stable and predictable.



Why CTSW then and not 2008 or the Eaglet ?]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51122#p51122 Tue, 01 May 2018 12:39:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51122#p51122
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51123#p51123
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:.... The Tecnams are wonderful flying airplanes, I did half of my training in one. Very stable and predictable.



Why CTSW then and not 2008 or the Eaglet ?


Speed, useful load, features, and price. At the time I was looking I would have loved a P92, but they were rarely for sale. I wanted utility over anything else, so I picked the LSA with the best bang for my buck.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51123#p51123 Tue, 01 May 2018 12:43:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51123#p51123
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51126#p51126 ]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51126#p51126 Tue, 01 May 2018 13:06:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51126#p51126 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51127#p51127
Warmi wrote:One day we should probably all get together in some neutral location with our planes and collectively decide once for all which one is the uber-LSA :D


How about Page, AZ for the CT/LSA fly-in in October? :D]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51127#p51127 Tue, 01 May 2018 13:26:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51127#p51127
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51128#p51128 Not sure if I will be ready - with only 100 hours to my name , I need some serious cross country practice before I am comfortable to go on this type of journey ( for instance your unexpected Texas MFVR diversions going back home comes to mind )
Will probably start with something simple like flying around lake Michigan in a weekend hehe..]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51128#p51128 Tue, 01 May 2018 13:57:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51128#p51128
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51129#p51129
Warmi wrote:Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. Have seen your videos and it looks like awesome way to spend a few days buzzing around some truly spectacular terrain.
Not sure if I will be ready - with only 100 hours to my name , I need some serious cross country practice before I am comfortable to go on this type of journey ( for instance your unexpected Texas MFVR diversions going back home comes to mind )
Will probably start with something simple like flying around lake Michigan in a weekend hehe..


If you can hook up with a more experienced pilot and fly a two-ship out, or both of you in your airplane, that is a very reassuring way to do a long cross country your first couple of times. It gives you another set of eyes and somebody to bounce ideas and decisions off of.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51129#p51129 Tue, 01 May 2018 14:05:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51129#p51129
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51132#p51132
Warmi wrote:One day we should probably all get together in some neutral location with our planes and collectively decide once for all which one is the uber-LSA :D


Some of us routinely do just that at Sport Aviation Expo in Sebring every January. Don't know if that's ever changed anybody's mind, though.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51132#p51132 Tue, 01 May 2018 14:53:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51132#p51132
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51133#p51133
drseti wrote:
Warmi wrote:One day we should probably all get together in some neutral location with our planes and collectively decide once for all which one is the uber-LSA :D


Some of us routinely do just that at Sport Aviation Expo in Sebring every January. Don't know if that's ever changed anybody's mind, though.


My understanding is that Sebring, as well as Mt Vernon, are trade shows not fly ins. I've been Mt Vernon once, never Sebring.
Are the are any fly-ins dedicated Light Sport. Is seems almost an oxymoron given the speed of the planes, but a regional fly-in might be possible.]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51133#p51133 Tue, 01 May 2018 15:03:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51133#p51133
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51134#p51134
rsteele wrote:My understanding is that Sebring, as well as Mt Vernon, are trade shows not fly ins. I've been Mt Vernon once, never Sebring.
Are the are any fly-ins dedicated Light Sport. Is seems almost an oxymoron given the speed of the planes, but a regional fly-in might be possible.


Of course it's a trade show, they all are but that doesn't mean you can't "fly-in" and meet up with other pilots from your favorite forum. :mrgreen:

At least they both are LSA shows with more emphasis on light sport. Rather than a SNF where it's ALL aircraft big and small or even an Oshkosh.

And I dont see how Page is "central" for those on the east coast. Although as pointed out the scenery looks amazing.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51134#p51134 Tue, 01 May 2018 15:14:44 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51134#p51134
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51136#p51136
MrMorden wrote:
Warmi wrote:Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. Have seen your videos and it looks like awesome way to spend a few days buzzing around some truly spectacular terrain.
Not sure if I will be ready - with only 100 hours to my name , I need some serious cross country practice before I am comfortable to go on this type of journey ( for instance your unexpected Texas MFVR diversions going back home comes to mind )
Will probably start with something simple like flying around lake Michigan in a weekend hehe..


If you can hook up with a more experienced pilot and fly a two-ship out, or both of you in your airplane, that is a very reassuring way to do a long cross country your first couple of times. It gives you another set of eyes and somebody to bounce ideas and decisions off of.


So ...anybody within 300 miles of Chicago planning to go to AZ fly-in this year ?
Oh ... one more thing ... no noobs please ... that spot is already taken ...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51136#p51136 Tue, 01 May 2018 16:02:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51136#p51136
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51164#p51164 ]]> no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51164#p51164 Wed, 02 May 2018 13:29:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51164#p51164 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51166#p51166
MrMorden wrote:Two noobs is better than one... :D



I guess ... although I have seen what a flight of 3-4 noobs ( student pilots ) does to a D class airport where, to make things worse, controllers are FAA trainees themselves ...

It is hilarious ... in a scary sort of way.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51166#p51166 Wed, 02 May 2018 14:30:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51166#p51166
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51168#p51168
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Two noobs is better than one... :D



I guess ... although I have seen what a flight of 3-4 noobs ( student pilots ) does to a D class airport where, to make things worse, controllers are FAA trainees themselves ...

It is hilarious ... in a scary sort of way.


We have lots of foreign student pilots here, we should swap stories sometime. :)]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51168#p51168 Wed, 02 May 2018 15:26:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51168#p51168
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51170#p51170
MrMorden wrote:
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Two noobs is better than one... :D



I guess ... although I have seen what a flight of 3-4 noobs ( student pilots ) does to a D class airport where, to make things worse, controllers are FAA trainees themselves ...

It is hilarious ... in a scary sort of way.


We have lots of foreign student pilots here, we should swap stories sometime. :)


No problem .. although , it is gonna be a bit awkward for me since the above experience I mentioned comes from me being part of that group of 3-4 noobs making life miserable for everyone at that airport ...
Anyway , I have already talked to my wife and she is up for going to AZ - she have seen me fly her around multiple times by now and the fact the she is still willing is pretty encouraging.
In fact, she is starting her own private Pilot training , which is very cool, although I am having hard time deciphering if this is because she likes to fly with me and the way I am flying or maybe the other way around ....]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51170#p51170 Wed, 02 May 2018 15:52:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51170#p51170
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51172#p51172
Warmi wrote:I keep hearing that Sling 4 seems a bit under powered with the 914 ... I am sure it would feel much better with the new 915is - but even then , this is not the same category as Cirrus nor is it trying to be - it is definitely lighter and slower plane while the new SportCruiser Quattro seems to be aiming at the lower end of Cirrus market.


It’s also a heck of a lot cheaper... :D]]>
no_email@example.com (Sling 2 Pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51172#p51172 Wed, 02 May 2018 16:05:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51172#p51172
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Quattro cruiser :: Reply by jetcat3]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51240#p51240 no_email@example.com (jetcat3) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51240#p51240 Thu, 03 May 2018 13:02:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5074&p=51240#p51240 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Sling 2 build / Midwest Sky Sports :: Reply by cam737]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5062&p=51243#p51243
Warmi, I hope "featured" doesn't hurt Sling sales!!!!! :) ;)

Attachments



image3 copy.jpg (117.89 KiB)


]]>
no_email@example.com (cam737) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5062&p=51243#p51243 Thu, 03 May 2018 13:18:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5062&p=51243#p51243
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Engine/motor :: Author ScottyB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51396#p51396
Max. Gross Takeoff Weight: 1,320 lbs (600 kg) or 1,430 lbs for seaplanes (650 kg)
Max. Stall Speed: 51 mph / 45 knots CAS
Max. Speed in Level Flight (at sea level In the US Standard Atmosphere):138 mph / 120 knots CAS
Seats: Two (max.)
Engines / Motors: One (max. if powered.)
Propeller: Fixed-pitch or ground adjustable
Cabin: Unpressurized
Fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.
Landing Gear: Fixed (except for seaplanes and gliders) this is from the light sport rule
An engine is a reciprocating power unit and a motor is under definition: electric. If that is so why do they list Motors as:one
But in other paragraphs in light sport the electric motor is disallowed?]]>
no_email@example.com (ScottyB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51396#p51396 Sun, 06 May 2018 20:19:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51396#p51396
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51397#p51397 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51397#p51397 Sun, 06 May 2018 22:58:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51397#p51397 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51401#p51401
(a) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered


That FAR does not include the word "motor," but it does include "reciprocating." An electric motor (even if you call it an engine) is rotary, not reciprocating. So, that pretty well rules out electric power.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51401#p51401 Mon, 07 May 2018 09:18:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51401#p51401
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51402#p51402
TimTaylor wrote:Until/unless someone builds one, it's moot.


And no one will build or develop one for the US market until the regulation is changed. As pointed out the regulation says reciprocating engine. This was done to prevent someone from trying to install a small turbine engine. The FAA wanted LSA to be a simple to operate aircraft. The problem with the wording in the regulation it also prohibits the use of an electric motor. There are already aircraft out there with an electric motor, Yuneec and Pipistrel for example would be a contender. There has been a push to get the regulation changed to allow for electric aircraft, but the FAA is slow to move.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51402#p51402 Mon, 07 May 2018 09:40:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51402#p51402
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51404#p51404
I think it would be so much better to have FAA concern itself with defining performance standards and not implementations.
In other words , it should define performance characteristics that define a class of aircraft without defining exactly how it should be implemented - the way it is currently done pretty much guarantees that by the time they get around to approve some new technology and include it in their regulations - the market is already 2 generations ahead ( this is especially true with avionics )]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51404#p51404 Mon, 07 May 2018 11:07:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51404#p51404
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51405#p51405 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51405#p51405 Mon, 07 May 2018 13:31:13 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51405#p51405 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51406#p51406
TimTaylor wrote:Seems like, if someone had something worthwhile, they could partition the FAA and get the regulation changed. IDK.


https://www.wired.com/2015/09/blame-faa ... airplanes/]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51406#p51406 Mon, 07 May 2018 14:21:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51406#p51406
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51407#p51407
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Seems like, if someone had something worthwhile, they could partition the FAA and get the regulation changed. IDK.


https://www.wired.com/2015/09/blame-faa ... airplanes/

I'm not sure I necessarily buy the argument that the FAA is the problem. Has anyone developed an electric motor option that will fly 400 nm on a charge, then plug into a regular 120v ac circuit and recharge 100 percent in an hour? Until they do, I don't see there is anything the FAA needs to change. If it already exist, then I agree the FAA needs to approve it.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51407#p51407 Mon, 07 May 2018 14:33:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51407#p51407
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51408#p51408 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51408#p51408 Mon, 07 May 2018 14:32:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51408#p51408 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51409#p51409
Warmi wrote:This is akin to some kind of government agency mandating that all computers need to be powered by Intel 2xxx family of processors (state of the art circa 1987 ) ... How fast would computer technology progress if every time Intel ( and everyone else for that matter ) were to be required to petition that agency to make the regulatory change and then wait X numbers of years for this to happen ...

Not even close.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51409#p51409 Mon, 07 May 2018 14:43:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51409#p51409
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51410#p51410 Blame your peer's and not the FAA.]]> no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51410#p51410 Mon, 07 May 2018 14:58:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51410#p51410 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51411#p51411
roger lee wrote:Just so you know the FAA didn't make those rules. It was the LSA committee members which included the EAA and AOPA along with aircraft Mfg's, engine Mfg's and other interested parties. There used to be about 150 of them. Probably not that many any more.
Blame your peer's and not the FAA.


In general true, but in this particular case, I'm not sure this is true. I forget if it was the Green Dot (EAA podcast) or Airplane Geeks, but one of them recently had a guest who worked on the committee. Apparently "reciprocating" was not in the draft and was added at the FAA's request with little thought of the future. He agreed the restriction was unfortunate and should be changed.]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51411#p51411 Mon, 07 May 2018 15:10:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51411#p51411
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51412#p51412
roger lee wrote:Just so you know the FAA didn't make those rules. It was the LSA committee members which included the EAA and AOPA along with aircraft Mfg's, engine Mfg's and other interested parties. There used to be about 150 of them. Probably not that many any more.
Blame your peer's and not the FAA.


I am pretty sure if the LSA committee ended up setting something like 250 knots speed limit and maximum of 4 engines ( reciprocating or not ) , FAA wouldn't just accept it ... :)]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51412#p51412 Mon, 07 May 2018 15:17:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51412#p51412
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51413#p51413 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51413#p51413 Mon, 07 May 2018 15:41:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51413#p51413 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51414#p51414 Since technology changes constantly, it is simply unwise to codify implementations and frankly there is nothing to be gained by doing so.
If the goal is to limit Light Sport planes to certain category of simple and low performance planes, it is sufficient to llist/limit their performance capabilities and let the market decide what is the best way to achieve that.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51414#p51414 Mon, 07 May 2018 15:48:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51414#p51414
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51415#p51415
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Seems like, if someone had something worthwhile, they could partition the FAA and get the regulation changed. IDK.


https://www.wired.com/2015/09/blame-faa ... airplanes/

I'm not sure I necessarily buy the argument that the FAA is the problem. Has anyone developed an electric motor option that will fly 400 nm on a charge, then plug into a regular 120v ac circuit and recharge 100 percent in an hour? Until they do, I don't see there is anything the FAA needs to change. If it already exist, then I agree the FAA needs to approve it.


You say develop something and then ask the FAA to change the rule. I ask why would anyone risk the cost of development to design and build something that the current rules will not allow, risking everything on hopes the FAA might change the rule?]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51415#p51415 Mon, 07 May 2018 15:54:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51415#p51415
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by ScottyB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51416#p51416 no_email@example.com (ScottyB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51416#p51416 Mon, 07 May 2018 16:05:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51416#p51416 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by ScottyB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51417#p51417 https://youtu.be/pbZCPtNXO38
This is technically an electric flying ultralight]]>
no_email@example.com (ScottyB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51417#p51417 Mon, 07 May 2018 16:16:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51417#p51417
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51418#p51418
Warmi wrote:That’s not the point.
Since technology changes constantly, it is simply unwise to codify implementations and frankly there is nothing to be gained by doing so.
If the goal is to limit Light Sport planes to certain category of simple and low performance planes, it is sufficient to llist/limit their performance capabilities and let the market decide what is the best way to achieve that.

But that's my point. Unless electric is viable, it's moot. Why don't they allow nuclear powered?]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51418#p51418 Mon, 07 May 2018 16:55:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51418#p51418
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51419#p51419
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:

I'm not sure I necessarily buy the argument that the FAA is the problem. Has anyone developed an electric motor option that will fly 400 nm on a charge, then plug into a regular 120v ac circuit and recharge 100 percent in an hour? Until they do, I don't see there is anything the FAA needs to change. If it already exist, then I agree the FAA needs to approve it.


You say develop something and then ask the FAA to change the rule. I ask why would anyone risk the cost of development to design and build something that the current rules will not allow, risking everything on hopes the FAA might change the rule?

Develop on paper and computer. If it's viable, ask the FAA to change the rule.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51419#p51419 Mon, 07 May 2018 16:58:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51419#p51419
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51420#p51420
ScottyB wrote:https://youtu.be/pbZCPtNXO38
This is technically an electric flying ultralight

Will that fly 400nm in 4 hours and recharge in 1 hour. I'll be interested when it can.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51420#p51420 Mon, 07 May 2018 17:03:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51420#p51420
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51423#p51423
TimTaylor wrote:
ScottyB wrote:https://youtu.be/pbZCPtNXO38
This is technically an electric flying ultralight

Will that fly 400nm in 4 hours and recharge in 1 hour. I'll be interested when it can.


Pipistrel has a two seat electric trainer already in production. It doesn't meat your performance requirements, but then again that is not what it was designed for. Your requirements would limit development of everything except a cross country cruisers. Why limit development to only 100 knot plus aircraft with 4 hours endurance? Is an hour plus flight in the flight training environment not worthy of development?]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51423#p51423 Mon, 07 May 2018 17:49:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51423#p51423
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by ScottyB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51424#p51424 If electric was able to be used in light sport, it could be further developed
Personally I like to get in my plane fly up at 50 miles from my home airport to another Airport have coffee and check the job with the guys for maybe hour and a half and in that time my plane could be recharged and ready for the return flight home
A lot cheaper than 91 octane or av gas even maybe even get a few extra miles if you have solar generators on the wings]]>
no_email@example.com (ScottyB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51424#p51424 Mon, 07 May 2018 18:59:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51424#p51424
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51425#p51425 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51425#p51425 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:04:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51425#p51425 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51426#p51426 Everyone on the committee will be 55 or older and they would decide to have it weigh at least 850 lbs and have an old Continental up front.]]> no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51426#p51426 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:05:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51426#p51426 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51427#p51427 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51427#p51427 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:07:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51427#p51427 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51428#p51428 no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51428#p51428 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:09:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51428#p51428 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51429#p51429
ScottyB wrote:The Light Sport Aircraft Rule: The FAA defines a light sport aircraft as an aircraft, other than a helicopter or Powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:[6]

Max. Gross Takeoff Weight: 1,320 lbs (600 kg) or 1,430 lbs for seaplanes (650 kg)
Max. Stall Speed: 51 mph / 45 knots CAS
Max. Speed in Level Flight (at sea level In the US Standard Atmosphere):138 mph / 120 knots CAS
Seats: Two (max.)
Engines / Motors: One (max. if powered.)
Propeller: Fixed-pitch or ground adjustable
Cabin: Unpressurized
Fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.
Landing Gear: Fixed (except for seaplanes and gliders) this is from the light sport rule
An engine is a reciprocating power unit and a motor is under definition: electric. If that is so why do they list Motors as:one
But in other paragraphs in light sport the electric motor is disallowed?
]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51429#p51429 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:14:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51429#p51429
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51430#p51430
https://www.tesla.com/roadster

He also has a Ford GT.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51430#p51430 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:20:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51430#p51430
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51431#p51431
https://electrek.co/2018/04/27/all-elec ... on-faa-us/
https://thebusinessjournal.com/electric ... le-change/]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51431#p51431 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:26:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51431#p51431
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by ScottyB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51432#p51432 https://youtu.be/fiu8TFnXYFY German built where they allow light sport to have electric motors]]> no_email@example.com (ScottyB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51432#p51432 Mon, 07 May 2018 19:40:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51432#p51432 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51433#p51433 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51433#p51433 Mon, 07 May 2018 20:03:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51433#p51433 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51434#p51434
TimTaylor wrote:This discussion reminds me of the Tesla. It's a great car (I think), but it doesn't seem like a lot of people are willing to pay a high price for a great car with a limited range. They are getting better, however. My oncologist has a model S and paid $250,000 cash in advance for one of these to be delivered in 2020:

https://www.tesla.com/roadster

He also has a Ford GT.


Did you just contradicted you own argument? People who try them love electric vehicles. I have an electric car, a Bolt, and never want to go back to gasoline. There are just too many benefits to the electric. Does if fit all my needs? No, but it fits 90% of them far far better than a gas guzzler and I can rent (and have) for long trips and still come out ahead. I predict this is where flight training will go with electric. Pattern work and short lessons in electric because it's WAY cheaper and longer flights in a conventionally powered plane. I think the economics will force this to happen at some point a few years down the road. The cost of the battery is pretty prohibited in a car, but is comparable to an aircraft engine and should have a much longer life between overhaul/replacement. The electric motor is essentially maintenance free. The wear and tear on the airframe is a lot less because there is little to no vibration. The cost of fuel for a 1 hour flight should be around one dollar.

At any rate it will be interesting to watch evolve.]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51434#p51434 Tue, 08 May 2018 16:06:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51434#p51434
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51435#p51435
rsteele wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:This discussion reminds me of the Tesla. It's a great car (I think), but it doesn't seem like a lot of people are willing to pay a high price for a great car with a limited range. They are getting better, however. My oncologist has a model S and paid $250,000 cash in advance for one of these to be delivered in 2020:

https://www.tesla.com/roadster

He also has a Ford GT.


Did you just contradicted you own argument? I have an electric car, a Bolt

No, I didn't. How many Bolts do we see driving around? How many people want to rent a car every time they want to go somewhere? Again, the current electric technology may be marginally acceptable for a flight school who wants to train in 1 hour increments, but that's it. To be commercially successful for most pilots, electric airplanes are going to need to get quite a bit better in terms of range, endurance, and useful load with larger/more batteries. How can anyone argue that is not the case? It's wishful thinking that may happen some day. Maybe not.

My point is, the FAA is not the problem. The current state of the technology is the problem.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51435#p51435 Tue, 08 May 2018 16:41:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51435#p51435
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51436#p51436
TimTaylor wrote:No, I didn't. How many Bolts do we see driving around? How many people want to rent a car every time they want to go somewhere? Again, the current electric technology may be marginally acceptable for a flight school who wants to train in 1 hour increments, but that's it. To be commercially successful for most pilots, electric airplanes are going to need to get quite a bit better in terms of range, endurance, and useful load with larger/more batteries. How can anyone argue that is not the case? It's wishful thinking that may happen some day. Maybe not.

My point is, the FAA is not the problem. The current state of the technology is the problem.


I agree that the technology has a ways to go to make electric aircraft acceptable to a large majority, but the current rule is stopping what is currently available from being used. If the rules won't let you use the marginally acceptable aircraft that are already available, why bother developing anything else?

Regulations that restrict the use of something does not provide a healthy atmosphere for development of anything]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51436#p51436 Tue, 08 May 2018 17:20:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51436#p51436
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by ScottyB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51440#p51440 no_email@example.com (ScottyB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51440#p51440 Tue, 08 May 2018 22:17:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51440#p51440 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51441#p51441 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51441#p51441 Tue, 08 May 2018 22:22:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51441#p51441 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51446#p51446
Problem is, it will take another 15 years to do a petition, an NRPM, public comment period, publication of comments, solicitation of responses to the comments, publication of those responses, revision of the NPRM, a comment period on the revised NPRM, replies to the comments on the amendment, etc. ad nauseum.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51446#p51446 Tue, 08 May 2018 23:23:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51446#p51446
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51447#p51447 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51447#p51447 Tue, 08 May 2018 23:25:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51447#p51447 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51448#p51448
TimTaylor wrote:Or send $500,000 to Essential Consultants LLC and it will be done tomorrow.


Are you taking up a collection?]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51448#p51448 Tue, 08 May 2018 23:29:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51448#p51448
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Engine/motor :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51449#p51449
drseti wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Or send $500,000 to Essential Consultants LLC and it will be done tomorrow.


Are you taking up a collection?

No, I'm not a crook or traitor. But, I will be switching from AT&T U-Verse to Charter Spectrum.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51449#p51449 Tue, 08 May 2018 23:40:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5080&p=51449#p51449
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Richard L. Collins Gone West :: Author cam737]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5081&p=51398#p51398 Sad to see great ones go. (I felt the same way when Len Morgan passed)
His last article:
https://airfactsjournal.com/2018/03/tea ... -students/
God Speed Richard Collins!

P.S. His last written words..."So, fly on, carefully."]]>
no_email@example.com (cam737) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5081&p=51398#p51398 Mon, 07 May 2018 01:50:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5081&p=51398#p51398
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Richard L. Collins Gone West :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5081&p=51484#p51484 no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5081&p=51484#p51484 Thu, 10 May 2018 02:02:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5081&p=51484#p51484 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Best Dynon Tech Support in southeastern US :: Author Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5088&p=51626#p51626 I highly recommend Jesse for Dynon Skyview installation and servicing.
He is very sharp on Skyview and does a superb job, installing/replacing Dynon Skyview components and specializes in troubleshooting.

Being way down here in Florida, Jesse was recommended to me by Dynon Customer Support. Jesse and his assistant, Philip, solved my Skyview anomaly in short order, which had puzzled myself, as well as the tech's up in Seattle. Thank goodness they referred me to him.

Additionally, Jesse's hourly rate for labor was extremely reasonable, as compared with other outfits in Florida. I have used Saint Aviation several times now and could not be more pleased.

Contact Information:

Jesse Saint
jesse@saintaviation.com
Phone: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694

10575 SW 147th Circle
Dunnellon, FL 34432]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5088&p=51626#p51626 Thu, 17 May 2018 17:38:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5088&p=51626#p51626
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Author c162pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51019#p51019
https://www.avweb.com/videos/How-Vashon-Wants-to-Revolutionize-Aviation-with-the-Ranger-LSA-230745-1.html]]>
no_email@example.com (c162pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51019#p51019 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 08:58:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51019#p51019
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51021#p51021
Interesting.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51021#p51021 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 10:22:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51021#p51021
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51024#p51024 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51024#p51024 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 12:17:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51024#p51024 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51025#p51025
Is it nice? Seems to be. Is it all that and a bag of chips? Nah.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51025#p51025 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:07:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51025#p51025
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51028#p51028
MrMorden wrote:.... There is literally nothing new about this design. It's sheet metal with a legacy style engine and no feature that other LSA have not had for ten years. ...


I guess that's the point.
Most John's responses in that interview can be summarized as " Why Continental ... Why metal ? .. I am sure Rotax is fine but I am an old geezer so that's why ..." ... which pretty much summarizes US general aviation pretty well - he knows his market :-)

Although he did specifically mention carbon fiber as being nightmare to work with ..]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51028#p51028 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:22:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51028#p51028
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51029#p51029
Warmi wrote:Although he did specifically mention carbon fiber as being nightmare to work with ..


I heard him say that about fiberglass, but not CF in particular.

Unless we get past the "geezer" mentality, geezers is all that we'll attract. If they could get the price of an LSA to $60k, there would be more young folks flying. Broke 20-somethings are just not as a rule going to even start a hobby that costs $10k to learn, $100 an hour to participate in, and $100k+ to have an own ownership stake in. Nobody would play golf either if it cost $100 an hour to play and $100k for a set of clubs...]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51029#p51029 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:48:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51029#p51029
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by c162pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51030#p51030 no_email@example.com (c162pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51030#p51030 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:59:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51030#p51030 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51031#p51031 no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51031#p51031 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 14:07:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51031#p51031 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51032#p51032
rsteele wrote:I think it's interesting that the designer worked for Vans. This looks for all the world like a high wing RV. From the castering nose gear to the internal bracing, it sort of screams RV to me. This is fine, RV's are great planes. Personally, though, I think the weight is a problem, especially for flight training which is one of the stated markets. I bet they are really hoping the LSA weight limit gets a bump.
]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51032#p51032 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 14:08:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51032#p51032
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51033#p51033
c162pilot wrote: Will be interesting to see which plane does better in the marketplace the Vashon or the Rans. I would think the Vashon may retain its price advantage as the manufacturing costs are most likely lower then the Rans.


The S-21 is not LSA, gross weight is 1800 and empty almost 1000lb.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51033#p51033 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 14:10:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51033#p51033
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51034#p51034
MrMorden wrote:I don't understand Bertorelli's statements that this is somehow "LSA 2.0". There is literally nothing new about this design. It's sheet metal with a legacy style engine and no feature that other LSA have not had for ten years. And it's got the same weight bloat that has been killing LSA utility for the past several years. Apparently it uses a lot of automated production processes, which is great. But it's still $100k+ to get one, so what has that really done for us?

Is it nice? Seems to be. Is it all that and a bag of chips? Nah.

Basically, a cheaper version of the SkyCatcher with less useful load.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51034#p51034 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 14:14:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51034#p51034
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51035#p51035
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:.... There is literally nothing new about this design. It's sheet metal with a legacy style engine and no feature that other LSA have not had for ten years. ...


I guess that's the point.
Most John's responses in that interview can be summarized as " Why Continental ... Why metal ? .. I am sure Rotax is fine but I am an old geezer so that's why ..." ... which pretty much summarizes US general aviation pretty well - he knows his market :-)

Although he did specifically mention carbon fiber as being nightmare to work with ..

Some of us prefer Continental and metal.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51035#p51035 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 14:15:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51035#p51035
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by c162pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51039#p51039
MrMorden wrote:
c162pilot wrote: Will be interesting to see which plane does better in the marketplace the Vashon or the Rans. I would think the Vashon may retain its price advantage as the manufacturing costs are most likely lower then the Rans.


The S-21 is not LSA, gross weight is 1800 and empty almost 1000lb.


Actually the S-21 is also being offered as an S-LSA with a Rotax 912ULS. Several of my flying buddies took a demo flight in one at Sun 'n Fun.
Price sheet below:
https://www.cognitoforms.com/RANS1/S21LSOUTBOUNDRTFQUOTE]]>
no_email@example.com (c162pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51039#p51039 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:08:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51039#p51039
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by HAPPYDAN]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51048#p51048 no_email@example.com (HAPPYDAN) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51048#p51048 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:43:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51048#p51048 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51049#p51049 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51049#p51049 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:53:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51049#p51049 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51051#p51051
Warmi wrote:Yes , Paul B. basically suggested that, since most LSA are already flying 100 lbs or so over gross , this most likely will be “the solution” for the issue of very low useful load on this new plane.

Interesting.


I really hope the bolded part is not the case.

if he did say that, I think it’s irresponsible.

As a single data point, mine’s not.

It’s not wise to pick and choose which operating limitations you think are worth adhering to.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51051#p51051 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 19:22:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51051#p51051
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51052#p51052
FastEddieB wrote:
Warmi wrote:Yes , Paul B. basically suggested that, since most LSA are already flying 100 lbs or so over gross , this most likely will be “the solution” for the issue of very low useful load on this new plane.

Interesting.


I really hope the bolded part is not the case.

if he did say that, I think it’s irresponsible.

As a single data point, mine’s not.

It’s not wise to pick and choose which operating limitations you think are worth adhering to.

Eddie, I am in 100 percent agreement. If you're going to ignore the weight limits, you might as well ignore all the regulations and fly at night and IFR.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51052#p51052 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 19:27:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51052#p51052
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51053#p51053
FastEddieB wrote:
Warmi wrote:Yes , Paul B. basically suggested that, since most LSA are already flying 100 lbs or so over gross , this most likely will be “the solution” for the issue of very low useful load on this new plane.

Interesting.


I really hope the bolded part is not the case.

if he did say that, I think it’s irresponsible.

As a single data point, mine’s not.

It’s not wise to pick and choose which operating limitations you think are worth adhering to.


Well listen for yourself.

It is no secret that I am new at this , having been only flying for a year and with only 100 hours to my name but ... this is not the first time I hear experienced pilots freely admitting that just about everyone is flying over gross - in fact I was told by a 20 k hours airline pilot , who at the time was acting in an official faa sponsored role, that flying over gross is not a problem as long as you know how it affects the handling of the plane and plan accordingly.
It seems that there are regulations and there are common practices and quite often these two are not necessarily in agreement.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51053#p51053 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 19:57:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51053#p51053
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51056#p51056
Warmi wrote:It seems that there are regulations and there are common practices and quite often these two are not necessarily in agreement.

I would be surprised if that's true. I hope it's a rare occurrence.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51056#p51056 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:21:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51056#p51056
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51057#p51057 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51057#p51057 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:23:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51057#p51057 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51058#p51058
Warmi wrote:It seems that there are regulations and there are common practices and quite often these two are not necessarily in agreement.


Or, it seems like there are regulations and there are relatively rare scofflaws that choose to disregard them.

One key to a long, safe, and violation-free flying career is to follow the rules. Most airline pilots have to, which is why their safety record is so exemplary.

Or don't. Thats why the FAA has an enforcement arm.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51058#p51058 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:31:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51058#p51058
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51064#p51064
TimTaylor wrote:
Warmi wrote:It seems that there are regulations and there are common practices and quite often these two are not necessarily in agreement.

I would be surprised if that's true. I hope it's a rare occurrence.


I don’t know but it seems like it is not.
Obiously, I am not going to name names but starting with the very ferry pilot who brought my plane , another very experienced DPE and quite a few various other pilots ( after they got to know me ) , i keep hearing that , yeah , we shouldn’t be doing it but everyone is doing it anyway ...

It is not just that ... in just one year, I have seen people replace avionics on certified planes on their own ... do all sorts of maintenance that they are not certified to do ... and it is not that I was seeking out some kind of aviation underground ... just hanging out at my and other airports.

I am not really surprised all that much either ... if you end up creating a bottomless pit of costly regulations that are almost impossible to follow for anyone without a corporate budget - you frankly leave them no choice .. it is either that or stop flying.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51064#p51064 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:48:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51064#p51064
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51066#p51066 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51066#p51066 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:02:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51066#p51066 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51067#p51067
Warmi wrote: you frankly leave them no choice .. it is either that or stop flying.


Another choice is to simply follow the rules, and accept the resulting limitations. In the case of flying within gross weight limits, that might mean considering your plane essentially a one place aircraft. You may not like that, but it's the reality of the situation.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51067#p51067 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:56:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51067#p51067
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51068#p51068 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51068#p51068 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:58:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51068#p51068 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51069#p51069
With my minimal experience , I am quite happy following every rule there is to make this new hobby safe for my wife and myself ..and , frankly, from a purely practical point of view, I don’t really need to - with the current setup we can comfortably fly for 3 hours ... with 2 hours being my endurance limit anyway.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51069#p51069 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:59:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51069#p51069
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51071#p51071
Warmi wrote:And btw. ... to the best of my knowledge , I have never flown in my plane over gross and I don’t plan to.

With my minimal experience , I am quite happy following every rule there is to make this new hobby safe for my wife and myself ..and , frankly, from a purely practical point of view, I don’t really need to - with the current setup we can comfortably fly for 3 hours ... with 2 hours being my endurance limit anyway.

Hopefully, more experience will not make you more prone to violate any "rules." You have a license to follow the rules, not violate them. From a practical point of view, if you ever need to violate the rules, make a different plan.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51071#p51071 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:05:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51071#p51071
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51090#p51090
HAPPYDAN wrote:Knowing as little as I do about aircraft in general, I thought the Skycatcher was a fine airplane with many solid attributes. The best LSA? Maybe not. If Cessna could have sold it under $100,000, I think it would have done well, possibly even outselling their venerable 172. Maybe that was the real problem. Who knows. Anyway, it's feasible that a smaller company that specializes in this type of proven design may do well with it.


I think that sub-$100k target is very hard to hit. When the Skycatcher was announced and they started taking orders, IIRC it was something like $114k. By the time deliveries started the price had gone up to $157k. If Cessna can't hit that price point (or even come close), it's going to be even harder for the smaller "mom & pop" airplane companies. Part of the problem is that most people don't want to buy a new airplane and "settle" for basics...they want autopilots, EFIS, fuel injected engines, and all the bells and whistles.

You might be able to build and sell a basic airplane with basic instrumentation for $80k. But not with all the above extra gear. Just a 912iS engine is almost $24k.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51090#p51090 Tue, 01 May 2018 07:51:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51090#p51090
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51099#p51099 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51099#p51099 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:26:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51099#p51099 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51108#p51108
Warmi wrote:But in this particular case .... they offer 2 Dynon HDX screens - a more basic model with something like a single D180 would knock off about 10K off of the base price ...

The company is owned by Dynon, and HDX is their new baby...that ain't gonna happen! :)]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51108#p51108 Tue, 01 May 2018 09:47:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51108#p51108
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51112#p51112
I think I might have been over gross a time or two when flying two people on long cross country flights, but not intentionally and not by much. I try to account for everything in the airplane, but there is always a possibility the "5lb of tools and spares" in my airplane is actually 7lb. I have told people on several occasions that they cannot take a bag weighing more than X pounds. Luckily my wife is a light packer. Also luckily, my airplane has a very generous useful load of 575lb. I imagine it's a lot harder or more frustrating to stay legal when your useful load is 480lb, you weigh 200lb, and you want to actually get some utility from your airplane.

Like most things where you shave the margins down, it's not a problem until it is.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51112#p51112 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:09:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51112#p51112
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51114#p51114
MrMorden wrote:You might be able to build and sell a basic airplane with basic instrumentation for $80k.


Of course you could. AeroTrek does that with the old Avid Flyer design.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51114#p51114 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:13:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51114#p51114
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51115#p51115
drseti wrote:
MrMorden wrote:You might be able to build and sell a basic airplane with basic instrumentation for $80k.


Of course you could. AeroTrek does that with the old Avid Flyer design.


Agreed, the bitter pill to swallow on the Aerotrek is buying an $80k Avid that you could buy used for $25k-30k all day long on Barnstormers. But of course those are E-AB airplanes and not everybody's cup of tea. BTW one of my good buddies flies an Avid, it's a pretty great airplane, even with a 65hp Rotax two-stroke engine. The killer setup would be a 80hp Rotax upgraded to a 115hp Zipper Big Bore. Airplanes with that setup make Supercubs look pretty weak. :)]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51115#p51115 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:20:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51115#p51115
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51117#p51117 Personally, I think it is one of the bettter options available right now - too bad the dealer wouldn’t even agree to make any customizations , for instance as small as replacing the default intercom with a stereo version ... maybe that’s how he keeps the price low.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51117#p51117 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:39:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51117#p51117 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51118#p51118
Warmi wrote: - too bad the dealer wouldn’t even agree to make any customizations


One of my Maintenance customers got an LoA to let me replace his original prop with a DUC Swirl, so the dealer isn't completely inflexible.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51118#p51118 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:46:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51118#p51118
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51119#p51119
Warmi wrote:My understanding is that Aerotrek , while originally based on Avid is a completely different plane , with different manufacturing process, materials etc ... you are definitely not just buying a rebranded Avid clone.


My Avid owner friend and I looked one over pretty closely at Oshkosh, we could not see any major differences. Some nicer fabric and upholstery and more refinement, but no obvious structural changes. That doesn't mean there aren't any of course, and I'm sure it takes advantage of all the refinements that have come though all the Avid/Kitfox models over the years.

To us it looked like a very professionally built Avid. And of course adding building and ASTM certification to the equation means it has to cost twice as much or more. No way around that. As for making changes, you could go to ELSA and have the advantages of a factory built airplane without the LoA hassles, if that accomplished your goals.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51119#p51119 Tue, 01 May 2018 11:10:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51119#p51119
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51120#p51120 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51120#p51120 Tue, 01 May 2018 11:18:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51120#p51120 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51142#p51142
MrMorden wrote:Regarding flying over gross: I think it *is* common. I know many, many pilots that talk about flying over gross with a shrug, or when I tell them I can't take that weight of people/gear/fuel will just say "just fly it over gross", and not in a joking way.

I think I might have been over gross a time or two when flying two people on long cross country flights, but not intentionally and not by much. I try to account for everything in the airplane, but there is always a possibility the "5lb of tools and spares" in my airplane is actually 7lb. I have told people on several occasions that they cannot take a bag weighing more than X pounds. Luckily my wife is a light packer. Also luckily, my airplane has a very generous useful load of 575lb. I imagine it's a lot harder or more frustrating to stay legal when your useful load is 480lb, you weigh 200lb, and you want to actually get some utility from your airplane.

Like most things where you shave the margins down, it's not a problem until it is.


TL recently issued a mandatory Notice that adds two safety cables to the chute installation. One of the reasons listed was "Early aircraft cable size was acceptable but below the current standard to protect the occupants during high speed deployments at high aircraft gross weights. " I asked SportAir about this last week and it was their belief that people were flying their aircraft over gross and they wanted to provide more safety margin. Interesting, that TL did not initially want to issue the notice since the current implementation was good and was within ASTM tolerances (I think ASTM allows 5% error). Sportair pressed the issue and got the notice.

Another tidbit I gleaned concerns LSA regs. Bydanjohnson reported that among other things, the FAA was considering increasing the MTOW and allowing 'single lever' controllable props. Sportair confirmed that these issues are in discussion and implied that the MTOW increase was agreed in principle. The actual MTOW is not agreed. The push is to go with EASA CS-VLA MTOW of 750KG. They figured its still 3-4 years off and had no idea if this could be applied to the existing fleet.

I wonder if Vashon is counting on the increase.]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51142#p51142 Tue, 01 May 2018 19:00:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51142#p51142
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51143#p51143
dstclair wrote:Bydanjohnson reported that among other things, the FAA was considering increasing the MTOW and allowing 'single lever' controllable props.


If that came to pass I would be shopping for one tomorrow for my Sky Arrow.

A fixed pitch or ground-adjustable only prop is equivalent to driving a car with only one gear. Usable, but far from ideal.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51143#p51143 Tue, 01 May 2018 19:30:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51143#p51143
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51144#p51144
FastEddieB wrote:
dstclair wrote:Bydanjohnson reported that among other things, the FAA was considering increasing the MTOW and allowing 'single lever' controllable props.


If that came to pass I would be shopping for one tomorrow for my Sky Arrow.

A fixed pitch or ground-adjustable only prop is equivalent to driving a car with only one gear. Usable, but far from ideal.

Remember, even as EXPERIMENTAL I cannot make modifications out of LSA limitations. Darn it!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51144#p51144 Tue, 01 May 2018 19:30:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51144#p51144
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51147#p51147 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51147#p51147 Tue, 01 May 2018 20:51:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51147#p51147 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51148#p51148
TimTaylor wrote:I would buy a C150 tomorrow,


Even if they increased max gross wt, the C150 would not be Sport Pilot eligible, unless they also significantly increased the max stall speed.

And before someone here argues that the 150 stalls at less than 45 kts, remember that what you see on your airspeed indicator is indicated. The present rule calls for under 45 kts calibrated.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51148#p51148 Tue, 01 May 2018 20:59:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51148#p51148
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51150#p51150
dstclair wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Regarding flying over gross: I think it *is* common. I know many, many pilots that talk about flying over gross with a shrug, or when I tell them I can't take that weight of people/gear/fuel will just say "just fly it over gross", and not in a joking way.

I think I might have been over gross a time or two when flying two people on long cross country flights, but not intentionally and not by much. I try to account for everything in the airplane, but there is always a possibility the "5lb of tools and spares" in my airplane is actually 7lb. I have told people on several occasions that they cannot take a bag weighing more than X pounds. Luckily my wife is a light packer. Also luckily, my airplane has a very generous useful load of 575lb. I imagine it's a lot harder or more frustrating to stay legal when your useful load is 480lb, you weigh 200lb, and you want to actually get some utility from your airplane.

Like most things where you shave the margins down, it's not a problem until it is.


TL recently issued a mandatory Notice that adds two safety cables to the chute installation. One of the reasons listed was "Early aircraft cable size was acceptable but below the current standard to protect the occupants during high speed deployments at high aircraft gross weights. " I asked SportAir about this last week and it was their belief that people were flying their aircraft over gross and they wanted to provide more safety margin. Interesting, that TL did not initially want to issue the notice since the current implementation was good and was within ASTM tolerances (I think ASTM allows 5% error). Sportair pressed the issue and got the notice.
....


Well, if that’s the real reason ( as opposed to simple, time based deterioration ) how come Sting 4s are not included in that notice ?]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51150#p51150 Tue, 01 May 2018 21:24:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51150#p51150
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51151#p51151 no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51151#p51151 Tue, 01 May 2018 21:59:13 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51151#p51151 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51152#p51152
drseti wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I would buy a C150 tomorrow,


Even if they increased max gross wt, the C150 would not be Sport Pilot eligible, unless they also significantly increased the max stall speed.

And before someone here argues that the 150 stalks at less than 45 kts, remember that what you see on your airspeed indicator is indicated. The present rule calls for under 45 kts calibrated.

Yea, I forgot about the stall speed. Maybe if they raise the max gross weight, they will raise the stall speed a little also. If I was doing it, I would make sure any revised LSA specs included the C150, C152, and Cherokee 140 (2 place).]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51152#p51152 Tue, 01 May 2018 23:48:49 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51152#p51152
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51153#p51153
As a techie person, I really like the way all electronics and electrics are tightly integrated by design. As a (hopefully) soon-to-be CFI-S, I like the all-metal construction, ruggedness, and the "old school" engine's simplicity. And I really like the way the seats fold flat to make sleeping room for 2.

And, of course, it's all made in the good ol' US of A!]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51153#p51153 Wed, 02 May 2018 00:32:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51153#p51153
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51154#p51154
Hambone wrote:
As a techie person, I really like the way all electronics and electrics are tightly integrated by design.


I guess it’s my Luddite tendencies coming to the fore, but all that “integration” makes me a little nervous.

I don’t like being totally dependent on screens to get all my info. I suppose having two screens provides redundancy, if they’re totally independent of each other or can be made so.

Still, I’ve had enough issues with computers and electronics to be wary of “putting all my eggs in one - or two - baskets”. I like the redundancy of backup gauges for critical info.

But I will admit I’m probably a dying breed. I’m sure steam gauges will soon be in a pile with old floppy disks, and a new generation will marvel at how we once thought we needed them!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51154#p51154 Wed, 02 May 2018 07:54:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51154#p51154
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51155#p51155
You can see why I’m wary of “integration”!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51155#p51155 Wed, 02 May 2018 07:52:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51155#p51155
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51157#p51157
FastEddieB wrote:
Hambone wrote:
As a techie person, I really like the way all electronics and electrics are tightly integrated by design.


I guess it’s my Luddite tendencies coming to the fore, but all that “integration” makes me a little nervous.

I don’t like being totally dependent on screens to get all my info. I suppose having two screens provides redundancy, if they’re totally independent of each other or can be made so.

Still, I’ve had enough issues with computers and electronics to be wary of “putting all my eggs in one - or two - baskets”. I like the redundancy of backup gauges for critical info.

But I will admit I’m probably a dying breed. I’m sure steam gauges will soon be in a pile with old floppy disks, and a new generation will marvel at how we once thought we needed them!


I think , if one is looking for redundancy, then having 2 Dynon ( or Garmin ) screens from the same manufacturer is not the best idea. The concept of having independent backup is still valid - just in this case instead of having an electric gauge , I would simply get something like Dynon D10 or AvMap Ultra as the backup device. The goal here is to have another piece of equipment that is running different software , written by a different team. If you have 2 Dynon screens and happen "to uncover" a bug in their software that renders them useless - both will die at the same time since both are running the same software.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51157#p51157 Wed, 02 May 2018 08:18:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51157#p51157
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51158#p51158
Probably unfounded, but being grounded in the boonies with a tech problem can be a real headache. Having a single gauge acting up, not so much.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51158#p51158 Wed, 02 May 2018 09:09:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51158#p51158
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51162#p51162

The only steam gauge I have is a backup airspeed indicator.

And yes Eddie, steam gauges will someday be in a pile next to the floppy disks, which are piled up next to the audio cassette. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51162#p51162 Wed, 02 May 2018 11:14:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51162#p51162
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51185#p51185 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51185#p51185 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:54:44 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51185#p51185 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51194#p51194
FastEddieB wrote: I suppose having two screens provides redundancy, if they’re totally independent of each other or can be made so.


My new SportStar has dual Skyviews, dual ADAHRS, dual engine sensors, and dual back-up batteries. So I'm pretty confident I have sufficient redundancy. I'll admit, though, that this is an expensive solution.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51194#p51194 Wed, 02 May 2018 19:24:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51194#p51194
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51196#p51196 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51196#p51196 Wed, 02 May 2018 19:32:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51196#p51196 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51198#p51198
TimTaylor wrote:Flying light sport in daytime VFR, if the engine will crank and run, most of us could take-off, fly home, and land without turning on any electronics or instrumentation.


Legally?

With nothing but a blank screen(s) in front of you, you would not have airspeed, altitude or magnetic direction. Nor any engine monitoring capability. I do believe such are required as minimum equipment in even Light Sport POH’s.

In an emergency, could one fly a plane so crippled to a successful landing? I think most experienced pilots could, as long as it remained VFR. But to take off in such a plane and “fly home” with zero instrumentation would show a lack of judgment. IMHO, of course.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51198#p51198 Wed, 02 May 2018 20:30:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51198#p51198
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51203#p51203 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51203#p51203 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:04:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51203#p51203 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51204#p51204
TimTaylor wrote:I didn't say anything about legality.


Not in so many words.

But my post concerned getting stuck in the boonies with bad glass.

Your response, “Flying light sport in daytime VFR, if the engine will crank and run, most of us could take-off, fly home, and land without turning on any electronics or instrumentation“ seemed to me to imply that one would not need to be stuck, since they could just fly home. I just wanted to point out the illegality of that option, not to mention it’s unwise to fly a plane with zero flight and engine monitoring instrumentation.

If I misread you, or you meant something else, my bad and you have my apologies.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51204#p51204 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:13:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51204#p51204
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51207#p51207 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51207#p51207 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:46:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51207#p51207 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51208#p51208
TimTaylor wrote:Flying light sport in daytime VFR, if the engine will crank and run, most of us could take-off, fly home, and land without turning on any electronics or instrumentation.

Please ignore this post if it causes you concern. It says "could" not "would." As Eddie pointed out, it would be illegal to fly without required instruments. Every licensed pilot knows that, unless he has forgotten since getting his certificate.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51208#p51208 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:45:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51208#p51208
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51209#p51209
TimTaylor wrote:I said "could," not "would." Jesus Christ, why is everything here such a pain in the ass?


It is just a forum and people discussing things. Is it really worth getting so worked up about it ?]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51209#p51209 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:43:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51209#p51209
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51211#p51211
Warmi wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I said "could," not "would." Jesus Christ, why is everything here such a pain in the ass?


It is just a forum and people discussing things. Is it really worth getting so worked up about it ?

I don't know, ask Eddie. I just made a simple observation. Flying an LSA with no instrumentation would be a simple thing for many/most of us.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51211#p51211 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:47:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51211#p51211
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51213#p51213
TimTaylor wrote:I don't know, ask Eddie. I just made a simple observation. Flying an LSA with no instrumentation would be a simple thing for many/most of us.


We need not ask Eddie to speculate. I imagine that as a CFI (like several of us here), he feels obligated to point out the legality (or illegality) of any potion posted. This is not necessarily directed toward the poster (who, such as in the present case, certainly already knows). But for others here who may not, Eddie probably considers these to be teachable moments (as, in fact, do I).]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51213#p51213 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:55:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51213#p51213
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51220#p51220
drseti wrote:My new SportStar has dual Skyviews, dual ADAHRS, dual engine sensors, and dual back-up batteries. So I'm pretty confident I have sufficient redundancy. I'll admit, though, that this is an expensive solution.

How many pitot tubes?]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51220#p51220 Thu, 03 May 2018 09:09:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51220#p51220
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51223#p51223 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51223#p51223 Thu, 03 May 2018 10:17:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51223#p51223 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51225#p51225 no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51225#p51225 Thu, 03 May 2018 10:48:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51225#p51225 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51226#p51226
drseti wrote:One, Bill, just like in any GA aircraft. That's why we all need to use Daniel Bernath's iPad "airspeed" app.

Just for the record, the more recent and current models of the CTLS were equipped with two, independent pitot tubes, which gave the airplane total instrument redundancy.
Point being, despite dual displays and AHARS in your Sportstar's, those are still dependent on a common pitot system, which offers limited redundacy.
That withstanding, I agree with you, that you have 'adequate' redundancy.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51226#p51226 Thu, 03 May 2018 10:59:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51226#p51226
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51253#p51253
MrMorden wrote:Because my pants falling down would be...you know...bad.


I really wouldn’t worry about such a little thing.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51253#p51253 Thu, 03 May 2018 17:02:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51253#p51253
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by proemer]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51255#p51255
Seems like a good idea... even in a LSA.

Pete]]>
no_email@example.com (proemer) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51255#p51255 Thu, 03 May 2018 17:28:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51255#p51255
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Izzy]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51285#p51285
A few comments or observations:
1.) I truly have respect and enjoy the association with other pilots that believe that limitations and regs are to be followed. I for one fly an SLSA with about 4hrs of fuel, 20 gallons, when I'm flying along. I will only fill up when I know that I will be flying in the following couple of days. When flying with others, I reduce my fuel load to stay within the envelope. Reducing the fuel load is not a big deal to me as my bladder usually limits me to 2 1/2 - 3 hr legs as I drink lots of fluids while flying, maintaining optimum hydration. I completely agree with a few previous posters...IT IS INCREDIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE that PB clearly states that pilots are flying their LSA at over their MTOW ~ Safety first as I look forward to flying another day!

2.) I constantly read critical statements on the cost of aviation and more specifically the aircraft offerings in the LSA category. I find it quite entertaining when I've flown with left seat 777 pilots as they are amazed at the level of technology the SLSA I'm flying is equipped with. Two points that I believe we need to consider when talking of pricing; first of all is the price of a fully loaded SLSA, meaning full glass panel, autopilot, and yes BRS (parachute)...we need to accept the reality of the cost of these features alone is somewhere around $50k-$60k. Secondly, to respond to a common expression that I've read numerous times "well eliminate all that fancy modern glass stuff and give me a six pack'! Sadly that is not the reality as the manufacturers are truly not receiving orders for non glass equipped aircraft. I personally am spoiled with the gadgetry, mind you I come from the gliding world circa 1975 and my first solo in a single engine was in a Cessna 152 back in 1980. I love the information and features available to me as a pilot (traffic, weather, nearest airport, autopilot) in all phases of flight. And yes, over time I have learned to enjoy the benefit if engaging the autopilot much more than I initially thought I would. But, mostly on long legs or cross country flights.

3.) The last point which cover a bit of the preceding points; Bristell is enjoying sales of SLSA planes in the +$200k range with IFR equipment same as SportCruiser at $169k...there are people (pilots) out there that find the $200k to be a bargain when comparing to a comparably equipped GA offering not only in cost of acquisition but, in overall cost of operation and maintenance.

Cheers to all. Enjoy flying whatever it is that you fly as we are all blessed to be flying at all.

Izzy]]>
no_email@example.com (Izzy) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51285#p51285 Fri, 04 May 2018 11:03:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51285#p51285
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51286#p51286 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51286#p51286 Fri, 04 May 2018 11:16:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51286#p51286 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51290#p51290
FastEddieB wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Because my pants falling down would be...you know...bad.


I really wouldn’t worry about such a little thing.


Image]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51290#p51290 Fri, 04 May 2018 11:53:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51290#p51290
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51313#p51313
Izzy wrote:Cheers to all. Enjoy flying whatever it is that you fly as we are all blessed to be flying at all.
Izzy

Welcome to this forum Izzy.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51313#p51313 Fri, 04 May 2018 18:37:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51313#p51313
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51314#p51314
FastEddieB wrote:
MrMorden wrote:Because my pants falling down would be...you know...bad.

I really wouldn’t worry about such a little thing.

Hilarious! :D]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51314#p51314 Fri, 04 May 2018 18:39:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51314#p51314
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51318#p51318 no_email@example.com (foresterpoole) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51318#p51318 Fri, 04 May 2018 19:58:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51318#p51318 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51322#p51322
Referencing another thread on this very topic, while some LSA'a can safely do that unless you have hard evidence you'll never know which LSA'a can really carry what weight safely. Which leads to 1) This isn't Vegas, I don't want to guess on whether it will fly or not, 2) by the way if you get caught I would imagine bad things happen -insurance voided, etc. 3) Did he just open himself up to liability? Someone buys a ranger, overloads it, crashes, sues?]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51322#p51322 Sat, 05 May 2018 07:43:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51322#p51322
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51323#p51323 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51323#p51323 Sat, 05 May 2018 08:00:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51323#p51323 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51324#p51324
WDD wrote:Yes, I was also a bit surprised in the video when he blatantly said the Ranger has lower usable weight than others, but most LSA's are flown overweight anyway.

Referencing another thread on this very topic, while some LSA'a can safely do that unless you have hard evidence you'll never know which LSA'a can really carry what weight safely. Which leads to 1) This isn't Vegas, I don't want to guess on whether it will fly or not, 2) by the way if you get caught I would imagine bad things happen -insurance voided, etc. 3) Did he just open himself up to liability? Someone buys a ranger, overloads it, crashes, sues?


I will also admit I was caught off guard with his statement. Why on earth would he say that in a video review of an aircraft? Why on earth would he say that period? I know many LSA owners and pilots and none to my knowledge overload their aircraft. And for good reason, as WDD pointed out this isn’t Vegas, why gamble with your life or the life of others.

If you want to gamble with your life please go do it away from my airport. :mrgreen:

There are rules in place and for good reason, for your safety and the safety of others.

It was a pretty stupid comment in my opinion and I hope it doesn’t come back to haunt him.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51324#p51324 Sat, 05 May 2018 08:11:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51324#p51324
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51325#p51325
I always liked his videos , he does no BS type of reporting ( and manages to be entertaining while doing so https://youtu.be/f6q2VKsvQEQ ) but this may have been a bit overboard...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51325#p51325 Sat, 05 May 2018 08:30:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51325#p51325
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RTK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51331#p51331
I’ve heard some pilots suggest it could be done, and even an owner (non pilot) that stated a particular LSA flew well 200+ pounds over gross. But this was out of pure conversation (in other words, all taken with a grain of salt), and never from a position of authority (explicit or implied). All I know is that someone becomes a test pilot if they’re over gross or out of CG. Sorry - not the job I signed up for.

Now the Vashon Ranger... that’s an aircraft that really could have some utility. Pity the useful load is limited and alternate engine choices (i.e. 80 pound lighter Rotax 912ULS) couldn’t be an option. That notwithstanding, many pilots are very fit individuals, so perhaps a pilot and passenger and reasonable fuel is still achievable in the Ranger. As robust as the Ranger looks, however, flight school duty could be challenging as students come in all shapes and sizes (weight), which could hinder the Ranger’s use in a flight school. $99,500 for a new LSA with glass panel is still a good deal IMO.]]>
no_email@example.com (RTK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51331#p51331 Sat, 05 May 2018 10:57:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51331#p51331
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51333#p51333 no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51333#p51333 Sat, 05 May 2018 13:10:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51333#p51333 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by c162pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51334#p51334 no_email@example.com (c162pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51334#p51334 Sat, 05 May 2018 15:18:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51334#p51334 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by chicagorandy]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51335#p51335
But it darn sure ain't as easy as it would have been 20 years ago - lol - the mind is willing but the arthritic body is mighty tough to beat.

Off topic slightly, but I wonder out loud if current LSA manufacturers would have to make any manufacturing/design/materials changes were the FAA to wave its magic wand on Monday and say that Light Sport now meant 1500# gross?]]>
no_email@example.com (chicagorandy) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51335#p51335 Sat, 05 May 2018 16:00:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51335#p51335
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51337#p51337
c162pilot wrote:According to Amy at Vashon the Ranger will be certified to 1,440 lbs or 650 KG as there will be an option for floats.


If true, that will take it out of LSA compliance, as the LSA seaplane is limited to 1430#, not 1440.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51337#p51337 Sat, 05 May 2018 17:08:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51337#p51337
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51338#p51338
chicagorandy wrote:Off topic slightly, but I wonder out loud if current LSA manufacturers would have to make any manufacturing/design/materials changes were the FAA to wave its magic wand on Monday and say that Light Sport now meant 1500# gross?


If the FAA were indeed to increase the LSA weight limit as you suggest, but keep all the other limitations the same, the manufacturers would have to do some major re-design and re-engineering. This is because the max stall speed limit would still be 45 kcas. Remember, stall speed goes up with weight. Adding another 180# would almost certainly take the calibrated stall speed up above 45. So, we're probably talking a whole new wing design here.

As for the floatplane limit of 1430, the design of the floats (at least, the ones on the J-3 Cub I flew at Jack Brown's Seaplane Base) actually adds some lift. So, I imagine, that compensates for (and justifies) the additional max gross weight.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51338#p51338 Sat, 05 May 2018 17:13:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51338#p51338
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by c162pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51339#p51339 no_email@example.com (c162pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51339#p51339 Sat, 05 May 2018 17:27:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51339#p51339 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51340#p51340 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51340#p51340 Sat, 05 May 2018 17:35:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51340#p51340 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51343#p51343
drseti wrote:
chicagorandy wrote:Off topic slightly, but I wonder out loud if current LSA manufacturers would have to make any manufacturing/design/materials changes were the FAA to wave its magic wand on Monday and say that Light Sport now meant 1500# gross?


If the FAA were indeed to increase the LSA weight limit as you suggest, but keep all the other limitations the same, the manufacturers would have to do some major re-design and re-engineering. This is because the max stall speed limit would still be 45 kcas. Remember, stall speed goes up with weight. Adding another 180# would almost certainly take the calibrated stall speed up above 45. So, we're probably talking a whole new wing design here.

As for the floatplane limit of 1430, the design of the floats (at least, the ones on the J-3 Cub I flew at Jack Brown's Seaplane Base) actually adds some lift. So, I imagine, that compensates for (and justifies) the additional max gross weight.

Slight disagreement with Paul. Some manufacturers already produce their planes to a 650kg and 750kg MTOW standard with stall speeds that are under 45 KCAS at 600kg. It is possible that the increase in stall due to mass increase would still keep the plane within the current standard. For instance, my Sting has a clean stall of 43 KCAS and assume the magic wand of ASTM increases the MTOW to 650 kg. With no wing change, stall speed will increase with the square root of the new MTOW/old MTOW. This results in a new stall of 44.75 KCAS.]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51343#p51343 Sat, 05 May 2018 19:21:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51343#p51343
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51344#p51344
I wasn't saying no LSAs would qualify, but I'm pretty sure most won't. Those designed from the ground up around the US rule almost invariably stall at exactly 45 KCAS. Why would the engineers design to a standard higher than that required of them? ;)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51344#p51344 Sat, 05 May 2018 19:27:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51344#p51344
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51345#p51345
dstclair wrote: This results in a new stall of 44.75 KCAS.


I beg to differ with you, Dave. I just ran the numbers, and I got 44.76! :P]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51345#p51345 Sat, 05 May 2018 19:31:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51345#p51345
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51346#p51346
drseti wrote:
dstclair wrote: This results in a new stall of 44.75 KCAS.


I beg to differ with you, Dave. I just ran the numbers, and I got 44.76! :P

I knew I shouldn't have done the calc in my head.... dang it!]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51346#p51346 Sat, 05 May 2018 19:34:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51346#p51346
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51355#p51355
TimTaylor wrote:Why do we continue to have post about exceeding 1320 pounds or 1430 pounds for a float plane? This is Sport Pilot Talk. Flying as Sport Pilots or with Sport PIlot priviledges, we are limited to LSA. LSA is limited to 1320 pounds or 1430 pounds if a float plane. Why don't we just nix the talk about flying over the weight limits? We don't have a lot of discussion about flying at night or IFR or with 3 people squeezed in, or intentionally violating other FAR's.


I couldn't agree more Tim. Thanks for pointing this out.

Before I bought my plane I was building an experimental helicopter (Rotorway) and this was always the topic of discussion on their forum as well, useful load and how it's wasn't enough. I'm seeing it more and more with LSA now also.

Many people are focused on useful load or max gross and how can I increase it, cheat it or get around it rather than focus on what's on the end of their fork. Peoples waistlines are getting larger and larger in this country but nobody wants to talk about that. I am fortunate and have always been about the same weight, around 170 pounds my entire adult life. I am 6'-1" tall also.

My SportCruiser, with every bells and whistle less a ballistic chute, has a useful load of 520 pounds and that allows me, someone also my size and full fuel (30 gallons) and I'll still be under gross weight. And I never top off the tanks.

Everyone also wants more and more gadgets, bells and whistles in their LSA but they also forget that those gadgets add to the BEW and rob you of useful load. When you are looking to buy a LSA you first need to determine your goals of what you intend to use it for and make sure the plane you choose will fit those needs when it comes to its useful load.

Instead of focusing on MTOW, useful load or the BEW of an aircraft why not focus on something you can change, the size of your waistline. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51355#p51355 Sun, 06 May 2018 08:49:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51355#p51355
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51358#p51358
ShawnM wrote:
Everyone also wants more and more gadgets, bells and whistles in their LSA...


I will stipulate that I’m apparently an outlier, but...

...count me among those who, in general, do not want more “gadgets, bells and whistles“ in my Light Sport.

For instance, if someone offered me an autopilot for free that weighed nothing, I would politely decline. Having owned planes with much more complexity, I savor the relative simplicity of Light Sport. More screens and more systems just mean more stuff to maintain and troubleshoot, and that, in my opinion, can actually detract from the pure joy of flying.

But That’s Just Me!(tm)]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51358#p51358 Sun, 06 May 2018 09:18:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51358#p51358
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51361#p51361
FastEddieB wrote:I will stipulate that I’m apparently an outlier, but...

...count me among those who, in general, do not want more “gadgets, bells and whistles“ in my Light Sport.

For instance, if someone offered me an autopilot for free that weighed nothing, I would politely decline. Having owned planes with much more complexity, I savor the relative simplicity of Light Sport. More screens and more systems just mean more stuff to maintain and troubleshoot, and that, in my opinion, can actually detract from the pure joy of flying.

But That’s Just Me!(tm)


I didn't count you Eddie as I know you are one of the exceptions to the rule. :mrgreen: By me saying everyone it was just a generalization, there are always exceptions to the rule. Case in point.....you.

I will admit at first, early in my training all those gadgets in my plane did distract me from flying the plane and enjoying what I was actually doing. My instructor even went as far as turning my Dynon screens off in flight one day and told me to LOOK OUT THE WINDOW. :mrgreen:

I think it's nice to have the gadgets but of course dont let them distract you from the bigger picture. To me, my panel is far easier to navigate than one filled with round gauges spread out everywhere on the panel. I have one place to look in front of me and then back to the joy of flying. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51361#p51361 Sun, 06 May 2018 10:28:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51361#p51361
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51362#p51362
ShawnM wrote:
Instead of focusing on MTOW, useful load or the BEW of an aircraft why not focus on something you can change, the size of your waistline. :mrgreen:


What is easier - loosing 30 pounds when you're over 50 or convincing the FAA to change a rule?

One of those irresistible forces meeting an immovable object puzzle....

Maybe we should have a dedicated part of the forum on weight loss? :D

(Tim T shared on another post that he successfully lost that much so he could fly the SkyCatcher).]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51362#p51362 Sun, 06 May 2018 10:31:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51362#p51362
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51364#p51364
FastEddieB wrote:
ShawnM wrote:
Everyone also wants more and more gadgets, bells and whistles in their LSA...


I will stipulate that I’m apparently an outlier, but...

...count me among those who, in general, do not want more “gadgets, bells and whistles“ in my Light Sport.

For instance, if someone offered me an autopilot for free that weighed nothing, I would politely decline. Having owned planes with much more complexity, I savor the relative simplicity of Light Sport. More screens and more systems just mean more stuff to maintain and troubleshoot, and that, in my opinion, can actually detract from the pure joy of flying.

But That’s Just Me!(tm)

I'm with FastEddieB on this. My ideal plane would be a SkyCatcher with it's relatively sparse interior and a Garmin G300, left side only, no autopilot, one comm radio, and a transponder. I have my iPad Mini 4 with iFly GPS for anything else I might want or need.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51364#p51364 Sun, 06 May 2018 12:13:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51364#p51364
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RTK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51367#p51367
WDD wrote:What is easier - loosing 30 pounds when you're over 50 or convincing the FAA to change a rule?


Actually, I’ll ask: What’s harder, losing weight or receiving the barrage of mail from the AARP? :P

Tough to be constantly reminded I’m over 50. And the weight... well, once I get a less stressful job, I’ll work on the weight. But it works in my case since neither my wife or son are interested in flying with me :( , so I’m solo most of the time! :D

I do like having a glass panel so that everything is in front of me. Do i need two glass panels? No, not really (but my plane came with it) but backup instrumentation is nice. But apps today like ForeFlight really do a fine job as backup.

Getting back to the Vashon Ranger 7... if I were to buy one, I’d select the base “Yellowstone” model with the one glass panel. The passenger can mount the iPad to their panel for movies in flight. :P]]>
no_email@example.com (RTK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51367#p51367 Sun, 06 May 2018 12:25:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51367#p51367
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51371#p51371
RTK wrote:
WDD wrote:What is easier - loosing 30 pounds when you're over 50 or convincing the FAA to change a rule?


Actually, I’ll ask: What’s harder, losing weight or receiving the barrage of mail from the AARP? :P

Tough to be constantly reminded I’m over 50. And the weight... well, once I get a less stressful job, I’ll work on the weight. But it works in my case since neither my wife or son are interested in flying with me :( , so I’m solo most of the time! :D

I do like having a glass panel so that everything is in front of me. Do i need two glass panels? No, not really (but my plane came with it) but backup instrumentation is nice. But apps today like ForeFlight really do a fine job as backup.

Getting back to the Vashon Ranger 7... if I were to buy one, I’d select the base “Yellowstone” model with the one glass panel. The passenger can mount the iPad to their panel for movies in flight. :P


Everything is relative ... when I was 14 , I thought guys in their mid twenties were “old” ... I bet to someone in their 70s being in your 50s is not really “tough”. Then again , guys in their 80s or 90s probably look down at folks in their 60s/70s as being lucky youngsters hehe...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51371#p51371 Sun, 06 May 2018 13:58:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51371#p51371
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by rcpilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51379#p51379
WDD wrote:
ShawnM wrote:
Instead of focusing on MTOW, useful load or the BEW of an aircraft why not focus on something you can change, the size of your waistline. :mrgreen:


What is easier - loosing 30 pounds when you're over 50 or convincing the FAA to change a rule?

One of those irresistible forces meeting an immovable object puzzle....

Maybe we should have a dedicated part of the forum on weight loss? :D

(Tim T shared on another post that he successfully lost that much so he could fly the SkyCatcher).


I found way to lose almost 50 lbs in 3 weeks but I don't recommend it. It came in handy though when I had to do my "instrument" training in the Skycatcher.]]>
no_email@example.com (rcpilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51379#p51379 Sun, 06 May 2018 15:25:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51379#p51379
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by c162pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51393#p51393
https://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/Is-the-Vashon-Ranger-The-New-150-230783-1.html]]>
no_email@example.com (c162pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51393#p51393 Sun, 06 May 2018 18:14:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51393#p51393
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51395#p51395

He also states that "much of LSA already does this" and this is just not reality. I'm sorry but he's very ignorant for stating this in a review of an aircraft on behalf of he aircraft manufacturer and his company, AVweb.

I love Paul's reviews but this maybe be stepping over the line a bit.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51395#p51395 Sun, 06 May 2018 19:18:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51395#p51395
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51438#p51438 no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51438#p51438 Tue, 08 May 2018 19:44:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51438#p51438 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51439#p51439
I plan on contacting Paul Bertorelli directly, if possible.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51439#p51439 Tue, 08 May 2018 20:46:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51439#p51439
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51442#p51442 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51442#p51442 Tue, 08 May 2018 22:56:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51442#p51442 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51443#p51443
https://www.avweb.com/db/fdc.collector?client_id=avweb&form_id=maileditform&link_id=69

I also posted a comment on the video, thanks for the reminder on this Eddie.

I dont think this is "an open secret" at all as I dont know anyone flying over gross. If they are they certainly are not "open" about it. I also dont know of anyone who needs to or wants to become a test pilot just for the thrill of it. :mrgreen:

I do understand that Vashon is going to produce a float version of this plane and that increases the goss to 1430. That's all fine and dandy but this is not the float version he is reviewing. Floats add lift and that in turn allows more weight. But until they produce a float version the max gross is still 1320. For someone like him to suggest it's ok to violate the FAR's is just ludicrous.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51443#p51443 Tue, 08 May 2018 23:12:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51443#p51443
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51444#p51444
Thanks, gang, for giving me a pleasant flashback to something I hadn't thought about for 60 years or more. :)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51444#p51444 Tue, 08 May 2018 23:15:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51444#p51444
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51445#p51445 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51445#p51445 Tue, 08 May 2018 23:20:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51445#p51445 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51450#p51450 https://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/Mor ... 797-1.html
I believe the reason the LSA MTOW comes up for discussion from time-to-time is that it is viewed as regulatory vs. designed (for Part 23 and the prior regs). If I recall correctly, my Cherokee 180 had an MTOW of 2550 lbs and exceeding this really put you in uncharted territory. Some LSA manufacturers have models that have been designed for higher weights such as Cubs, some Jabirus, some Tecnams, Stings and I'm sure there are others. There is a natural desire to fly these same models in the US at a the higher MTOW to increase the utility of the plane. I'm not so sure that if one does that this puts you in the same risk group as flying my Cherokee over gross. Of course, this is against the regs but I'm not sure this stops some pilots. We also know that highway speed limits aren't followed by many drivers. It seems Paul B. point is that some pilots do fly over gross and he neither condones or condemns them.]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51450#p51450 Wed, 09 May 2018 09:53:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51450#p51450
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51451#p51451
dstclair wrote: It seems Paul B. point is that some pilots do fly over gross and he neither condones or condemns them.


I can't speak for Paul B., Dave, but you and I, as CFIs, have a legal and moral obligation to condemn such action.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51451#p51451 Wed, 09 May 2018 10:19:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51451#p51451
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51452#p51452
At least that was my impression.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51452#p51452 Wed, 09 May 2018 10:53:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51452#p51452
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51453#p51453 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51453#p51453 Wed, 09 May 2018 12:10:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51453#p51453 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51454#p51454
Paul B always seemed very unabashedly practical in his approach covering aviation related topics and this particular issue is no exception.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51454#p51454 Wed, 09 May 2018 12:11:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51454#p51454
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51455#p51455
If you want to fly your LSA as certified in some other country, move to that country.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51455#p51455 Wed, 09 May 2018 12:15:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51455#p51455
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51456#p51456
TimTaylor wrote:OK, then. I guess the rest of us who are Private, Commercial, or ATP with an instrument rating can fly at night and IFR if the plane is so equipped.


Yep, and no need to ignore the regulations. If it is allowed by the operating limitations and has the equipment all of what you mentioned is perfectly legal.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51456#p51456 Wed, 09 May 2018 13:10:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51456#p51456
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51457#p51457
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:OK, then. I guess the rest of us who are Private, Commercial, or ATP with an instrument rating can fly at night and IFR if the plane is so equipped.


Yep, and no need to ignore the regulations. If it is allowed by the operating limitations and has the equipment all of what you mentioned is perfectly legal.

Not if you're flying with Sport Pilot privileges and no FAA medical or no Basic Med. Otherwise, why fool around with LSA? I definitely would not be flying LSA if I qualified for Basic Med. But thanks for chiming is, as usual. :roll:]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51457#p51457 Wed, 09 May 2018 13:31:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51457#p51457
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51458#p51458
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:OK, then. I guess the rest of us who are Private, Commercial, or ATP with an instrument rating can fly at night and IFR if the plane is so equipped.


Yep, and no need to ignore the regulations. If it is allowed by the operating limitations and has the equipment all of what you mentioned is perfectly legal.


Not without a medical, which I think was Tim Taylor’s point*.

Alleviated by BasicMed, which Tim just barely missed the “deadline” for.

And to reiterate, safe or not, operating over LSA weight limits puts one’s license at risk. Any accident or incident under those conditions, even it weight was not a causal factor, may result in license suspension or worse. How important that is obviously varies pilot to pilot. It is important to me.

*I see from Tim’s response up I was right.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51458#p51458 Wed, 09 May 2018 13:26:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51458#p51458
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51459#p51459
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:OK, then. I guess the rest of us who are Private, Commercial, or ATP with an instrument rating can fly at night and IFR if the plane is so equipped.


Yep, and no need to ignore the regulations. If it is allowed by the operating limitations and has the equipment all of what you mentioned is perfectly legal.

Not if you're flying with Sport Pilot privileges and no FAA medical or no Basic Med. Otherwise, why fool around with LSA? I definitely would not be flying LSA if I qualified for Basic Med. But thanks for chiming is, as usual. :roll:


Cause some people like to fly for fun and thus like LSA and fly them regardless of medical or any other considerations.
I for one, wouldn't even bother getting into this, if all I had available to me was 40 year olds Mooney's, Cessnas and other ancient technology - if there ever comes a day when I need a fast cross country plane, I will possibly look into Cirrus or Diamond , if I can even afford it ...RV otherwise.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51459#p51459 Wed, 09 May 2018 13:47:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51459#p51459
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51460#p51460
If you're a new Sport Pilot, without an instrument rating, and all you've ever flown is an LSA, you're not in a position to criticize a well maintained, fully updated, highly capable standard category airplane.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51460#p51460 Wed, 09 May 2018 13:52:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51460#p51460
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51461#p51461
It doesn’t matter really - it was simply a response to you implying that flying LSA is done purely out of necessity.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51461#p51461 Wed, 09 May 2018 14:13:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51461#p51461
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51462#p51462
Warmi wrote:I have flown a few times but that’s not the point - I personally don’t like old planes , just like some people don’t like old cars or Harley bikes or whatever ... I program computers for living and frankly don’t care about IFR or commercial flying or any other advanced ratings - I fly for fun I don’t plan to bother with it all.

It doesn’t matter really - it was simply a response to you implying that flying LSA is done purely out of necessity.

My question was directed at Private, Commercial, and ATP pilots with an instrument rating. It was a rhetorical question. Some people fly LSA because they want to, others because they have to unless they want to fly ultra-lights or gliders. I enjoy flying LSA, but I have no other viable choice.

And the point is, FOLLOW ALL REGULATIONS. Don't pick and choose which one's you want to follow and which one's you want to ignore.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51462#p51462 Wed, 09 May 2018 14:47:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51462#p51462
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51463#p51463

Your friends 1968 Mooney is as old as I am and I for one would much rather fly a new, state of the art aircraft with all the bells and whistles. Not a 50 year old plane covered in lipstick. I do fly LSA for the sheer enjoyment of it and not out of necessity. I have zero medical issues and have no need for a PPL. My LSA aircraft and my SPL give me more fun and enjoyment than I could ever ask for.

If anyone is "stuck" flying LSA they should be thankful there's still a way to fly these amazing and very cool aircraft. Just sayin']]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51463#p51463 Wed, 09 May 2018 15:00:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51463#p51463
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51464#p51464 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51464#p51464 Wed, 09 May 2018 15:06:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51464#p51464 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51465#p51465



https://youtu.be/oOrpEv0ZRtg]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51465#p51465 Wed, 09 May 2018 15:22:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51465#p51465
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51466#p51466 N676N.jpg

Attachments



N676N.jpg (61.99 KiB)


]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51466#p51466 Wed, 09 May 2018 15:32:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51466#p51466
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51467#p51467
TimTaylor wrote:Ignorance is bliss. LSA is a great option, but why the need to diss other aircraft? Another example of a narrow minded, prejudiced person.


How is that narrow minded or prejudiced ? ... I only wrote that I personally would never buy a plane like that - that's all ...
If you fancy older planes or Chicago style deep dish pizza or whatever ....who am I to argue ...and I won't.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51467#p51467 Wed, 09 May 2018 15:58:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51467#p51467
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51468#p51468 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51468#p51468 Wed, 09 May 2018 16:03:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51468#p51468 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51469#p51469
FastEddieB wrote:Only rarely get to fly planes older than me (and dirt!), but a good excuse to post this flight from a few years ago:




https://youtu.be/oOrpEv0ZRtg



Oh ... Ercoupe is special .. that doesn't count as an old plane ...
I guess I just don't like only certain older planes :-)]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51469#p51469 Wed, 09 May 2018 16:00:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51469#p51469
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51470#p51470
TimTaylor wrote:Ignorance is bliss. LSA is a great option, but why the need to diss other aircraft? Another example of a narrow minded, prejudiced person.


Really, now we've reverted to name calling because I have a different opinion than you do? If it makes you feel better.......]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51470#p51470 Wed, 09 May 2018 16:24:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51470#p51470
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by hirschr]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51471#p51471 no_email@example.com (hirschr) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51471#p51471 Wed, 09 May 2018 16:29:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51471#p51471 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51472#p51472
hirschr wrote:That was a lot of fun FastEddie, we will have to get together again one of these days. FGU is closed for paving probably mid-June before the Ercoupe will see the light of day...


If you need a flying fix, let me know! No charge to just go up and bore some holes in the sky.

We might even figure out a way to stay under gross!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51472#p51472 Wed, 09 May 2018 16:41:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51472#p51472
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51473#p51473
ShawnM wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Ignorance is bliss. LSA is a great option, but why the need to diss other aircraft? Another example of a narrow minded, prejudiced person.


Really, now we've reverted to name calling because I have a different opinion than you do? If it makes you feel better.......

For dissing my friend's exceptional Mooney. I think the shoe fits. Nobody made negative comments about your little light sport airplane.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51473#p51473 Wed, 09 May 2018 16:54:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51473#p51473
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51474#p51474
TimTaylor wrote:
ShawnM wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Ignorance is bliss. LSA is a great option, but why the need to diss other aircraft? Another example of a narrow minded, prejudiced person.


Really, now we've reverted to name calling because I have a different opinion than you do? If it makes you feel better.......

For dissing my friend's exceptional Mooney. I think the shoe fits. Nobody made negative comments about your little light sport airplane.


I wouldn't start name calling if someone didn't like my SportCruiser, many dont and I'm ok with that. I love it. I'd simply respect their opinion and move on. We are all allowed to have a opinion, right?

If pointing out a FACT that I was born in 1968 as well as that aircraft was made in 1968 is what you consider a dis then I suggest you look up the definition of dis. I in no way dissed the aircraft, merely pointing out a fact.

But since you want to revert to name calling because I have a different opinion that some old timer who seems bitter because he can't pass a medical and he's stuck flying LSA then maybe he needs to hang up his wings. He should count himself lucky he's still able to fly these wonderful LSA aircraft that many of us here on the LIGHT SPORT forum know and love.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51474#p51474 Wed, 09 May 2018 18:16:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51474#p51474
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51475#p51475
Over the years, I've owned three standard certificated aircraft, each unique in it's own way. I almost bought a SkyCatcher last year, but got cold feet at the last minute and cancelled the deal. I plan to continue to rent for now until I either stop flying or purchase something. I'm on the fence.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51475#p51475 Wed, 09 May 2018 18:31:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51475#p51475
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51476#p51476
Remember that there are no bad aircraft - only some that may or may not meet your personal mission or preferences.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51476#p51476 Wed, 09 May 2018 18:58:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51476#p51476
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51477#p51477
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:OK, then. I guess the rest of us who are Private, Commercial, or ATP with an instrument rating can fly at night and IFR if the plane is so equipped.


Yep, and no need to ignore the regulations. If it is allowed by the operating limitations and has the equipment all of what you mentioned is perfectly legal.

Not if you're flying with Sport Pilot privileges and no FAA medical or no Basic Med. Otherwise, why fool around with LSA? I definitely would not be flying LSA if I qualified for Basic Med. But thanks for chiming is, as usual. :roll:


Because many of the LSA can stand in their own right simply as a good airplane. Not everyone flying a LSA is flying under sport pilot privileges.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51477#p51477 Wed, 09 May 2018 22:49:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51477#p51477
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51478#p51478
Again, in case you still don't get it, some of us are trying to encourage others to follow all the regulations and not ignore the 1320 pound LSA weight limit.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51478#p51478 Wed, 09 May 2018 23:10:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51478#p51478
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51479#p51479 What part of "enough already" did you not understand?
;)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51479#p51479 Wed, 09 May 2018 23:21:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51479#p51479
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51481#p51481 Even for your typical pattern work is not good enough if both , your CFI and the student, are at around 200 lbs.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51481#p51481 Wed, 09 May 2018 23:50:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51481#p51481 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51482#p51482
Warmi wrote:It is too heavy for sure.
Even for your typical pattern work is not good enough if both , your CFI and the student, are at around 200 lbs.

Concur . . . but it's got a great panel though. 8)]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51482#p51482 Wed, 09 May 2018 23:56:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51482#p51482
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51485#p51485
Wm.Ince wrote:The Vashon Ranger is just too heavy.


I would qualify that.

The Vashon Ranger is heavier than many would have hoped for a clean sheet design, and too heavy for some applications and some missions. But just fine for others.

Not all pilots weigh 200 lbs, nor need to carry a 200 lb passenger. But if they do, this is certainly not the plane for them.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51485#p51485 Thu, 10 May 2018 07:02:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51485#p51485
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51486#p51486
It is much easier for me to conclude that the plane is too heavy rather then contemplate other possible solutions ... :D]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51486#p51486 Thu, 10 May 2018 08:34:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51486#p51486
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51487#p51487
TimTaylor wrote:Of course not. But, obviously, my comment was about those who were. I think everyone here except you understand I was saying if people are going to ignore the LSA 1320 pound max gross weight, maybe they would also ignore the restriction on night flying and IFR. Only you didn't understand the point. ALL licensed pilots know they can fully exercise the privileges of their certificate if they have a current medical and are current and the airplane is certified for the activity.

Again, in case you still don't get it, some of us are trying to encourage others to follow all the regulations and not ignore the 1320 pound LSA weight limit.


I have never suggested or encouraged to anyone to not follow the regulations, actually quite the opposite. A pilot should first and foremost follow the privileges and limitations of their pilot certificate and medical status. Flying any aircraft at night or IFR under sport pilot privileges would not be legal.

Flying a LSA over gross is illegal for any pilot regardless of pilot certificate or medical status. However flying at night or IFR in a LSA is not illegal if you have the proper pilot certificates and medical status. (SLSA built after 2010 are prohibited from flying in IMC) Your statement tries to push restrictions of those flying under sport pilot privileges onto the airplane where they do not belong.

Like I said many LSA aircraft are fine aircraft in their own right. They have capabilities that go way beyond the limits of a sport pilot certificate or privileges.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51487#p51487 Thu, 10 May 2018 10:08:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51487#p51487
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51488#p51488
drseti wrote:Tim and Tom,
What part of "enough already" did you not understand?
;)


Oops! If I said anything that was out of line feel free to remove the content.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51488#p51488 Thu, 10 May 2018 10:16:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51488#p51488
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51489#p51489
The Vashon Ranger is a very interesting airplane. I would definitely opt for the Basic model if I were to purchase one. I wish it was 100 pounds lighter as currently configured.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51489#p51489 Thu, 10 May 2018 12:05:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51489#p51489
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51490#p51490 no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51490#p51490 Thu, 10 May 2018 12:16:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51490#p51490 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51491#p51491
TimTaylor wrote:If I ever purchase A Vashon Ranger, or any other LSA aircraft, I will NOT fly it over the maximum allowable gross weight. Even if it is certified at a higher weight in another country, I am flying in the US and subject to US rules and regulations. I will also not fly it at night or in IFR conditions and will not intentionally violate any other rules or regulations. Flying as a Commercial pilot without a current FAA medical certificate or Basic Med, I am flying with Sport PIlot privileges and limitations. I encourage others to follow suit and take the maximum gross weight limits (and other rules and regulations) seriously.

The Vashon Ranger is a very interesting airplane. I would definitely opt for the Basic model if I were to purchase one. I wish it was 100 pounds lighter as currently configured.


I would not expect otherwise. I would never suggest anyone do so. Myself I am a commercial pilot with a current second class medical. Because of that I can fly my LSA legally at night.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51491#p51491 Thu, 10 May 2018 13:45:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51491#p51491
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by zodiac flyer]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51494#p51494 Call me old fashioned, but I like the "keep it simple stupid" KISS.
I own a factory built AMD/Zenith 601XLB in Florida, Continental 0-200 powered and would appreciate the high wing to fly in a cooler cabin, easier entry access, excellent avionics package. The $99,500 version would suit my flying. I would be very interested to see if they hold the price, or if they do the Cessna price dance.
If they deliver on their promises, I am a potential buyer.]]>
no_email@example.com (zodiac flyer) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51494#p51494 Thu, 10 May 2018 15:04:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51494#p51494
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51495#p51495
Hambone wrote:The 75 pounds useful load gained (among many other advantages) by replacing the Ranger's antiquated powerplant with an efficient, modern fuel-injected aircraft engine seems like a no-brainer to me!


I agree, but many "geezers" (video's term, not mine!) Have no tolerance for anything that doesn't say Continental or Lycoming on the rocker covers. It's puzzling as hell considering the history of other options.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51495#p51495 Thu, 10 May 2018 15:12:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51495#p51495
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RTK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51496#p51496
I do like the concept of the Vashon Ranger, and I see the potential for good utility as a trainer or as a "fly into Oshkosh and camp in the plane" aircraft. If I didn't already have a LSA, I'd give it strong consideration if the Rotax were an option to increase useful load.]]>
no_email@example.com (RTK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51496#p51496 Thu, 10 May 2018 15:32:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51496#p51496
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51497#p51497 no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51497#p51497 Thu, 10 May 2018 15:56:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51497#p51497 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51498#p51498
zodiac flyer wrote:Call me old fashioned, but I like the "keep it simple stupid" KISS.


Call me old fashioned, but when I heard them extolling the level of “integration”, it made it sound quite complex to me.

Driving today, I had a thought: someone could buy a Ranger, take it Experimental LSA, sell the Continental for good money and buy one’s ROTAX of choice and hang it on the front. Voilá! Problem solved! Were it truly a KISS aircraft, it would be relative straightforward. But then I remembered the level of “integration” in the instruments and electronics and airframe, and suddenly it sounds like a Herculean task.

But still a fun thought exercise!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51498#p51498 Thu, 10 May 2018 16:18:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51498#p51498
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51499#p51499
If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51499#p51499 Thu, 10 May 2018 16:21:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51499#p51499
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51500#p51500
FastEddieB wrote:
zodiac flyer wrote:Call me old fashioned, but I like the "keep it simple stupid" KISS.


Call me old fashioned, but when I heard them extolling the level of “integration”, it made it sound quite complex to me.

Driving today, I had a thought: someone could buy a Ranger, take it Experimental LSA, sell the Continental for good money and buy one’s ROTAX of choice and hang it on the front. Voilá! Problem solved! Were it truly a KISS aircraft, it would be relative straightforward. But then I remembered the level of “integration” in the instruments and electronics and airframe, and suddenly it sounds like a Herculean task.

But still a fun thought exercise!


I think electronics would be easy to switch since most EFIS setups ( including Dynon's own ) can interact with multiple engines out of the box - you just need matching probes etc ...
IMHO the real issue would be the new firewall and managing CG changes - much bigger task without explicit support from the factory.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51500#p51500 Thu, 10 May 2018 16:27:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51500#p51500
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51503#p51503
MrMorden wrote: but many "geezers" (video's term, not mine!) Have no tolerance for anything that doesn't say Continental or Lycoming on the rocker covers.


Speaking as the Geezer in Charge...

It's a simple matter to remove the Rotax rocker box covers, and replace them with ones that say Lycoming or Continental. Problem solved! ;)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51503#p51503 Thu, 10 May 2018 18:02:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51503#p51503
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51504#p51504 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51504#p51504 Thu, 10 May 2018 18:28:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51504#p51504 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51505#p51505
Hambone wrote:I reckon the Continental choice is a combination of "Made in the good ol' U S of A", air-cooled simplicity, economy of scale, and an attempt to keep the final cost down by minimizing options.

If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.


Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more. Hard to see what it brings to the table beyond the “geezer factor”...]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51505#p51505 Thu, 10 May 2018 18:44:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51505#p51505
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51507#p51507
MrMorden wrote:
Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more.


Not to mention the price of spark plugs!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51507#p51507 Thu, 10 May 2018 19:32:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51507#p51507
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51508#p51508
Warmi wrote:It is too heavy for sure.
Even for your typical pattern work is not good enough if both , your CFI and the student, are at around 200 lbs.


I agree, at 882 pounds it's by far the heaviest LSA I'VE seen. As he stated it's only 8 pounds shy of the max limit for LSA.

It needs a Rotax engine. :mrgreen: Then the BEW becomes around 807 (+/- a few pounds if Andy's calculations are correct)

And if you lowered the price by $7k they'd sell like hotcakes. Of course they lose the "geezer factor". :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51508#p51508 Thu, 10 May 2018 20:16:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51508#p51508
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51509#p51509
MrMorden wrote:
Hambone wrote:I reckon the Continental choice is a combination of "Made in the good ol' U S of A", air-cooled simplicity, economy of scale, and an attempt to keep the final cost down by minimizing options.

If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.


Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more. Hard to see what it brings to the table beyond the “geezer factor”...

I was thinking more the “deal” Vashon may get buying a low-demand US engine in volume.]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51509#p51509 Thu, 10 May 2018 20:13:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51509#p51509
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51511#p51511
Hambone wrote:
MrMorden wrote:
Hambone wrote:I reckon the Continental choice is a combination of "Made in the good ol' U S of A", air-cooled simplicity, economy of scale, and an attempt to keep the final cost down by minimizing options.

If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.


Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more. Hard to see what it brings to the table beyond the “geezer factor”...

I was thinking more the “deal” Vashon may get buying a low-demand US engine in volume.


The volume will not be high if they can’t sell them because they are too heavy... :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51511#p51511 Thu, 10 May 2018 22:44:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51511#p51511
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51512#p51512 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51512#p51512 Thu, 10 May 2018 23:29:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51512#p51512 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51528#p51528 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51528#p51528 Sun, 13 May 2018 14:56:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51528#p51528 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by jetcat3]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51531#p51531 no_email@example.com (jetcat3) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51531#p51531 Sun, 13 May 2018 19:31:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51531#p51531 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51532#p51532
jetcat3 wrote:Just curious, how many of y’all have flown in a Tecnam P2008?

At $220,000+, I'd say not many.
Heard many nice things about it, but it is too expensive for my mission. YMMV.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51532#p51532 Sun, 13 May 2018 22:58:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51532#p51532
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51534#p51534
Btw. Not that their dealers care anyway ... the LSA market is so small that they can make decent living selling a few planes every year to a few very wealthy individuals who don’t really care about the price in the first place and want everything top of the line.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51534#p51534 Sun, 13 May 2018 23:31:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51534#p51534
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51536#p51536
Warmi wrote:the LSA market is so small that they can make decent living selling a few planes every year to a few very wealthy individuals who don’t really care about the price in the first place and want everything top of the line.


You can delete the words "LSA" and it's still true. In a world of $350k Skyhawks, half million dollar Cherokees, three quarters of a million dollar Cirruses, and million dollar Bonanzas, it's a wonder any of these companies are still in business.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51536#p51536 Mon, 14 May 2018 07:07:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51536#p51536
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51537#p51537
FastEddieB wrote:
Driving today, I had a thought: someone could buy a Ranger, take it Experimental LSA, sell the Continental for good money and buy one’s ROTAX of choice and hang it on the front. Voilá! Problem solved!


Good idea, but I think it wouldn't be allowed. You can't turn it into an ELSA because you didn't build it according to the manufacturer's plans. You can't convert to an EAB because you didn't build more than 51% of it. Same reason you can't buy a Cesna 150 and swap engines.

Maybe Experimental Exhibition or something else?]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51537#p51537 Mon, 14 May 2018 08:02:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51537#p51537
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51538#p51538
WDD wrote: You can't turn it into an ELSA because you didn't build it according to the manufacturer's plans.


I believe you are mistaken. There's a mechanism through which any SLSA can get a new Special Airworthiness Certificate making it an ELSA, regardless of who built it. It can then be modified, as long as the mods don't take it outside of the LSA limitations. This is the standard path when an SLSA manufacturer goes out if business, leaving existing aircraft orphaned.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51538#p51538 Mon, 14 May 2018 08:09:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51538#p51538
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51541#p51541
drseti wrote:
WDD wrote: You can't turn it into an ELSA because you didn't build it according to the manufacturer's plans.


I believe you are mistaken. There's a mechanism through which any SLSA can get a new Special Airworthiness Certificate making it an ELSA, regardless of who built it. It can then be modified, as long as the mods don't take it outside of the LSA limitations. This is the standard path when an SLSA manufacturer goes out if business, leaving existing aircraft orphaned.


Paul is correct, again, in that you can convert the Vashon S-LSA to E-LSA and make ALL the changes you want , including a different engine, as long as you keep it inside the LSA limitations. Doesn't matter who built it. There are "major" and "minor" alterations to the aircraft and each carries a few more rules but it's all doable.

It's also the "standard path" when your LSA manufacturer has a stick up its butt and won't allow its owners to make ANY changes or issue a LOA/MRA for any reason. Ask me how I know. :mrgreen:

My factory built SportCruiser was converted from S-LSA to E-LSA and I personally can make any changes to it I want as long as it conforms to the LSA rules. If I wanted to rip out the wonderful 912 that's in it and put the old geezer Continental motor, I could. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51541#p51541 Mon, 14 May 2018 08:56:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51541#p51541
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51542#p51542
WDD wrote:
Good idea, but I think it wouldn't be allowed. You can't turn it into an ELSA because you didn't build it according to the manufacturer's plans. You can't convert to an EAB because you didn't build more than 51% of it. Same reason you can't buy a Cesna 150 and swap engines.

Maybe Experimental Exhibition or something else?


Definitely CAN be done, and at least a handful of SLSA owners on this forum have done it, myself included.

Image

Some manufacturers will also let you choose to have a new Light Sport certified as ELSA on delivery. I believe most new Carbon Cub owners go that route - there are a lot of advantages. And a couple disadvantages as well.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51542#p51542 Mon, 14 May 2018 08:52:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51542#p51542
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51544#p51544
Image]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51544#p51544 Mon, 14 May 2018 13:19:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51544#p51544
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Half Fast]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51545#p51545 no_email@example.com (Half Fast) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51545#p51545 Mon, 14 May 2018 21:19:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51545#p51545 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51546#p51546 no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51546#p51546 Mon, 14 May 2018 21:22:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51546#p51546 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51547#p51547
FastEddieB wrote:Some manufacturers will also let you choose to have a new Light Sport certified as ELSA on delivery. I believe most new Carbon Cub owners go that route - there are a lot of advantages. And a couple disadvantages as well.

When purchasing a factory built RV-12 from Van's, you can select S-LSA or E-LSA.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51547#p51547 Mon, 14 May 2018 21:52:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51547#p51547
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51548#p51548
Wm.Ince wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:Some manufacturers will also let you choose to have a new Light Sport certified as ELSA on delivery. I believe most new Carbon Cub owners go that route - there are a lot of advantages. And a couple disadvantages as well.

When purchasing a factory built RV-12 from Van's, you can select S-LSA or E-LSA.


If I ever went that way I’d go ELSA in a heartbeat, as long as it still had a warranty. If not, I’d go SLSA and convert once the warranty expired - it’s only a few hundred dollars to do so.

Does Vans publicize what the ratio of SLSA to ELSA registration is? Just curious.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51548#p51548 Tue, 15 May 2018 07:32:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51548#p51548
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51550#p51550
drseti wrote:
WDD wrote: You can't turn it into an ELSA because you didn't build it according to the manufacturer's plans.


I believe you are mistaken. There's a mechanism through which any SLSA can get a new Special Airworthiness Certificate making it an ELSA, regardless of who built it. It can then be modified, as long as the mods don't take it outside of the LSA limitations. This is the standard path when an SLSA manufacturer goes out if business, leaving existing aircraft orphaned.



I stand corrected. 8)]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51550#p51550 Tue, 15 May 2018 07:54:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51550#p51550
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51552#p51552
WDD wrote:I stand corrected. 8)


It happens to everyone. :mrgreen:

Buying a factory built S-LSA and then converting it IS not for everyone but it gives you the best of both worlds in my opinion. You get a factory built LSA with ALL the freedom you could ever want to make changes to that aircraft to make it better, safer and lessen the pilot workload. It's EXACTLY what I did. Now there are many LSA manufacturers that allow changes, with some paperwork, so this conversion is not necessary. But for those orphaned aircraft and those manufacturers that won't allow changes this is the best option in my opinion. There are pros and cons (although I see no "cons") but that's a discussion for another topic.

Back to the Vashon, I can't really see how this will be a viable airplane given it's very small useful load. It looks like a rather simple and clean aircraft and a workhorse, what other airplane can you stretch out and camp in?

I feel the engine choice because of its weight will be it's achilles heel. Given that we are the "fattest" country on earth and the "average" weight of an adult male being 195.8, with 2 people aboard this will allow you just shy of 8 gallons of fuel. Where's that gonna get you? That's using 6 pounds as the weight of fuel. MOGAS or autofuel actually weighs about +/- 6.25 pounds per gallon depending a temps. Swift fuels even more.

I understand that not everyone weighs 195 pounds, some more and some less, I'm just posting this info for reference.

In the video review by Paul he says (and take this with a grain of salt) "with 2 people aboard there's capacity for 16 gallons of gas". :shock: Is there some new math I'm not aware of? That's two 171 pound people and nothing else. This means two naked people, who flies naked with their passenger? Never mind I dont need to know. :mrgreen:

I know the price is appealing and I do hope they can make a dent in the LSA arena, we need more affordable LSA aircraft.

Please remember the "L" in LSA stands for LIGHT. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51552#p51552 Tue, 15 May 2018 10:23:39 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51552#p51552
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51553#p51553
FastEddieB wrote:Does Vans publicize what the ratio of SLSA to ELSA registration is? Just curious.

I am not aware of that.
That withstanding and on another note, according to a rep from Synergy (Van's S-LSA builder), he cautioned against going E-AB vs. E-LSA. He claimed resale and the market size takes a big hit, when attempting to unload an E-AB. I think the reason is because of the 51% rule. If buying a used E-AB, except for the builder, an A/P would be required to perform the annual/condition inspection. Whereas, with E-LSA, only a 16 hour course is requied for non A/P's.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51553#p51553 Tue, 15 May 2018 10:35:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51553#p51553
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51555#p51555
Wm.Ince wrote:I am not aware of that.
That withstanding and on another note, according to a rep from Synergy (Van's S-LSA builder), he cautioned against going E-AB vs. E-LSA. He claimed resale and the market size takes a big hit, when attempting to unload an E-AB. I think the reason is because of the 51% rule. If buying a used E-AB, except for the builder, an A/P would be required to perform the annual/condition inspection. Whereas, with E-LSA, only a 16 hour course is requied for non A/P's.


Also, when buying a E-AB you have no idea of the builder skills and qualifications. Did he/she do it right? I know of a few people who bought E-AB and spent countless hours "fixing" many, many things to make it safe. What's proper and safe to one person may not be to another. Now this can also be the same for E-LSA since anyone can work on it but at least you know the factory" built" the plane right the first time. :mrgreen:

To the contrary a friend of mine bought a E-AB RV-12 a few years back and it was the most beautifully crafted E-AB RV-12 I have ever seen. The builders attention to detail on this RV-12 was impeccable.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51555#p51555 Tue, 15 May 2018 10:55:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51555#p51555
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51560#p51560
Why bother taking it to EAB?

Then again, surely something has to govern how far you can take things. I can't imagine you can take an ELSA Vans RV12 and convert it to a bi plane, etc.]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51560#p51560 Tue, 15 May 2018 17:18:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51560#p51560
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51562#p51562
WDD wrote:If you take an SLSA to ELSA, can't you then do what you want to it? Put another motor in it, etc.

Why bother taking it to EAB?

Then again, surely something has to govern how far you can take things. I can't imagine you can take an ELSA Vans RV12 and convert it to a bi plane, etc.


I dont know why you would take it to E-AB, I only have experience with E-LSA.

And yes, you can do whatever you want to it as long as it meets the following criteria so it REMAINS a LSA aircraft:

(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than -

(i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or

(ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water.

(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider.

(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity.

(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot.

(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.

(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider.

(8) A fixed or feathering propeller system if a powered glider.

(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.

(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.

(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider.

(12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water.

(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51562#p51562 Tue, 15 May 2018 17:43:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51562#p51562
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51563#p51563
WDD wrote:Then again, surely something has to govern how far you can take things. I can't imagine you can take an ELSA Vans RV12 and convert it to a bi plane, etc.


There’s nothing to say you couldn’t, as long as it remains within the LSA restrictions as posted by ShawnM.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51563#p51563 Tue, 15 May 2018 19:51:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51563#p51563
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51564#p51564 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51564#p51564 Tue, 15 May 2018 19:22:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51564#p51564 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51565#p51565
drseti wrote:Actually, it was Shawn who posted those restrictions (with which I concur, but let's give credit where it's due).


Corrected - thanks.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51565#p51565 Tue, 15 May 2018 19:51:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51565#p51565
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by smutny]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51567#p51567
WDD wrote:If you take an SLSA to ELSA, can't you then do what you want to it? Put another motor in it, etc.

Why bother taking it to EAB?


One can not move a SLSA or ELSA to E-AB. E-AB is specifically for those that build at least 51% of an aircraft.]]>
no_email@example.com (smutny) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51567#p51567 Tue, 15 May 2018 20:10:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51567#p51567
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51569#p51569 no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51569#p51569 Tue, 15 May 2018 22:03:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51569#p51569 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51570#p51570
Scooper wrote:You can move an SLSA issued a special airworthiness certificate under §21.190 to Experimental operating Light-Sport under §21.191(i)(3), but if major alterations such as an engine and/or propeller change are made, I believe Phase 1 testing must be repeated.


You would be correct Stan, many E-LSA modifications fall under the "minor" modifications category, with no additional Phase I flight testing required. And with "minor" modification the aircraft remains in the E-LSA Phase II Operating Limitations just as it was when originally converted to E-LSA.

Now a "major" modification is a different story, like making a RV-12 a biplane. :mrgreen: Depending on the scope of the modification made to your E-LSA aircraft, if it falls into the "major" modification category then re-entry to Phase I flight testing may be required by the FAA.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51570#p51570 Tue, 15 May 2018 23:07:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51570#p51570
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51575#p51575
1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51575#p51575 Wed, 16 May 2018 12:01:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51575#p51575
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51577#p51577 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51577#p51577 Wed, 16 May 2018 12:09:13 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51577#p51577 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RichK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51580#p51580
TimTaylor wrote:I would be happy with a Rotax engine in the Vashon Ranger. With the Contential, it is on the verge of being too heavy to be practical for most people.


I think a Ranger with a turbo 914 would be a great back-country aircraft, especially here in the West. I suspect Vashon would sell more 914 Rangers at $150K than they'll sell 0-200 Rangers to flight schools. Unless the LSA weight limit is lifted to 700kg, flight schools and CFIs have too much to lose sneaking around the 600kg limit.]]>
no_email@example.com (RichK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51580#p51580 Wed, 16 May 2018 15:12:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51580#p51580
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51581#p51581 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51581#p51581 Wed, 16 May 2018 15:35:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51581#p51581 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51582#p51582
RichK wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I would be happy with a Rotax engine in the Vashon Ranger. With the Contential, it is on the verge of being too heavy to be practical for most people.


I think a Ranger with a turbo 914 would be a great back-country aircraft, especially here in the West. I suspect Vashon would sell more 914 Rangers at $150K than they'll sell 0-200 Rangers to flight schools. Unless the LSA weight limit is lifted to 700kg, flight schools and CFIs have too much to lose sneaking around the 600kg limit.


I would say, ditch both Dynons and put that money towards upgrading to Rotax 915 :D]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51582#p51582 Wed, 16 May 2018 16:17:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51582#p51582
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51583#p51583
TimTaylor wrote:Let's not assume anybody is going to sneak around the weight limit. We're all about following and abiding by all the regulations.


Yes, as Tim said, let's not assume this. The rules are in place for a reason regardless of what you think of the FAA and/or the government. If/when they are ever changed is irrelevant, the rules now are 1320 for LSA for land use. Not "50 or 100 pounds over the limit" as Paul Bertorelli would have you believe.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51583#p51583 Wed, 16 May 2018 16:21:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51583#p51583
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51584#p51584
Warmi wrote:I would say, ditch both Dynons and put that money towards upgrading to Rotax 915 :D


As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51584#p51584 Wed, 16 May 2018 16:22:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51584#p51584
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51585#p51585
drseti wrote:
Warmi wrote:I would say, ditch both Dynons and put that money towards upgrading to Rotax 915 :D


As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(


Not much though ... if they ever increased gross to 1500 lbs and allowed a simple , switch based , constant prop implementation in LSAs we would have a winner here with 915 - especially for STOL style , I want to climb out like crazy, applications ...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51585#p51585 Wed, 16 May 2018 16:25:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51585#p51585
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51586#p51586
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51586#p51586 Wed, 16 May 2018 16:33:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51586#p51586
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51587#p51587
ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.

Yes and no. If it meets all the LSA specifications, then it's an LSA. Otherwise, a Sport Pilot can't fly it.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51587#p51587 Wed, 16 May 2018 16:59:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51587#p51587
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RichK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51588#p51588 https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php]]> no_email@example.com (RichK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51588#p51588 Wed, 16 May 2018 17:55:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51588#p51588 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51589#p51589
TimTaylor wrote:
ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.

Yes and no. If it meets all the LSA specifications, then it's an LSA. Otherwise, a Sport Pilot can't fly it.


Correct Tim, but I guess my point was that if you register as E-AB you dont have to keep it inside the parameters of a light sport, one could put a turbine in it if they wanted. :mrgreen: Nor is it "branded" light sport per the regulations like S-LSA or E-LSA aircraft.

Of course as you stated, a SP couldn't fly it.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51589#p51589 Wed, 16 May 2018 18:01:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51589#p51589
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51590#p51590
RichK wrote:Vashon Ranger demo flights now available at KPAE. $200 for 30-minute flight. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php


$200 for 30 minutes, 30 minutes? :shock: WOW!]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51590#p51590 Wed, 16 May 2018 18:02:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51590#p51590
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51591#p51591
ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.


What makes an aircraft a Light Sport is meeting the CFR 1.1 definition, nothing else. For certification purposes to be a ELSA or SLSA a prerequisite is it must meet the definition, but any airplane that meets the definition is a Light Sport regardless of certification method.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51591#p51591 Wed, 16 May 2018 19:32:49 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51591#p51591
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51592#p51592
3Dreaming wrote:
ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.


What makes an aircraft a Light Sport is meeting the CFR 1.1 definition, nothing else. For certification purposes to be a ELSA or SLSA a prerequisite is it must meet the definition, but any airplane that meets the definition is a Light Sport regardless of certification method.


I understand that but again my point is that if you register it as E-AB it DOES NOT have to meet the LSA definition. But if you built it and it meets the LSA definition, great. Nowhere in your FAA paperwork or your 8130-6 does it say "light sport".

Later if you decide you want to put a turbine in or add another wing or a constant speed prop, you can. You cannot do this with a E-LSA.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51592#p51592 Wed, 16 May 2018 19:50:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51592#p51592
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by jetcat3]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51593#p51593
Warmi wrote:
drseti wrote:
Warmi wrote:I would say, ditch both Dynons and put that money towards upgrading to Rotax 915 :D


As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(


Not much though ... if they ever increased gross to 1500 lbs and allowed a simple , switch based , constant prop implementation in LSAs we would have a winner here with 915 - especially for STOL style , I want to climb out like crazy, applications ...


Like this?! What a sick combo.
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/]]>
no_email@example.com (jetcat3) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51593#p51593 Wed, 16 May 2018 20:18:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51593#p51593
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RTK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51594#p51594
RichK wrote:Vashon Ranger demo flights now available at KPAE. $200 for 30-minute flight. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php


Whoa! I thought they wanted to sell these things! Maybe they're trying to see who is serious versus who isn't... but that's steep for 30 minutes.]]>
no_email@example.com (RTK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51594#p51594 Wed, 16 May 2018 20:34:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51594#p51594
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51595#p51595 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51595#p51595 Wed, 16 May 2018 20:53:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51595#p51595 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51596#p51596
jetcat3 wrote:
Warmi wrote:
drseti wrote:
As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(


Not much though ... if they ever increased gross to 1500 lbs and allowed a simple , switch based , constant prop implementation in LSAs we would have a winner here with 915 - especially for STOL style , I want to climb out like crazy, applications ...


Like this?! What a sick combo.
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/


Wow, awesome video.

And that is also a good example of an E-AB that at one time met the definition of a light sport but not anymore. Incredible take off. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51596#p51596 Wed, 16 May 2018 21:02:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51596#p51596
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51597#p51597
Warmi wrote:Actually, from what I have seen discovery/demo flights run about $150 or so per 30 minutes ... at least around here.


Around these parts they run about $99 for anything from a LSA to a 172. Heck, I can get a 45 minute demo flight in a SR-22 for $179. :mrgreen:

Which I've really been meaning to do. Love the Cirrus aircraft.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51597#p51597 Wed, 16 May 2018 21:09:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51597#p51597
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RichK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51603#p51603
jetcat3 wrote:
Warmi wrote:
drseti wrote:
As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(


Not much though ... if they ever increased gross to 1500 lbs and allowed a simple , switch based , constant prop implementation in LSAs we would have a winner here with 915 - especially for STOL style , I want to climb out like crazy, applications ...


Like this?! What a sick combo.
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/


Sick in a good way ! ! ! Wow ! ! !]]>
no_email@example.com (RichK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51603#p51603 Wed, 16 May 2018 22:21:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51603#p51603
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by RichK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51604#p51604
Warmi wrote:Actually, from what I have seen discovery/demo flights run about $150 or so per 30 minutes ... at least around here.


$200 per 30 minutes, according to Vashon. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php]]>
no_email@example.com (RichK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51604#p51604 Wed, 16 May 2018 22:25:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51604#p51604
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51605#p51605
RichK wrote:
Warmi wrote:Actually, from what I have seen discovery/demo flights run about $150 or so per 30 minutes ... at least around here.


$200 per 30 minutes, according to Vashon. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php


That might even sway me away from an aircraft.

I did not have to pay for a Cirrus demo, nor for two Sky Arrow demos - one for me and one for Karen.

I can see screening potential buyers somehow, but charging seems like it sends the wrong signal.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51605#p51605 Wed, 16 May 2018 22:48:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51605#p51605
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51606#p51606 ]]> no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51606#p51606 Wed, 16 May 2018 22:57:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51606#p51606 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51607#p51607 no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51607#p51607 Wed, 16 May 2018 23:00:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51607#p51607 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51608#p51608
I agree with others that if I’m a potential buyer and I’m serious I shouldn’t have to pay for a demo flight in your aircraft but we all know there are many tire kickers out there.

I know you can get free “demo” flights at the larger shows if you book in advance.

Another example, Icon has a sales and training facility here in Tampa and they charge $595 for a “demo” flight but it’s 2 hours.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51608#p51608 Thu, 17 May 2018 07:58:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51608#p51608
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51616#p51616 I wouldn’t buy a plane based on that single flight but at least it gave me some idea on whether to even bother with that particular model.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51616#p51616 Thu, 17 May 2018 09:49:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51616#p51616 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51617#p51617
Warmi wrote:When I was looking for a plane , for certain planes it was much easier to go for a discovery flight/lesson in some local flight school rather than traveling hundreds/thousands of miles to a dealer.
I wouldn’t buy a plane based on that single flight but at least it gave me some idea on whether to even bother with that particular model.


Same here, I got lucky and the importer for the SportCruiser was "touring" Florida with a demo plane offering flights. I lived in Orlando at the time and they came to Kissimmee so it was in my backyard and I traveled about 30 minutes for a demo flight.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51617#p51617 Thu, 17 May 2018 09:56:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51617#p51617
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51618#p51618 I have watched as other manufacturers promote their pending design for years.
All the while they are adding the costs of trade shows, sales people, demo flights, fake grass, pretty girls, hot cars, etc. to the eventual cost of each aircraft.
These manufacturers have to stop paying to market to 10,000 customers to sell only 30 airplanes because the price became too high.
This company at least seems to be running it like a real business.]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51618#p51618 Thu, 17 May 2018 10:05:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51618#p51618
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51619#p51619
A decade ago, when I was trying to sell my Beechcraft, there were a lot of tire kickers who just wanted to get free instruction or flying time. It became pretty obvious that none could afford my plane. The prospects were mostly low-time pilots who had never flown a high-performance aircraft. I started to suspect they were all looking for a free complex checkout when they started asking for me to log dual for them!

I ended up asking a couple of hundred for a thorough checkout in the plane, which would be credited toward the purchase price. Nobody was willing to invest that much - so I ended up trading in Son-of-a-Beech to a dealer on an LSA purchase. :(]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51619#p51619 Thu, 17 May 2018 10:21:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51619#p51619
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51621#p51621
drseti wrote:. . . I ended up trading in Son-of-a-Beech to a dealer on an LSA purchase. :(

In a nutshell, how would you size up your experience, owning and flying the Beech?]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51621#p51621 Thu, 17 May 2018 11:37:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51621#p51621
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51623#p51623
When I jumped into LSA, it was a completely different world, but suited my new mission perfectly (at a small fraction of the cost). Just as the Beech was well suited to a young industrialist traveling for business, LSA is perfect for a retiree!]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51623#p51623 Thu, 17 May 2018 13:35:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51623#p51623
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51624#p51624
drseti wrote:When I jumped into LSA, it was a completely different world, but suited my new mission perfectly (at a small fraction of the cost). Just as the Beech was well suited to a young industrialist traveling for business, LSA is perfect for a retiree!

Well said, Paul!]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51624#p51624 Thu, 17 May 2018 14:13:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51624#p51624
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51625#p51625
drseti wrote:It was a wonderful 30-year experience, Bill. That plane took me coast to coast and border to border more times than I can count. Great quality, very roomy and comfortable, stable IFR platform, easy to work on, good performance, and a pleasure to fly. Though the model was eventually orphaned, the Beech Aero Club always led me to a good source for parts. But toward the end I was generally flying it solo, and all those extra empty seats got expensive.
When I jumped into LSA, it was a completely different world, but suited my new mission perfectly (at a small fraction of the cost). Just as the Beech was well suited to a young industrialist traveling for business, LSA is perfect for a retiree!

Great answer, Dr. Shuch.
Thank you.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51625#p51625 Thu, 17 May 2018 14:16:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51625#p51625
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article :: Reply by c162pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51627#p51627 no_email@example.com (c162pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51627#p51627 Fri, 18 May 2018 09:13:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5073&p=51627#p51627 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by carlapilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50981#p50981 driving car is way more dangerous anyway...
but luckily not all car drivers will start to fly.. :D air would be too busy...

ct4me wrote:Statistics aside, I always go back to this: Going home from work, driving at 70mph, within 25 feet of 10 cars. No communications and poor visibility, no pre-planning or discussion about our "formation flying". Varying capability of drivers and vehicles, including good chance of impaired or distracted driving. Now THAT is scary!
]]>
no_email@example.com (carlapilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50981#p50981 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 12:04:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50981#p50981
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50982#p50982 no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50982#p50982 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 16:11:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50982#p50982 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50985#p50985
A mode of travel where you cannot slow down below certain ( still, relatively high ) speed or bad things will happen, and when you have to manage movement in 3 dimensions will always be more dangerous than driving.

What makes driving more dangerous than it should be, is the sheer number of other drivers you can't control and their close proximity - so frankly, I think what we have here is a comparison of apples and oranges - or, as MrMorden pointed out - with flying , it is as safe as you make it to be while with driving it is the other way around.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50985#p50985 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 16:48:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50985#p50985
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50986#p50986

I have given check outs & Flight Reviews to many pilots who left me scratching my head. Nothing I could/would bust them on but very mediocre skills and knowledge. I gave them some firm suggestions but there is only so much.]]>
no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50986#p50986 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 16:48:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50986#p50986
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50987#p50987
Wm.Ince wrote: (excluding two combat flying tours in Vietnam) . . . the most dangerous part of it all was driving to and from the airport.


If we don't exclude Uncle Sam's All-Expense-Paid Asian Vacation, the most dangerous part of it all for me was one flight with Air America. (I never took a second...)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50987#p50987 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:02:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50987#p50987
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50989#p50989
Warmi wrote:Flying is very unforgiving in a way that driving or frankly many other activities are not.

A mode of travel where you cannot slow down below certain ( still, relatively high ) speed or bad things will happen, and when you have to manage movement in 3 dimensions will always be more dangerous than driving.

What makes driving more dangerous than it should be, is the sheer number of other drivers you can't control and their close proximity - so frankly, I think what we have here is a comparison of apples and oranges - or, as MrMorden pointed out - with flying , it is as safe as you make it to be while with driving it is the other way around.

I disagree. I don't know the statistics, but I think driving a car is much more dangerous than flying an airplane. There's a lot more to hit and a lot more idiots on the road.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50989#p50989 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:30:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50989#p50989
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50990#p50990
drseti wrote:If we don't exclude Uncle Sam's All-Expense-Paid Asian Vacation, the most dangerous part of it all for me was one flight with Air America. (I never took a second...)

I never flew with them, but I understand completely and concur. Some of those guys were crazy.
That withstanding, many of them had nerves of steel . . . not to mention other parts of the body which were of bronze and brass.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50990#p50990 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:46:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50990#p50990
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50991#p50991
Jim Hardin wrote:Professional Flying is the key there Bill :wink:
I have given check outs & Flight Reviews to many pilots who left me scratching my head. Nothing I could/would bust them on but very mediocre skills and knowledge. I gave them some firm suggestions but there is only so much.

Concur.
Though they met standards, I could not help but wonder, if I would be reading about them at some point . . . or perhaps, a particular safety procedure was going to be named after them.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50991#p50991 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:51:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50991#p50991
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50992#p50992
TimTaylor wrote:I don't know the statistics, but I think driving a car is much more dangerous than flying an airplane. There's a lot more to hit and a lot more idiots on the road.

Absolutely correct.
The statistics are out there to prove it beyond any doubt. It's not even close.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50992#p50992 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:54:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=50992#p50992
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=51002#p51002 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=51002#p51002 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 21:17:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=51002#p51002 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How safe is flying? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=51004#p51004
TimTaylor wrote:Speaking of flight safety, we had a fatal plane crash today near Gainesville, GA. Plane belonged to Flight School Of Gwinnett. Three occupants, one killed.


Unfortunately, I may have seen that plane fly over late this afternoon while I was walking my dog. I saw a plane that looked like it was headed up GA 400 and I wondered if it was headed to Gainesville. That would have been a likely flight path from KLZU to KGVL. It crashed just a couple miles from my friend's lake house on Lake Lanier. Looks like he was making an emergency landing on GA 369 and hit some power lines and a car. I'm thinking maybe they made a touch-and-go at KGVL and were headed back to KGVL when they had engine failure. Or, maybe they never made it to KGVL. It was a Piper Arrow.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=51004#p51004 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 23:15:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5058&p=51004#p51004
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51173#p51173 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51173#p51173 Wed, 02 May 2018 16:36:44 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51173#p51173 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51179#p51179 ]]> no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51179#p51179 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:38:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51179#p51179 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51186#p51186
sportflugzeug wrote:Finding SP aircraft and an instructor is hard to come by. I am in Central Illinois. When I get off work, I drive 2 1/2 hours to fly. It makes for a long day.


Where in central Illinois?]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51186#p51186 Wed, 02 May 2018 18:00:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51186#p51186
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51188#p51188
Unfortunately, the Sport Pilot rating seems to be one of the best kept secrets in aviation. :cry:


I have found that most pilots that I talk to ask why I would want to go the SP route. They give me a list of things that I can’t do and all the restrictions. Then they ask me why SP. I tell them that I chose SP because LSA are cooler planes. They don’t know what to say after that...

Where in central Illinois?


I live in Springfield. Drive to Morris and Newark twice a week. 5 to 5 1/2 hours roundtrip... By the time I get my paper, I figure that I will have approximately 260 hours of drive time. But I’ve always liked a challenge.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51188#p51188 Wed, 02 May 2018 18:40:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51188#p51188
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51191#p51191 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51191#p51191 Wed, 02 May 2018 19:02:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51191#p51191 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51217#p51217 Back in the late 70s when I drove VWs, Porsches, MGs, Triumphs, Datsuns, and other sports cars, I got the same thing from people. “Why don’t you drive a Pontiac, or a Cadillac, or a Bronco?”
Well... because I like driving sports cars.
And I like being a sport pilot.
I wanted to become a sport pilot.
I love Light sport aircraft.
I love the more reasonable rules for inspection and repair.
I love my light sport airplane that does everything I want it to do.
The people that helped me get what I wanted got my money.]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51217#p51217 Thu, 03 May 2018 00:12:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51217#p51217
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51218#p51218 could do something doesn't mean you should.]]> no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51218#p51218 Thu, 03 May 2018 06:36:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51218#p51218 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51219#p51219 your wants and needs and not those of others.

I had a life changing event right in the middle of my training and moved away from Orlando. When I got settled in North Florida the closest sport pilot CFI was about a 50 minute drive from my house. This slowed my training, no doubt, but I sucked it up and finished. Why, because it's what I wanted to do for so long. And because I already bought the plane so I figured I'd better learn to fly it. :mrgreen:

I am perfectly healthy and could pass a medical with zero issues but I just love everything about LSA. For my purposes I have no need for a PPL as my SPL allows me to do everything I want to do with my flying. Also, I like flying my newer plane with it's glass panel and all it's bells and whistles instead of a pile of scrap aluminum that's older than I am. Just sayin' :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51219#p51219 Thu, 03 May 2018 08:53:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51219#p51219
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51221#p51221 All the benefits of maintenance , flying modern planes etc still apply and you don’t have to deal with stupid/petty limitations like no flying after civil twilight that are there just to differentiate SP from the other certificates.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51221#p51221 Thu, 03 May 2018 09:25:49 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51221#p51221 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51235#p51235
That you have to drive that far while passing numerous airports with CFI's just to find one who will train you is crazy.

So..... a work around could be to take the 3rd class medical, get a student pilot license for GA, not Sport. Take the bulk of your lessons locally. Get the basics that you'll need for a sport license. Skip night flying. Then take the sport pilot ground test, get a sport pilot student license, and then finish up your hours somewhere else.

But...... are there any sport planes in your area that you'll be able to fly after you get your license? If not, then maybe the PPL would be still an option so you could at least rent a 172 and get in the air.]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51235#p51235 Thu, 03 May 2018 12:13:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51235#p51235
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51236#p51236
WDD wrote:. Then take the sport pilot ground test, get a sport pilot student license, and then finish up your hours somewhere else.


As far as I know, there is no such thing as a Sport Pilot student license. A student pilot certificate is a student pilot certificate, regardless of whether you use it to train for SP or PP.

And, don't forget that the pre-solo written test is aircraft-specific. You'll need to take another one when you transition to LSA.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51236#p51236 Thu, 03 May 2018 12:19:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51236#p51236
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51238#p51238
WDD wrote:The tough part about this is that any GA CFI can also give instruction for someone getting their sport license. You don't even have to fly a sport plane in training. You just have to do your solo, solo cross country, and final exam in an LSA. Which means you'll have to do some transition training to the new LSA.

That you have to drive that far while passing numerous airports with CFI's just to find one who will train you is crazy.

So..... a work around could be to take the 3rd class medical, get a student pilot license for GA, not Sport. Take the bulk of your lessons locally. Get the basics that you'll need for a sport license. Skip night flying. Then take the sport pilot ground test, get a sport pilot student license, and then finish up your hours somewhere else.

But...... are there any sport planes in your area that you'll be able to fly after you get your license? If not, then maybe the PPL would be still an option so you could at least rent a 172 and get in the air.


There is only on student pilot certificate. You can do sport, recreational or private pilot training with it. You must have a medical or Basic Med to exercise the privileges of the certificate for anything other than sport pilot in a LSA.

I have started recommending recreational pilot to those who ask about sport pilot, but the medical is not an issue. I can take someone through recreational pilot and plus the training to remove the cross country restriction in less flight time in a Piper Warrior than I can do sport pilot in something like a Flight Design CT.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51238#p51238 Thu, 03 May 2018 12:23:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51238#p51238
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51239#p51239
3Dreaming wrote:. I can take someone through recreational pilot and plus the training to remove the cross country restriction in less flight time in a Piper Warrior than I can do sport pilot in something like a Flight Design CT.


I don't doubt that at all, Tom (and if I had a Warrior or similar, I might do the same). Of course, one can always go for a Rec Pilot in an LSA, if one is available. But at that point I think it makes more sense to get the SP, and then go straight for the PP add-on (also in an LSA).]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51239#p51239 Thu, 03 May 2018 12:30:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51239#p51239
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51245#p51245 As a grown man with both the money and the ability to get a pilots cert, I had done the research to know what I wanted.
I actually drove past hundreds of Cfis from Minnesota to Florida before I found a place that was happy to take my $5000-$10,000 to instruct me in an Lsa and teach me to be a Sport Pilot.
When I want a Ribeye, I don’t care that the hamburger is really just Ground steak. i don’t care that I can buy more hamburgers for the same money, or that there are more hamburger places than steak places.
Most of the Cfis I talked to were very nice, and, I am sure, competent.
Some were snotty and arrogant.
I ended up being taught (mostly) by a 21 year old guy that didn’t question my reasons for wanting to be a sport pilot.
I am a 55 year old retired Grampa that doesn’t need career or life advice from a flight instructor.
Interestingly enough, I felt the same when I was 21.
I am a smart guy and Know what I want.
Only smart, motivated people have what it takes to push through and become pilots, no?
In the end, most of the advice seemed self serving due to the fact that they already had non lsa airplanes and had been teaching private pilots for years.
Sport pilot and Lsas have been around for 14 years now. It’s time to stop pretending they are new or that they are going away.
Just my $.02]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51245#p51245 Thu, 03 May 2018 13:23:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51245#p51245
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51248#p51248
It’s not RP vs CP vs PP vs SP. We are all in this together and we are all PILOTS (except for me) who enjoy aviation.

The first issue I had was when I went to see a DPE for my Student Pilot License. The airline captain went on and on about the SP restrictions and how I was selling myself short. By the time I left, I didn’t even want to fly. Then I went and took my written. Again, the proctor at the university asked why I was going into SP when the university offered PP training. Once I started flying, I talked to my CFI about SP training and he said when your in the air and doing what you love, does it really matter at the end of the day? Except as a SP I have to land, no, it really doesn’t. 8)]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51248#p51248 Thu, 03 May 2018 15:33:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51248#p51248
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51249#p51249
That being said, I really hope you didn't spend $5-10K for a SPL. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51249#p51249 Thu, 03 May 2018 15:56:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51249#p51249
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51250#p51250 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51250#p51250 Thu, 03 May 2018 16:00:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51250#p51250 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51251#p51251 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51251#p51251 Thu, 03 May 2018 16:03:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51251#p51251 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51252#p51252
ShawnM wrote:Ditto, well stated Type47.

That being said, I really hope you didn't spend $5-10K for a SPL. :mrgreen:


Actually closer to 10 than 5.

Now that I have my own plane, that seems cheap. :|]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51252#p51252 Thu, 03 May 2018 17:00:44 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51252#p51252
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51254#p51254 Apopka, Fl was $105/hr for 2008 Tecnam Bravo wet and $65/ hr for Cfi.

$130/hr vs $170/hr.

Yes, I really chose to spend more to get my Sport Pilot Cert.

And First Landings was/is passing one after another of us Sport Pilots.]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51254#p51254 Thu, 03 May 2018 17:11:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51254#p51254
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51261#p51261 no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51261#p51261 Thu, 03 May 2018 21:55:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51261#p51261 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51266#p51266
Type47 wrote:The local Mn cost is $95/ hr for cessna 172 wet and $35/ hr for cfi.
Apopka, Fl was $105/hr for 2008 Tecnam Bravo wet and $65/ hr for Cfi.

$130/hr vs $170/hr.

Yes, I really chose to spend more to get my Sport Pilot Cert.

And First Landings was/is passing one after another of us Sport Pilots.


I started my training at First Landings when I lived in Orlando and they had a SPL program for $3195 in the Remos they had, this was in 2010-2011. Since it always takes a bit longer I expected to spend about $4200 tops. I bought my own plane and also moved before I finished. I finished up while I lived in Gainesville with an instructor in Dunnellon just west of Ocala. He has a SPL program for $3000K in an Evektor.

I'm, sorry but there's nothing "cheap" about spending $10k on a SPL. That's outrageous in my opinion. Tampa Bay Aviation offers PPL with instrument rating for $7800 in a C172. Not that that's what you wanted but I'm using it for comparison.

I just wouldn’t want someone to read this topic and think a SPL is going to cost them $10k. It simply doesn’t.

If your happy so am I. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51266#p51266 Fri, 04 May 2018 00:38:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51266#p51266
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51270#p51270 I included all expenses including driving costs, trips from mn, extra flight lessons in other planes, etc.
I saw people do the 2 week deal and spend less time and money than me at first landings.
I am not sure if they did it in the minimum hours.

My point is that I was prepared to spend more to get specifically the sport pilot cert.
And I was prepared to keep going and finish, even if it took longer and cost more than the estimates.

And yes, I am happy]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51270#p51270 Fri, 04 May 2018 08:02:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51270#p51270
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51271#p51271 I'm, glad you got exactly what you wanted also. The SPL fits all my needs also for flying to breakfast or lunch somewhere or visiting friends in and around Florida. Flying the coasts is also beautiful. The keys are just a few hours away. Again, I just didn't want a newbie pilot to read this post and give up thinking "that's way too expensive for me".

I did forget to add in the "check ride" expense of $350, I think it may be $400 now.

Adam, one of the founders at First Landings (for those who are unfamiliar with First Landings) is also a LSRM-A and did my pre-buy inspection when I found my plane. They are a top notch flight school and service center in Central Florida. I'd highly recommend them.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51271#p51271 Fri, 04 May 2018 08:31:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51271#p51271
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by rcpilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51277#p51277
Total hours before my check ride: 84.7
Hours with instructor: 62.5
Solo hours: 22.2
Instructor cost: $3410
Books, written test, check ride: $865
Approximate hourly cost of my plane(for the 84.7 hours): $3642

So, not including the cost of fuel, it was $7917. By comparison, had I had the same number of hours in the school's plane(I'm thinking after my accident they probably would have given me a new instructor, lessons would have been more frequent and shortened my learning curve a bit) it would have been $11,668(again not counting fuel). Not really a huge difference. Of course there is the convenience factor of having your own plane. Oh, and of course these are the NY prices which from what I can see are a bit more than other places(for example the school was charging me $70/hr for my instructor which included a $10/hr vig because I used my own plane).]]>
no_email@example.com (rcpilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51277#p51277 Fri, 04 May 2018 09:35:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51277#p51277
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51291#p51291
One person my take 30 hours while another takes 80 hours. The goal is to learn to fly safely, not as quickly as possible.
One person may find an LSA for rent at $110 per hour and another at $145 per hour. Another may have the resources to purchase an airplane.
One person may find an instructor for $30 per hour and another at $50 per hour.
One person may zip through training and get their license in 6 months, another may have situations that cause it to take 2 years.
Etc, etc.

My point, there are many factors that will influence cost to obtain a pilot certificate. Total cost may be as low as $4,000 or in excess of $10,000. It cost whatever it cost.

Just do it and enjoy it. Learning to fly IS flying and some of the most memorable you will ever have.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51291#p51291 Fri, 04 May 2018 12:16:39 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51291#p51291
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by chicagorandy]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51296#p51296
Those of us who want to start to learn at an advanced age and limited resources get hope and comfort from the notion that learning, wherever and however often you can, still allows a person to experience the wonder of flight.

Thanks]]>
no_email@example.com (chicagorandy) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51296#p51296 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:05:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51296#p51296
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51304#p51304
He said one plane one CFI. :D

I’ve read to many stories on here that switching CFI can be hazardous to training, as well as switching up planes.

Though I have a 5+ hour roudtrip drive for flight training, I love the plane I am training on and my CFI is awesome. It is worth the trip!]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51304#p51304 Fri, 04 May 2018 15:06:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51304#p51304
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51305#p51305 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51305#p51305 Fri, 04 May 2018 15:27:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51305#p51305 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51306#p51306 I like that idea. Fly am, do the city of Chicago, fly pm.]]> no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51306#p51306 Fri, 04 May 2018 15:54:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51306#p51306 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51308#p51308
sportflugzeug wrote:Tim,
I like that idea. Fly am, do the city of Chicago, fly pm.

That's how we did my Sport seaplane endorsement and it worked very well. Flew about 2 hours in am, lunch, then flew about 2 hours in pm. Had check ride with another CFI on day 2.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51308#p51308 Fri, 04 May 2018 16:06:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51308#p51308
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51310#p51310
Type47 wrote: If I want to get my private, maybe 6 hours of additional training in my own plane?


More like 10. You need to do your airspace training (unless you already have the endorsement), night flying (including a night XC), flight solely by reference to instruments, the longer 3-leg, 150 nm solo XC (unless you already did that), and 3 hours minimum in preparation for the checkride.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51310#p51310 Fri, 04 May 2018 16:36:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51310#p51310
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51311#p51311 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51311#p51311 Fri, 04 May 2018 16:43:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51311#p51311 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51312#p51312
drseti wrote:
Type47 wrote: If I want to get my private, maybe 6 hours of additional training in my own plane?


More like 10. You need to do your airspace training (unless you already have the endorsement), night flying (including a night XC), flight solely by reference to instruments, the longer 3-leg, 150 nm solo XC (unless you already did that), and 3 hours minimum in preparation for the checkride.


The airspace endorsement really doesn't do you much good for the private pilot, because the 3 TO and landings must be solo for the private.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51312#p51312 Fri, 04 May 2018 17:37:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51312#p51312
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51347#p51347
drseti wrote:
Type47 wrote: If I want to get my private, maybe 6 hours of additional training in my own plane?


More like 10. You need to do your airspace training (unless you already have the endorsement), night flying (including a night XC), flight solely by reference to instruments, the longer 3-leg, 150 nm solo XC (unless you already did that), and 3 hours minimum in preparation for the checkride.


At 180 + hours flying and constant studying, I am confident I can pass the written with little prep at this point.
Just need night cc and instrument flight then on to the checkride prep.

I am more likely to just go up with an instructor for a couple hours here and there just because I want to learn and experience flying at night and who can’t benefit from instrument training?
That would check off those boxes.

Then I could keep flying and adding hours until the time if or when I want to go for PP.

Maybe one of my biannual flight reviews becomes checkride prep and practical test.

Of course, I have thought of it. But I have no current plans.]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51347#p51347 Sat, 05 May 2018 21:56:13 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51347#p51347
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51357#p51357
sportflugzeug wrote:My fifth flight is tomorrow. When I first met my CFI, I told him that I wanted one plane to train on; the same plane that I would have for my check ride. I also brought up that I wanted him to be my CFI during my entire training; I asked if he was just building hours and then he would move on to bigger and better things.

He said one plane one CFI. :D

I’ve read to many stories on here that switching CFI can be hazardous to training, as well as switching up planes.


If 'one plane' means the same make and model then that is a good idea. I used 3 during my initial Student to PP path. When our C 150 was down, I went up in the C 172. Different but it was still Flying!

Same Instructor - good as long as you like them and feel they are concerned with your best interest and not just following the syllabus. And that instructor attitude trumps all else! Why would you care if he want to build time and move on. If he is a professional his end game will have no bearing on his instruction.

If you don't like him or have any reservation about them, then try another one and see what happens! You are paying a lot of money. Spend it on Satisfaction not on being uncomfortable :wink:]]>
no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51357#p51357 Sun, 06 May 2018 09:18:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51357#p51357
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51363#p51363 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51363#p51363 Sun, 06 May 2018 11:30:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4952&p=51363#p51363 <![CDATA[Training :: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Author sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51492#p51492 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51492#p51492 Thu, 10 May 2018 14:49:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51492#p51492 <![CDATA[Training :: Best books and apps for PPL beginners? :: Author carlapilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5085&p=51522#p51522 I ve read my PPL book completely and some others as well which I have on my ipad. But I ve found way too much apps to help beginners... do you recommend me some? (Some i ve downloaded is total bulls**t... )

Im interested in EVERYTHING for ppl students... printed and online magazines, mobile apps with PPL theory tests, pictures, explanations, maybe something interactive. (I prefer apps with free trial or something really good and useful.) or learning homepages which are not forums.
Thx
Carla]]>
no_email@example.com (carlapilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5085&p=51522#p51522 Sun, 13 May 2018 12:31:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5085&p=51522#p51522
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Best books and apps for PPL beginners? :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5085&p=51524#p51524 no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5085&p=51524#p51524 Sun, 13 May 2018 14:30:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5085&p=51524#p51524 <![CDATA[Training :: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Author carlapilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51523#p51523 I've checked some apps but Im a beginner so please let me know what you use??
What i ve found its complicated stuff for airliner pilots :/
My instructor is retired age former army pilot...not into digital stuff :D]]>
no_email@example.com (carlapilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51523#p51523 Sun, 13 May 2018 12:38:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51523#p51523
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51525#p51525
It's easier for me to take a picture of my paper book for backup in the cloud and write it down. One other thing, there is something just downright awesome when the DPE signs the book for your checkride, you flip back a page or two and see it again and relive it in your mind....]]>
no_email@example.com (foresterpoole) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51525#p51525 Sun, 13 May 2018 14:39:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51525#p51525
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51526#p51526
A a ForeFlight subscription on your I Pad will give you nice options to track things. In addition you get all of the Metars, MOS, taxi diagrams, up to date charts and chart supplements, check lists, etc.

Me? I showed up on day one in the plane with my I Pad, taking notes in the cockpit on the scratch pad for ATTIS, taxi diagram, etc. What I learned was it was much easier (for me) to have a good old fashioned note pad and pen on my lap to jot quick notes down instead of using the I pad.

Logbook? I used the "old fashioned" book where people write things in it with something called "an ink pen". I have my instructors signature, as well as her comments she adds at the end of each session. I do scan my log book every now and then as a back up copy. I use Excel a bit to add up my hours and what not, but for the most part the old fashioned book is working just fine.

Still use ForeFlight a lot on the ground however to check the winds and weather forecast, review the sectional charts looking at where we trained that day (ForeFlight can also log where you flew via GPS), study the taxi diagram, check for any TFR's (they do pop up every now and then), etc.]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51526#p51526 Sun, 13 May 2018 14:44:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51526#p51526
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51527#p51527 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51527#p51527 Sun, 13 May 2018 14:50:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51527#p51527 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51529#p51529 https://myflightbook.com/logbook/Default.aspx ( free, open source )The electronic version is just so I can track easily totals. I also export weekly to excel format just in case if that site goes belly up. Frankly, keeping logs in excel is all one really needs since the format is so flexible and designed for cumulative reporting etc ...

I actually auto-log all my flights incockpit using iPad version of Garmin pilot ( hours etc) but I don’t keep my records with them...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51529#p51529 Sun, 13 May 2018 16:49:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51529#p51529
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51530#p51530 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51530#p51530 Sun, 13 May 2018 17:02:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51530#p51530 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51612#p51612
I'm sure other apps have similar logging features, I'm not crowing about Garmin here, but about automated, accurate logging.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51612#p51612 Thu, 17 May 2018 08:25:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51612#p51612
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51613#p51613
Here's a small portion of it:

Image

Many columns off to the right for all the normal logbook categories.

Makes it easy to sort and total any type of info, though admittedly familiarity with Excel helps.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51613#p51613 Thu, 17 May 2018 08:46:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51613#p51613
<![CDATA[Training :: Average :: Author sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51174#p51174 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51174#p51174 Wed, 02 May 2018 16:43:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51174#p51174 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51178#p51178 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51178#p51178 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:36:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51178#p51178 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51189#p51189 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51189#p51189 Wed, 02 May 2018 18:45:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51189#p51189 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51190#p51190 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51190#p51190 Wed, 02 May 2018 18:59:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51190#p51190 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51192#p51192 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51192#p51192 Wed, 02 May 2018 19:10:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51192#p51192 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51195#p51195 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51195#p51195 Wed, 02 May 2018 19:26:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51195#p51195 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by HAPPYDAN]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51197#p51197
drseti wrote:A good rule of thumb is that your required flight hours will be highly correlated with your age, in years. (Let's face it: the older we are, the longer it takes us to acquire new skills.)

Yup. What he said. Schools that offer SPL say 25 hours. Count on a few more. Enjoy the ride!]]>
no_email@example.com (HAPPYDAN) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51197#p51197 Wed, 02 May 2018 19:40:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51197#p51197
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51200#p51200
It’s all coming together.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51200#p51200 Wed, 02 May 2018 20:47:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51200#p51200
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51202#p51202 ]]> no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51202#p51202 Wed, 02 May 2018 20:51:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51202#p51202 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51210#p51210
The Power On Stall without right rudder is not my favorite maneuver... :shock:]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51210#p51210 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:45:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51210#p51210
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51212#p51212
sportflugzeug wrote:I hope so,

The Power On Stall without right rudder is not my favorite maneuver... :shock:

Keep the ball centered. "Step on the ball." :)]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51212#p51212 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:51:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51212#p51212
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51214#p51214
drseti wrote:A good rule of thumb is that your required flight hours will be highly correlated with your age, in years. (Let's face it: the older we are, the longer it takes us to acquire new skills.)


I think the airplane you are flying has an impact on how many hours it will take as well. I think I could take someone through sport pilot in a Cub or Taylorcraft in less time compared to a more modern LSA.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51214#p51214 Wed, 02 May 2018 23:36:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51214#p51214
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51216#p51216
3Dreaming wrote:I think I could take someone through sport pilot in a Cub or Taylorcraft in less time compared to a more modern LSA.


Probably so. (Don't forget my favorite of that era, the 7AC Champ!)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51216#p51216 Wed, 02 May 2018 23:55:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51216#p51216
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51222#p51222
drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:I think I could take someone through sport pilot in a Cub or Taylorcraft in less time compared to a more modern LSA.


Probably so. (Don't forget my favorite of that era, the 7AC Champ!)


Or even a Luscombe.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51222#p51222 Thu, 03 May 2018 09:41:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51222#p51222
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51227#p51227
The power OFF is landing Stall. So I configure the plane; fuel pump on, 30 -50 flaps, carb heat on, mags on both, lift nose up until buffet, I DO NOT KNOW RPM, alleviate stick pressure, use rudders if necessary, stay OFF ailerons, nose goes down, full throttle, 50-30 flaps then 30-15 flaps the. 0 flaps. Flying forward full throttle increased airspeed out of Stall.

The power ON stall is departing stall. 15 flaps, fuel pump on, mags on both, carb heat in (OFF), wait until in white arc, I DO NOT KNOW THE RPM, lift nose wait until buffet, stall, and then after that I’m lost...

The above information is what I think I know. I could have many things wrong.

Can anyone help me? Thanks.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51227#p51227 Thu, 03 May 2018 11:25:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51227#p51227
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51228#p51228
sportflugzeug wrote:I am confused about the power on power off stalls.
The power off is lading Stall. So I configure the plane; fuel pump on, 30 -50 flaps, carb heat on, mags on both, lift nose up until buffet, I DO NOT KNOW RPM, alleviate stick pressure, use rudders if necessary, stay OFF ailerons, nose goes down, full throttle, 50-30 flaps then 30-15 flaps the. 0 flaps. Flying forward full throttle increased airspeed out of Stall.
The power off stall is departing stall. 15 flaps, fuel pump on, mags on both, carb heat in (OFF), wait until in white arc, I DO NOT KNOW THE RPM, lift nose wait until buffet, stall, and then after that I’m lost...
Can anyone help me? Thanks.

Is there a typo in your post?]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51228#p51228 Thu, 03 May 2018 11:10:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51228#p51228
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51229#p51229
sportflugzeug wrote:I am confused about the power on power off stalls.

The power off is landing Stall. So I configure the plane; fuel pump on, 30 -50 flaps, carb heat on, mags on both, lift nose up until buffet, I DO NOT KNOW RPM, alleviate stick pressure, use rudders if necessary, stay OFF ailerons, nose goes down, full throttle, 50-30 flaps then 30-15 flaps the. 0 flaps. Flying forward full throttle increased airspeed out of Stall.

The power off stall is departing stall. 15 flaps, fuel pump on, mags on both, carb heat in (OFF), wait until in white arc, I DO NOT KNOW THE RPM, lift nose wait until buffet, stall, and then after that I’m lost...

The above information is what I think I know. I could have many things wrong.

Can anyone help me? Thanks.


The way I remembered this stuff was simply to note that the power on stall , the departing stall, is there to simulate stalls on departure - so set up your plane the way you would be set up as you were taking off. Exact details are plane specific but ultimately , these stalls are there to simulate conditions when you are taking off and when you are landing so set up the plane appropriately for these conditions and you will have the correct setup.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51229#p51229 Thu, 03 May 2018 11:24:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51229#p51229
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51230#p51230
This goes the same for Power On. When I depart, I take off, have 15 degree flaps, get out of ground effect at 60-65 knots, raise nose, and climb. When I am clear of obstacles, lower flaps to 0.

I am sorry to ask such rudimentary questions, but there has been so much to learn in the past 4 flights.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51230#p51230 Thu, 03 May 2018 11:35:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51230#p51230
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51231#p51231 Slow down to your Vfe speed , extend first notch of flaps, then slow down some more , go for the second notch and so on... until you are setup up as if you were on final and then pull the nose up and stall the plane.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51231#p51231 Thu, 03 May 2018 11:42:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51231#p51231 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51232#p51232
http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/4492106941001]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51232#p51232 Thu, 03 May 2018 11:50:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51232#p51232
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51233#p51233
I taught myself German in 2 1/2 years, learning over 15,000 words and composition. I tapped into a part of my brain that had never been worked. As I go through this journey of aviation, I feel as though I am working parts of my cortex that have never been worked. Good stuff!

Thank you drseti,
I will watch the video after work and take notes. I need all the help I can get. My CFI is a fabulous instructor, but when I get home I get jumbled because I am on information overload.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51233#p51233 Thu, 03 May 2018 11:59:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51233#p51233
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51237#p51237
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4663&p=45128#p45128]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51237#p51237 Thu, 03 May 2018 12:23:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51237#p51237
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51256#p51256 I read your entire thread from when you had 2 hours in December 2016 to your solo in February 2017. Amazing job!

drseti
I just watched the entire video on stalls. Thanks you so much! Great video. It was extremely helpful.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51256#p51256 Thu, 03 May 2018 19:36:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51256#p51256
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51348#p51348
Lesson learned.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51348#p51348 Sat, 05 May 2018 22:19:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51348#p51348
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51349#p51349
sportflugzeug wrote:I found out today if you don’t fly in 5 days, you can get a little rusty. I spent 1/2 hour warming up (relearning) on patterns and 1/2 hours actually doing them well.

Lesson learned.


What time you were up there at ? Was it bumpy ?

I went out with my wife around noon for a flight down to Champaign IL and oh ... was that a major mistake...
Ended up having miserable 40 minutes of constant bumps and thermals ...sometime soaring at almost 1000 FPM - my wife was a bit freaked out -she said no more flights like that :D. ... only mornings or evenings...heh]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51349#p51349 Sat, 05 May 2018 22:31:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51349#p51349
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51350#p51350
I now have been 5 hours total flying time. What is the correct term...Hobbs?]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51350#p51350 Sat, 05 May 2018 22:43:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51350#p51350
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51351#p51351 ]]> no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51351#p51351 Sat, 05 May 2018 22:45:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51351#p51351 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by RTK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51365#p51365
sportflugzeug wrote:Thank you. I guess the confusing part for power off is when I come in for landing, I add 15 flaps past ABeam, 30 flaps on Base, 50 flaps on Final. That takes a while. But for a power off stall maneuver, it’s done right now. So do I just go from 0 to 50 or are there a series of steps.


Interesting to hear of the 15 degrees of flap abeam the numbers. I was taught to have 15 degrees of flap downwind and STABILIZE the aircraft at 65 knots and maintain altitude, then turn base and add flaps as needed (usually 30 degrees), and all flaps on final (provided it’s not windy. If it is windy, then a no-flap landing.)

The reason I capitalized “stabilized” is that my CFI drilled that into my head. Winds and gusts will move you around, but you should have command of the aircraft and be able to maintain speed and approach. If you turn too short a final and make too many changes at one time (or in short succession, such as adding flaps quickly) it will increase your workload and you’ll be busy trying to maintain speed, glide angle and alignment with the runway.

I might suggest trying to extend your downwind a little so that you have more time on final to maintain speed and add flaps. Better to be a little high and slip it in than to be low and drag the airplane in under power. Oh, and a “go around” is always an option.

Don’t be discouraged... hang in there as it is all experiential. You’ll encounter more updraft and winds in the afternoon than morning, but good to experience it all as these will help build your confidence in flight.]]>
no_email@example.com (RTK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51365#p51365 Sun, 06 May 2018 12:19:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51365#p51365
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51366#p51366 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51366#p51366 Sun, 06 May 2018 12:24:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51366#p51366 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51372#p51372
TAKE OFF
Flaps 15 degree
Full power
Right rudder
MORE RIGHT RUDDER!!!!
NOT ENOUGH RIGHT RUDDER!!!!!!!!
Once plane airborne, keep in ground effect until
speed achieved;

DEPARTURE
Go out 1/2 mile
Stay 300 ft below TPA (1500); so climb up to 1200 msl
“Positive rate of climb”
“Clear of obstacles”
“Flaps at 0”

CROSSWIND
5000 RPM 1500 msl
As soon as turn into downwind, lower to 4000RPM

DOWNWIND
Check fuel pump on
Mags on both
Chock off
Carb heat on

ABEAM
Lower to 3000 RPM (FIRST)
15 degree flaps (SECOND)
Lower to to begin descent

BASE
Verify again fuel pump on, lights on, mags on both, choke in, carb heat out (on).
30 degree flaps
Lower nose and bank.
Keep nose low so there is no power off stall
Base can be most dangerous for Traffic Pattern

FINAL
Flaps 50 degrees
Watching RPM around 2400 to 2900. Adjust if necessary.
Keep nose down
Glide in.
Crab if necessary

LANDING
Idle power
Discontinue crab
Use appropriate rudder when in ground effect
Keep nose up
KEEP NOSE UP!!!!

Full throttle
Right rudder
Carb heat in (off)
15 degree flaps
Stay in ground effect until speed acquired; lower nose
And let’s do it again.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51372#p51372 Sun, 06 May 2018 13:58:13 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51372#p51372
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51384#p51384 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51384#p51384 Sun, 06 May 2018 16:50:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51384#p51384 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51386#p51386
My instructor was all about power off landings - to the point that I actually feel somewhat dirty now when I have to use power anytime past abeam the numbers... especially if it has nothing to do with gusting winds and is just me misjudging my glide slope :D

Here is a s imilar pattern check-list as in your post except pasted over the actual video of me flying one at KARR ( Aurora ) in Remos GX.
https://youtu.be/tQ2n2CDPtNM]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51386#p51386 Sun, 06 May 2018 17:15:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51386#p51386
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51387#p51387
Warmi wrote:My instructor was all about power off landings


Gee, I really like your instructor! :)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51387#p51387 Sun, 06 May 2018 17:21:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51387#p51387
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51388#p51388 I watched your video. You’re landing was spot on; centerline, smooth, and not hard. I guess I can appreciate a good landing now that I practice them and see how hard they are. I find a hard landing ruins my entire pattern; the complete good pattern consists of a good landing too.

You went from full throttle on departure to 4000RPM on Crosswind. I have on my notes to lower to 4000RPM immediately after I make the downwind turn. I will flag that particular note and ask my CFI if it is correct or not.

Great video; good music.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51388#p51388 Sun, 06 May 2018 17:33:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51388#p51388
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51389#p51389
sportflugzeug wrote:warmi,
I watched your video. You’re landing was spot on; centerline, smooth, and not hard. I guess I can appreciate a good landing now that I practice them and see how hard they are. I find a hard landing ruins my entire pattern; the complete good pattern consists of a good landing too.

You went from full throttle on departure to 4000RPM on Crosswind. I have on my notes to lower to 4000RPM immediately after I make the downwind turn. I will flag that particular note and ask my CFI if it is correct or not.

Great video; good music.


Well I didn’t mean to imply he was wrong or anything like that ... as I mentioned, all instructors are different and follow different styles - it was just an example of how I was instructed so follow whatever your instructor is teaching you - he knows what he is doing.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51389#p51389 Sun, 06 May 2018 17:40:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51389#p51389
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51390#p51390 ]]> no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51390#p51390 Sun, 06 May 2018 17:44:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51390#p51390 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51391#p51391 At my airport (c56) which is more like Morris , I generally reach pattern altitude when I turn downwind , just like you wrote in your post.]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51391#p51391 Sun, 06 May 2018 17:49:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51391#p51391 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51392#p51392
sportflugzeug wrote:I just watched your cross country flight. You landed at Morris Municipal where I fly. :D


Yeah, Aurora is very close to Morris.
When it was too busy at Aurora , we used to fly to Morris to do some pattern work ... :D fun times.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51392#p51392 Sun, 06 May 2018 17:55:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51392#p51392
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51400#p51400
A typical generic one:

TAKEOFF/DEPARTURE STALL

ENTRY

1) Clearing Turns

2) Carb Heat - ON

3) Throttle - 1,500 rpm

4) Altitude - MAINTAIN (trim as necessary)

5) at 65 kts, Carb Heat - OFF, FULL POWER

6) Pitch - MAINTAIN UNTIL STALL (Either Full or Imminent)

RECOVERY...


And so on. Eventually I’d expect the student to memorize these, but the flash cards are a good way to start.

Maybe make some up from memory and run them past your instructor.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51400#p51400 Mon, 07 May 2018 08:25:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51400#p51400
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51403#p51403 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51403#p51403 Mon, 07 May 2018 10:41:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51403#p51403 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51421#p51421 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51421#p51421 Mon, 07 May 2018 17:31:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51421#p51421 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by dogugotw]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51640#p51640 Stats: I'm 64, try and fly 2 times per week, more often around each scheduled checkride. Around Jan I was a bit over 60 hour and was ready for the checkride.
If this keeps up, I may save money and move up to PPL...plane is more but DPE's are more available...]]>
no_email@example.com (dogugotw) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51640#p51640 Sat, 19 May 2018 19:51:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51640#p51640
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51642#p51642
dogugotw wrote:My DPE's schedule runs 4-8 weeks out.


Sadly, you're not alone - that's a problem throughout the LSA industry, and what motivated me to become a DPE. (See my thread on the subject.)

You didn't say where you're located, but if you're within range of Central PA, I can probably schedule you in within a week or two.

Meanwhile, my new DPE website at http://SportPilotExaminer.US might be of interest to you.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51642#p51642 Sat, 19 May 2018 20:10:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51642#p51642
<![CDATA[Training :: Headset :: Author sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51628#p51628
My CFI said I need to start bringing one to my training from now on.

As a student, I do not need anything fancy or expensive, as I will update when the time comes.

If anyone can here can assist me I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.]]>
no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51628#p51628 Fri, 18 May 2018 10:29:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51628#p51628
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51629#p51629 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/a ... eadset.php]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51629#p51629 Fri, 18 May 2018 10:56:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51629#p51629 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51630#p51630 no_email@example.com (sportflugzeug) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51630#p51630 Fri, 18 May 2018 11:00:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51630#p51630 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by rcpilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51631#p51631
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A6KE0RC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1]]>
no_email@example.com (rcpilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51631#p51631 Fri, 18 May 2018 12:49:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51631#p51631
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51632#p51632
sportflugzeug wrote:Those are nice. Are they durable enough to wear throughout my training and more? What is non-ANR?

ANR is Active Noise Reduction which basically means electronics in the headset cancel out engine background noise; it helps reduce fatigue and hearing loss. ANR headsets are generally much more expensive than non-ANR headsets.

Non-ANR headsets are passive (no electronic noise canceling) and depend on the headset's ear seals to reduce engine background noise.

For training purposes non-ANR headsets with 20-25 dB passive noise reduction will work fine (the MGL headset from Aircraft Spruce has 27 dB passive noise reduction, which is quite good). Later on you can evaluate different ANR models and invest in them if you want.]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51632#p51632 Fri, 18 May 2018 13:30:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51632#p51632
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51633#p51633
For me I have been flying since the late 70's. I had a top of the line David Clark from back then. As I got older it got so uncomfortable to wear that it gave me headaches. Back in 2006 I went looking for headsets and tried Bose X, first gen Light Speed Zulus, and wound up with a David Clark X11. The fit me best for comfort, and the noise cancelling was pretty good. They weren't the most expensive or quietest, but they suited me the best.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51633#p51633 Fri, 18 May 2018 13:43:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51633#p51633
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51634#p51634
Sierra headsets are mid-upper level model with ANR and cost about $600.
The MGL ones are non-ANR and cost about $150 or ...

The Sierra headset is nicer and quieter but not 4 times , as the price suggest - in the end it is a personal choice and as you approach top level headsets (Bose , Zulu - $1000) the law of diminishing returns starts to kick in ...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51634#p51634 Fri, 18 May 2018 13:50:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51634#p51634
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51635#p51635 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51635#p51635 Fri, 18 May 2018 14:58:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51635#p51635 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by smutny]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51650#p51650 no_email@example.com (smutny) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51650#p51650 Sun, 20 May 2018 12:32:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51650#p51650 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51651#p51651
3Dreaming wrote:Headsets are a very personal choice item. What works well for one might cause issues for another. I would recommend you buy something inexpensive for your training, and the use it as a passenger headset after you are finished. When you get a chance go to an avionics shop or a major airshow like Oshkosh and try on different headsets. Buy the quietest most comfortable headset you can afford. The most expensive headset is not always an individuals best choice.


Great advice there. I too am a student. I bought a used set of David Clark basic model 10. When I finish up training I'll treat myself to another headset and use the David Clark set for passenger. By the time I finish up I'll know a lot more about what works for me, what the best headset is. I'm finding out I value noise reduction most of all, light weight next. I'm thinking Clarity Aloft might be the ticket, as it has higher noise reduction than even the expensive Boise ANR. But still time to figure it out.

So yes, 1) get a used, affordable, rugged headset from E Bay or something like that, and 2) figure out after training what really works for you, and then get it. Use the first set as the backup - passenger set.

BTW - cool that you're thinking of the GF at this time, but it will be a bit before she can ride with you, so don't worry about it now. AND... as GF and wives go, let HER pick out the headset. AND........ no, don't make it a Valentine's Day or Anniversary present..... :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51651#p51651 Sun, 20 May 2018 12:48:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51651#p51651
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51653#p51653 not to use an ANR headset for training. I want them to learn to observe and interpret engine sound and wind noise, and AMT makes them virtually deaf to their environment.]]> no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51653#p51653 Sun, 20 May 2018 13:11:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51653#p51653 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51654#p51654 Frankly sometimes I wish it was quieter ...]]> no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51654#p51654 Sun, 20 May 2018 13:23:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51654#p51654 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51659#p51659
I got this same advice when I was shopping for a road bike for cycling. I almost bought a really nice aluminum bike with many bells and whistles. A woman I ride with told me "spend a little more now on a full carbon fiber bike and you'll be very happy later". She was right. I spent more money up front but got a bike that will last me a very long time without the need to upgrade.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51659#p51659 Sun, 20 May 2018 20:44:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51659#p51659
<![CDATA[Training :: Why we use checklists..... :: Author ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51643#p51643
I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:

This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:

Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.

The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

PS - This is my all time favorite airplane and it was sad to see it here instead of in his hangar.

IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg

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IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg (96.62 KiB)


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no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51643#p51643 Sun, 20 May 2018 07:31:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51643#p51643
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by chicagorandy]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51644#p51644
I thought them there 'fancy' airplanes had warning horns for landing gear deployment or lack thereof? Or did the pilot experience a mechanical gear failure?]]>
no_email@example.com (chicagorandy) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51644#p51644 Sun, 20 May 2018 08:01:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51644#p51644
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51645#p51645
I would've thought this plane would have a warning system also. I tried to google this and saw some info about a gear warning system but nothing definitive.

There were no calls made about any failures and no emergency vehicles on site. I think it was just an oversight. I saw one person talking to the pilot but I certainly wasn't going to ask him anything. His ego was bruised enough.

He was landing on runway 5 and came to a stop just about half way down the runway. They are now waiting on a company to bring in some airbags to lift it up to hopefully get the gear down and move it off the runway back to his hangar.

This will certainly ruin your day.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51645#p51645 Sun, 20 May 2018 08:23:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51645#p51645
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51646#p51646 no_email@example.com (Sling 2 Pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51646#p51646 Sun, 20 May 2018 09:18:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51646#p51646 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51647#p51647
Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51647#p51647 Sun, 20 May 2018 09:52:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51647#p51647
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51648#p51648
ShawnM wrote:This boys and girls is why we use CHECKLISTS !!!! This poor guy closed the main runway, 5/23, at my airport today.
I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:
This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:
Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.
The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

What are the facts of the accident? Have you read the NTSB final report?
If you haven't, I caution you on making such irresponsible and hasty assertions.
Your post sounded like a snippet from a tabloid newspaper.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51648#p51648 Sun, 20 May 2018 09:58:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51648#p51648
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51649#p51649 What do I know? I'm just a writer for the National Enquirer. :mrgreen:]]> no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51649#p51649 Sun, 20 May 2018 12:08:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51649#p51649 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51655#p51655
ShawnM wrote:Since my friend Ted was the first to call the airport manager at the FBO to inform him of the gear up landing and there were no emergency vehicles on site and the gear was tucked away nice and neat in the plane with no signs of a collapse we ALL on site came to the consensus that he forgot the gear.

Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.

I agree. If it was a mechanical failure, he would have been in contact with the manufacturer trying to solve the problem. He would have been in contact with people at the airport, etc. Nobody just lands an airplane with mechanical gear failure without taking every possible course of action to solve the problem.

Regarding a gear warning, believe it or not, people have managed to land gear up with a gear warning horn blaring away. Obviously, we don't know what happened here.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51655#p51655 Sun, 20 May 2018 13:46:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51655#p51655
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51657#p51657
(Fortunately, it was on grass, with very little damage.)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51657#p51657 Sun, 20 May 2018 17:26:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51657#p51657
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51658#p51658 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51658#p51658 Sun, 20 May 2018 19:09:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51658#p51658 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Half Fast]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51660#p51660
1. Shut off engine.
2. Master switch OFF.
3. Move gear selector to DOWN position.]]>
no_email@example.com (Half Fast) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51660#p51660 Sun, 20 May 2018 21:20:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51660#p51660
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51661#p51661
3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51661#p51661 Sun, 20 May 2018 22:27:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51661#p51661
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51663#p51663
Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51663#p51663 Mon, 21 May 2018 07:30:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51663#p51663
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51665#p51665
ShawnM wrote:
Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right?


We do.

Has not happened to me - yet.

But I have a friend who I taught to fly in my Citabria, and later he bought a Mooney and I transitioned him to it. I’m big on checklists and hopefully ingrained that in him.

But...

One day at Opa Locka he was all gear down and locked on final in his Mooney, but had to do around. Gear up is part of the go around procedure. He was then cleared to land and did so. With the gear still up.

And that’s usually how it happens - some distraction or break in procedures. It’s specifically not stupidity, nor usually lack of training. Just human foibles at work.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51665#p51665 Mon, 21 May 2018 09:56:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51665#p51665
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51666#p51666
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:


Roll your eyes all you want. I was just saying there could be reasons beyond just simply not putting the gear down.

I know of an incident with a Bonanza, where almost the exact same thing happened. The only difference was they did put the gear down. The fellow was on his way to Evansville to get some radio work done. He had just made radio contact when he had an electrical system failure. He turned around and headed back to his home airport. He cranked the gear down, and flew across the FBO a couple times trying to get someone to come out and look at the gear. Anyway he landed with no issue. On the Bonanza the battery box on the firewall seems like a place that mechanics will lay down tools while working. There was an errant 1/4" universal joint that a mechanic didn't get picked up. It slid off the box and down the firewall getting lodged between the positive battery cable and the firewall at the solenoid. He was lucky that it didn't cause a fire. The electrical failure was almost instantaneous. I had not worked on the airplane before, but I was the one who found the universal joint that was causing the problem.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51666#p51666 Mon, 21 May 2018 10:17:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51666#p51666
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51669#p51669
Other planes may have this as well but the Bellanca had a quasi failsafe mode. You could set the switch to Auto and the gear would automatically extend when you got below 100 mph.]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51669#p51669 Mon, 21 May 2018 10:35:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51669#p51669
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51670#p51670
They dragged the airplane off to the side, where it sat beside the runway the entire four day fly-in to remind the pilot of his folly.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51670#p51670 Mon, 21 May 2018 10:46:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51670#p51670
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51671#p51671
ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51671#p51671 Mon, 21 May 2018 11:41:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51671#p51671
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51672#p51672
ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.


DISTRACTION.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51672#p51672 Mon, 21 May 2018 13:42:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51672#p51672
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51675#p51675
IDENTIFICATION
Date: 19-MAY-18
Time: 17:10:00Z
Regis#: N83JR
Aircraft Make: PILATUS
Aircraft Model: PC 12 47E
Event Type: INCIDENT
Highest Injury: NONE
Aircraft Missing: No
Damage: UNKNOWN

LOCATION
City: ZEPHYRHILLS
State: FLORIDA
Country: UNITED STATES
DESCRIPTION
Description: AIRCRAFT LANDED GEAR UP, ZEPHYRHILLS FL

OTHER
Activity: PERSONAL
Flight Phase: LANDING (LDG)
Operation: 91
Aircraft Operator:
Flight Number:
FAA FSDO: TAMPA FSDO
Entry Date: 21-MAY-18
Updated since entry: No]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51675#p51675 Mon, 21 May 2018 14:11:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51675#p51675
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51679#p51679 no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51679#p51679 Mon, 21 May 2018 17:32:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51679#p51679 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51680#p51680 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51680#p51680 Mon, 21 May 2018 19:52:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51680#p51680 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51681#p51681
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/05/pilatus-pc-1247e-n83jr-incident.html]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51681#p51681 Mon, 21 May 2018 21:04:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51681#p51681
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51682#p51682 had done the checklist. Which he had - before raising the gear again, of course.

I am “Mr. Checklist”, yet at least once I’ve gone to turn off my boost pump after landing, only to realize I never turned it on. Invariably because of something outside of routine going on. It happens. Obviously!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51682#p51682 Mon, 21 May 2018 21:27:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51682#p51682
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Flying photo :: Reply by Scooper]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51636#p51636
Image]]>
no_email@example.com (Scooper) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51636#p51636 Fri, 18 May 2018 19:53:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51636#p51636
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Flying photo :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51638#p51638

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no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51638#p51638 Fri, 18 May 2018 20:45:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51638#p51638
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Flying photo :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51639#p51639
funkrhv.jpg

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no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51639#p51639 Fri, 18 May 2018 20:54:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51639#p51639
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Flying photo :: Reply by smutny]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51652#p51652
I've flown the photo ship for a few shoots. Just a couple weeks ago I flew a photog to shoot an Acro Sport and One Design for Sport Aerobatics out of a 172. We always start with a detailed briefing, and depending on subject pilot experience, will walk the entire flight on the ramp before takeoff.]]>
no_email@example.com (smutny) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51652#p51652 Sun, 20 May 2018 12:48:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51652#p51652
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Flying photo :: Reply by David]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51683#p51683
Photo by Brent from his Rv12 with Mark #1 and me #2 in formation to Oshkosh]]>
no_email@example.com (David) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51683#p51683 Tue, 22 May 2018 19:39:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51683#p51683
<![CDATA[Training :: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Author B747]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51684#p51684 Thank you]]> no_email@example.com (B747) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51684#p51684 Tue, 22 May 2018 22:10:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51684#p51684 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51685#p51685 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51685#p51685 Tue, 22 May 2018 23:57:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51685#p51685 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by rcpilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51686#p51686 no_email@example.com (rcpilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51686#p51686 Wed, 23 May 2018 07:47:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51686#p51686 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by B747]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51690#p51690 no_email@example.com (B747) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51690#p51690 Wed, 23 May 2018 17:54:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51690#p51690 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51691#p51691
Know the limitations legal, airplane, and personal. For example the legal requirement for fuel is what's required plus 30, Your personal might be 45 to 60 minutes. What is the maximum crosswind component? Would you fly with the maximum crosswind? Show good personal judgement. Just because there is a limit doesn't mean you have you have to go to the limit.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51691#p51691 Wed, 23 May 2018 18:19:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51691#p51691
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by B747]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51692#p51692 no_email@example.com (B747) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51692#p51692 Wed, 23 May 2018 18:28:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51692#p51692 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51693#p51693 Questions about W&B , how it affects handling , nose-heavy vs tail-heavy etc .... not much different than the written exam except mostly based around real life scenarios.

On the practical portion, it was a 10 minutes cross country flight using GPS ( he basically told me to fly the way I would normally fly ) followed by ground maneuvers , various stalls and then a lot of time spent simulating emergencies .. all the way to the ground (300 agl or so )
We finished by going back to the airport and doing bunch of landings , which happened to be probably some of my best landings , and that was it .

Overall about 2 hours and 30 minutes ...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51693#p51693 Wed, 23 May 2018 18:33:39 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51693#p51693
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51694#p51694
At some point, he may give you a new destination. With or without the use of your GPS, you should be able to turn toward your new destination and go there. While headed toward your new destination, be able to verify your new heading, distance, and ETA to the new destination and verify that you have enough fuel to get there with 30 minutes of reserve or more.

These are things you need to be able to do, not just to pass a flight test, but to be a pilot.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51694#p51694 Wed, 23 May 2018 19:40:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51694#p51694
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by rcpilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51695#p51695
B747 wrote:Thank you for this information, in regards to Know your aircraft and personal limitations, what do you mean by that, in what aspect of knowing my aircraft? also re weather, what type of questions? Also how does it work, when the examiner asks you to deviate to a different airport, is it the alternative airport you prepared in advance? also how much time do you have to recalculate the TC, TH MH and all the information to get to the alternative airport, while in air and continuing to fly the plane, for me thinking about that point, seems the most stressful


You would need to know what your planes maximum x-wind/head wind components are. Let's say your plane can handle a 15 kt x-wind but maybe you're not comfortable with that. Again when I told him you can fly in 3 mile visibility(legally) the DPE said "trust me you don't want to fly in 3 mile visibility." We did not discuss an alternate in advance(but I'm sure he had one in mind). When he asked me for heading and distance to the "alternate" I didn't whip out the plotter or E6B. I was taking my check ride on Long Island. A direct course to the "alternate" would have had me flying over the sound. So I told him I would fly along the North shore up to a particular point(gave him the landmark off the sectional) then cross over to minimize my time over open water. The "alternate" happened to be close to where I had flown for my x-country and since I remembered the distance to there I was able to "ballpark" the distance. Of course he told me that the compass roses(or whatever they are called) on the sectional have a certain distance diameter(I don't remember what it is)and you can use that to calculate distance on the fly(so to speak). The one weather question I remember was what does it mean when the temperature and dew point are the same? Again, the DPE is not there to fail you and they are instructional as well as testing you. So as long as you have a reasonable idea of what you are doing and why, you'll be fine.]]>
no_email@example.com (rcpilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51695#p51695 Thu, 24 May 2018 07:59:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51695#p51695
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50984#p50984
3Dreaming wrote:
drseti wrote:Tom, here's a link to the FAA DPE search engine:

http://av-info.faa.gov/DesigneeSearch.asp

Use the pulldowns to select the category/class of aircraft, and the FAA District of interest.


I've looked at this before. The pull down gives lots of choices but glider and airplane are not among them. even when you go to the individual FSDO it doesn't state airplane or glider.


Wouldn't the https://www.ssa.org/ be a source? Might have to join.]]>
no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50984#p50984 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 16:39:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50984#p50984
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50993#p50993
Jim Hardin wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
drseti wrote:Tom, here's a link to the FAA DPE search engine:

http://av-info.faa.gov/DesigneeSearch.asp

Use the pulldowns to select the category/class of aircraft, and the FAA District of interest.


I've looked at this before. The pull down gives lots of choices but glider and airplane are not among them. even when you go to the individual FSDO it doesn't state airplane or glider.


Wouldn't the https://www.ssa.org/ be a source? Might have to join.


Both my son and I are members. I haven't seen anything looking on their website. I guess I need to send them a message, and maybe suggest such a list. Lack of a DPE is one of the reasons I am working with the clubs 2 instructors to do a glider sport pilot add on. Neither have done anything sport pilot before, and are unsure of the process. I have been trying to walk them through it. Later I plan to add my commercial and sub part H instructor when there is a DPE around. I think one is maybe coming to an event in June.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50993#p50993 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:01:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50993#p50993
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by comperini]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50994#p50994 no_email@example.com (comperini) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50994#p50994 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:09:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50994#p50994 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50996#p50996
3Dreaming wrote: Neither have done anything sport pilot before, and are unsure of the process.


Tom, send them to my EAA webinar "Category and Class" from 4 years ago, at:

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/3830218310001]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50996#p50996 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 20:05:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=50996#p50996
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51020#p51020
The last step in the DPE certification process is to have an FAA inspector observe me doing a practical exam. This requires aligning the availablity of me, a candidate, his or her CFI, an aircraft, the FAA inspector, the weather, and the stars. I had this all arranged for today, but day before yesterday the applicant told me he just wasn't ready yet.

Of course, you never want to rush anybody's test prep, so I can't fault the applicant for making that decision. Problem is, the FAA inspector won't be available again for a month. :(

Meanwhile, I'm going to my FSDO Wednesday to attend the Region's annual Designee meeting/seminar (even though I'm not one yet - I figure I'll learn something), and have to wait for the stars to align again.

Oh, and in anticipation, my DPE website remains active at http://SportPilotExaminer.US.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51020#p51020 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 09:03:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51020#p51020
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by rsteele]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51022#p51022
drseti wrote:Well, folks, I had hoped I was home free - but apparently, not quite there yet.

The last step in the DPE certification process is to have an FAA inspector observe me doing a practical exam.


Presumably, this is only for the ground portion of the exam? Do they use video or something in the plane. I'm not trying to be flip, I'm really curious how this is done.

Ron]]>
no_email@example.com (rsteele) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51022#p51022 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 10:54:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51022#p51022
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51023#p51023 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51023#p51023 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 11:34:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51023#p51023 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51026#p51026 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51026#p51026 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:19:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51026#p51026 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by comperini]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51027#p51027 no_email@example.com (comperini) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51027#p51027 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 13:19:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51027#p51027 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51036#p51036
comperini wrote:They observe the actual oral on the ground. In the air, the inspector becomes the "applicant" and checks the DPE that way

I guess they do the oral first, flight test with inspector as "applicant" next, inspector sign-off the new DPE, new DPE does flight test for actual "applicant."]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51036#p51036 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 14:22:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51036#p51036
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51037#p51037
If you get the impression that FAA is more interested in the following of bureaucratic procedures than they are in actual flying, you're probably right.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51037#p51037 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:01:18 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51037#p51037
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51038#p51038 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51038#p51038 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:04:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51038#p51038 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by comperini]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51041#p51041 no_email@example.com (comperini) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51041#p51041 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:52:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51041#p51041 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51042#p51042
comperini wrote:And you get to go through that whole evaluation process each year to maintain your DPE status.


The first year, yes. After that, they have the option of appointing you to a two-year term, and you only have to do all that half as often! :)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51042#p51042 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:56:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51042#p51042
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51061#p51061 no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51061#p51061 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:45:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51061#p51061 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51065#p51065
WDD wrote:is it ever stipulated that the candidate you're examining has to be a real student?


Unfortunately, yes. It's not in the FARs, but rather in an FAA Order. (Studying those is part of what my recent week in Oklahoma City was all about.)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51065#p51065 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:51:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51065#p51065
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51092#p51092
Sorry - thought I might have had a glimmer of hope there for you.....

If you're still stuck in a few months, I'll come over and be your Guinea pig. Don't worry, I wouldn't think of making the exam interesting, such as pretending to hear voices in the middle of the oral exam, having Dominos make a delivery 20 min into the test, etc.....]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51092#p51092 Tue, 01 May 2018 07:58:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51092#p51092
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51113#p51113 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51113#p51113 Tue, 01 May 2018 10:09:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51113#p51113 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51156#p51156 no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51156#p51156 Wed, 02 May 2018 08:05:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51156#p51156 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51159#p51159
WDD wrote:On a more serious note, I assume you can't be both the CFI and the examiner to the same person?


Covered back on page 6.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51159#p51159 Wed, 02 May 2018 09:52:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51159#p51159
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by comperini]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51171#p51171
drseti wrote:The first year, yes. After that, they have the option of appointing you to a two-year term, and you only have to do all that half as often! :)


But you still get evaluated every year. At least us AFS-610 appointees do.]]>
no_email@example.com (comperini) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51171#p51171 Wed, 02 May 2018 16:04:52 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51171#p51171
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51175#p51175
comperini wrote:But you still get evaluated every year. At least us AFS-610 appointees do.


Entirely correct, Bob (even under AFS-650). And, as to the previous comment: my FSDO informed me today that, under the new FAA Order 8000.95, appointments will remain at just one year, for all DPEs. :(

That's the bad news. But, stand by for the good news, pending later tonight.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51175#p51175 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:18:26 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51175#p51175
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51176#p51176
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no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51176#p51176 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:29:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51176#p51176
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51177#p51177
banks+shuch.gif

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no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51177#p51177 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:33:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51177#p51177
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51180#p51180 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51180#p51180 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:43:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51180#p51180 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by comperini]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51181#p51181
drseti wrote:
comperini wrote:But you still get evaluated every year. At least us AFS-610 appointees do.


Entirely correct, Bob (even under AFS-650). And, as to the previous comment: my FSDO informed me today that, under the new FAA Order 8000.95, appointments will remain at just one year, for all DPEs. :(


Interesting.. we are on two year cycles.. that doesn't mean much, except different paperwork, and the online course once every two years. I do need to fly with my POI every year though, and they do observe the oral. Being a 610 designee, I have no geographical limit as to where I can do tests. I don't need permission from a FSDO to operate in their kingdom. I assume you are restricted to your FSDOs area (unless permission is granted to operate outside of your area)?]]>
no_email@example.com (comperini) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51181#p51181 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:45:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51181#p51181
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51184#p51184
comperini wrote: I assume you are restricted to your FSDOs area (unless permission is granted to operate outside of your area)?


You assume correctly (although, given the Sport DPE shortage nation-wide, I don't think such permission is likely to be withheld, if someone out of the area requests me, and is willing to pay my travel costs).]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51184#p51184 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:51:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51184#p51184
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51187#p51187 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51187#p51187 Wed, 02 May 2018 18:03:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51187#p51187 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51193#p51193
3Dreaming wrote:Did your applicant decide they were ready, or did you find another guinea pig?


Neither, Tom. The FSDO inspector took pity on me, and very kindly appointed me, with the proviso that he would observe my first actual exam.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51193#p51193 Wed, 02 May 2018 19:15:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51193#p51193
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51246#p51246
Hambone wrote:Congrats, Paul!

As a DPE-SP, can you give the CFI-S checkride?


Much to my surprise, they did include CFI-S on the Certificate of Authority I received yesterday - but only for renewals, reinstatements, and category/class add-ons. I expect they'll add initial CFI-S exam privileges at my first DPE renewal next year.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51246#p51246 Thu, 03 May 2018 13:26:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51246#p51246
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51257#p51257
drseti wrote:
Hambone wrote:Congrats, Paul!

As a DPE-SP, can you give the CFI-S checkride?


Much to my surprise, they did include CFI-S on the Certificate of Authority I received yesterday - but only for renewals, reinstatements, and category/class add-ons. I expect they'll add initial CFI-S exam privileges at my first DPE renewal next year.


According to the specialty examiner branch your DPE would not be valid for category/class add-ons. You would be acting solely as an instructor in that capacity.

This came up when I had a question about doing an add-on for someone who didn't have a current flight review.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51257#p51257 Thu, 03 May 2018 20:14:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51257#p51257
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport NPRM :: Reply by Helen]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51011#p51011 no_email@example.com (Helen) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51011#p51011 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:41:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51011#p51011 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport NPRM :: Reply by hook_dupin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51224#p51224
Helen wrote:The FAA gave an update on this at SNF. The part 61 rewrite is back on track and expected out within a year. It is expected to include a fix to the subpart K credit problem.


I was told "8-10 weeks" from a source at a large Florida/Arizona aviation college. Given recent events, they aren't too excited about having their commercial students get 10 hours in Arrows. The language to have Technologically Advanced Aircraft time substitute for complex time for a commercial single engine rating was of importance to them.]]>
no_email@example.com (hook_dupin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51224#p51224 Thu, 03 May 2018 10:28:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51224#p51224
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport NPRM :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51234#p51234
hook_dupin wrote:
Helen wrote:The FAA gave an update on this at SNF. The part 61 rewrite is back on track and expected out within a year. It is expected to include a fix to the subpart K credit problem.


I was told "8-10 weeks" from a source at a large Florida/Arizona aviation college. Given recent events, they aren't too excited about having their commercial students get 10 hours in Arrows. The language to have Technologically Advanced Aircraft time substitute for complex time for a commercial single engine rating was of importance to them.


Especially now since you are not required to do part of your checkride in a complex aircraft.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51234#p51234 Thu, 03 May 2018 12:00:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51234#p51234
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport NPRM :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51242#p51242 no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51242#p51242 Thu, 03 May 2018 13:15:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51242#p51242 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport NPRM :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51244#p51244 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51244#p51244 Thu, 03 May 2018 13:19:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51244#p51244 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport NPRM :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51247#p51247
That should be good news for a CFI-S without a medical!]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51247#p51247 Thu, 03 May 2018 14:52:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51247#p51247
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport NPRM :: Reply by Helen]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51437#p51437 no_email@example.com (Helen) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51437#p51437 Tue, 08 May 2018 19:41:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4048&p=51437#p51437 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Author Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51368#p51368
Which "system" are you using, and why? I envision primary teaching older students, so understanding and retention of knowledge may be a little more challenging.

Thanks!]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51368#p51368 Sun, 06 May 2018 13:47:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51368#p51368
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51369#p51369 Loved it.]]> no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51369#p51369 Sun, 06 May 2018 13:33:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51369#p51369 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51370#p51370
I'm interested in a more comprehensive training system right through to the license, rather than solely to pass the FAA exam.]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51370#p51370 Sun, 06 May 2018 13:42:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51370#p51370
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by chicagorandy]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51373#p51373 no_email@example.com (chicagorandy) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51373#p51373 Sun, 06 May 2018 14:03:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51373#p51373 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51374#p51374 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51374#p51374 Sun, 06 May 2018 14:33:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51374#p51374 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51375#p51375
But for a potential new student, I find the Gleim system, being primarily old-school book-based, to be dry and uninspiring.]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51375#p51375 Sun, 06 May 2018 14:35:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51375#p51375
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51376#p51376
Hambone wrote: for a potential new student, I find the Gleim system, being primarily old-school book-based, to be dry and uninspiring.


Yes, it's dry. It's also very complete and thorough. But, more important, most of my students are older, and from the textbook generation (as opposed to the MTV generation). This is how they were taught in high school and college. This is how they are accustomed to studying - no glitz, just content. My supplemental videos and worksheets spice things up enough to keep my students from getting bored.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51376#p51376 Sun, 06 May 2018 14:46:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51376#p51376
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Type47]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51378#p51378
Hambone wrote:Thanks!

I'm interested in a more comprehensive training system right through to the license, rather than solely to pass the FAA exam.


That is exactly what this is.]]>
no_email@example.com (Type47) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51378#p51378 Sun, 06 May 2018 15:16:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51378#p51378
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51380#p51380
I didn't buy the "kit" just the Gleim sport pilot faa knowledge test, sport pilot maneuvers and the Gleim FAR/AIM. I already had a logbook and didn't need the bag or that ancient E6B that no one uses anymore. :mrgreen:

A bonus is the "online test prep" as you can study and take mock tests online. It has every FAA question and will randomly generate sample tests for the student. For a new student starting out I think the Gleim kit is also the best study material going.

I was also biased towards Gleim since they were in the same city, they are based in Gainesville, Florida. I actually drove over to their offices and picked up my books. They were about 10 minutes from my house.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51380#p51380 Sun, 06 May 2018 16:21:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51380#p51380
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51381#p51381
I'll stick with Gleim, and supplement with videos.

I'm also intending on incorporating the Gleim X-Plane Flight Training Course https://www.gleimaviation.com/xplane/ into the Gleim syllabus. To that end, I've put together a 3-screen simulator in my office. Although simulation is obviously more beneficial for instrument/airline/military etc training, I think it has utility in sport pilot training, too. WIth a bit of parameter tweaking, I have managed to get the supplied C172 to mimic the performance and handling of my CT.

Would be interested to hear if others using simulation to teach sport flying!]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51381#p51381 Sun, 06 May 2018 16:32:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51381#p51381
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51385#p51385
Hambone wrote:Would be interested to hear if others using simulation to teach sport flying!


I use the Redbird Jay simulator. It runs the Lockheed Prepar3d software (a bit more sophisticated than either X-plane or MS FlightSim), but is still compatible with the aftermarket Flight Sim models of different aircraft. I bought an Evektor SportStar model for about twelve bucks online, and it replicates my trainer's characteristics pretty well. The textbook "Microsoft Flight Simulator X for Pilots: Real World Training", by Jeff Van West and Kevin Lane-Cummings, contains scenarios that can be loaded into the Jay, and will run under Prepar3d.

Here's a link to my simulation page for further info:

http://avsport.org/simulate]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51385#p51385 Sun, 06 May 2018 16:59:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51385#p51385
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51394#p51394
Thanks!]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51394#p51394 Sun, 06 May 2018 18:37:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51394#p51394
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Izzy]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51502#p51502
Good luck!

Izzy]]>
no_email@example.com (Izzy) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51502#p51502 Thu, 10 May 2018 16:57:10 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51502#p51502
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by HAPPYDAN]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51520#p51520
Izzy wrote:I used the Sporty's online course and did just fine the test. But, I have also heard many pilots provide positive feedback for the Gleim pilot training program as well.

Good luck!

Izzy

+1 for the online Sporty's course. For one price, you get comprehensive training for Sport, Recreation, and Private. The lessons are updated periodically, so once you buy in it's good for a lifetime. You can take as many practice tests as you like, and you get a printed endorsement for the knowledge test.]]>
no_email@example.com (HAPPYDAN) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51520#p51520 Fri, 11 May 2018 23:31:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51520#p51520
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Hambone]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51521#p51521
I especially like the video tutorials.]]>
no_email@example.com (Hambone) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51521#p51521 Sat, 12 May 2018 00:35:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51521#p51521
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51539#p51539 I am making good use of the log book and bag.

While a lot was great about the Gleim book, some of it is outdated. Why teach the EB6 wheel computer? Nothing about the current apps. Nothing about glass instruments. A lot more good information than bad mind you, just needs updated. I'd still recommend it for students.

The book learning combined with the Gleim practice tests and some YouTube tutorials are a great combination.

I wonder about learning everything from video. Reading and doing exercises I think makes things stick a lot more because of the thinking process you have to go through vs more passive video.]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51539#p51539 Mon, 14 May 2018 08:15:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51539#p51539
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51540#p51540
WDD wrote:I used the Gleim book. I bought the kit because it was a great price, but thought the hat that was included a bit odd. Who would wear it? :?: I am making good use of the log book and bag.

While a lot was great about the Gleim book, some of it is outdated. Why teach the EB6 wheel computer? Nothing about the current apps. Nothing about glass instruments. A lot more good information than bad mind you, just needs updated. I'd still recommend it for students.

The book learning combined with the Gleim practice tests and some YouTube tutorials are a great combination.

I wonder about learning everything from video. Reading and doing exercises I think makes things stick a lot more because of the thinking process you have to go through vs more passive video.


Completely agree on the EB6 but ultimately, a lot of DPEs still consider EB6 tool ( as opposed to principles ) knowledge to be essential.
It doesn't take that much time to master it even though it seems silly - I never had to use that knowledge on any of my tests anyway - on the written exam, one can easily answer fuel/distance related questions just by approximating and on the practical test my DPE just told me " fly your cross-country as you would normally be flying without me being here " so I did :-) ...]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51540#p51540 Mon, 14 May 2018 08:40:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51540#p51540
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51543#p51543
WDD wrote: thought the hat that was included a bit odd. Who would wear it?


Ever fly a low-wing LSA in the summertime under a bubble canopy?]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51543#p51543 Mon, 14 May 2018 08:58:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51543#p51543
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by WDD]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51549#p51549
drseti wrote:
WDD wrote: thought the hat that was included a bit odd. Who would wear it?


Ever fly a low-wing LSA in the summertime under a bubble canopy?


Not opposed to wearing a hat - just a black hat with "GLEIM" on the front.]]>
no_email@example.com (WDD) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51549#p51549 Tue, 15 May 2018 07:51:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51549#p51549
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51551#p51551 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51551#p51551 Tue, 15 May 2018 08:03:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51551#p51551 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51554#p51554
WDD wrote:I used the Gleim book. I bought the kit because it was a great price, but thought the hat that was included a bit odd. Who would wear it? :?: I am making good use of the log book and bag.

While a lot was great about the Gleim book, some of it is outdated. Why teach the EB6 wheel computer? Nothing about the current apps. Nothing about glass instruments. A lot more good information than bad mind you, just needs updated. I'd still recommend it for students.

The book learning combined with the Gleim practice tests and some YouTube tutorials are a great combination.

I wonder about learning everything from video. Reading and doing exercises I think makes things stick a lot more because of the thinking process you have to go through vs more passive video.


The Gleim books do have some limited info on "glass instruments". I haven't checked the latest revision but in mine in the first few pages of the "Sport Pilot Maneuvers" book they show a legacy Dynon D-100 and talk about EFIS and what information is shown on the EFIS. It also shows a panel out of what looks like a CT. Could there be more, of course, but there is "some" and hopefully more in the future.

It really is a great system for sport pilots in my opinion. Short, sweet and to the point to get you past the exam. You can easily learn more as you go and there's a lot more to read and be knowledgeable on but the course works as designed.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51554#p51554 Tue, 15 May 2018 10:44:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51554#p51554
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51556#p51556
In other words switching to a glass panel is rather easy if you just consider basics - it gets little more complicated when you throw in moving maps , navigation but still , very intuitive- imho doesn’t need special mention in prep materials - just use the manual.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51556#p51556 Tue, 15 May 2018 11:16:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51556#p51556
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51557#p51557
http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5506222259001]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51557#p51557 Tue, 15 May 2018 11:24:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51557#p51557
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Best Sport Pilot "system" for the new student? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51558#p51558
Warmi wrote:Most glass panels replicate analog instruments functionality using slightly different presentation but remain very much readable to anyone who is familiar with analog gauges. To me it seems it is more matter of preference rather than folks not understanding where to find airspeed or altimeter on their new shiny EFIS.

In other words switching to a glass panel is rather easy if you just consider basics - it gets little more complicated when you throw in moving maps , navigation but still , very intuitive- imho doesn’t need special mention in prep materials - just use the manual.

I agree.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51558#p51558 Tue, 15 May 2018 11:41:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5079&p=51558#p51558
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Author ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51137#p51137
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-66B.pdf]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51137#p51137 Tue, 01 May 2018 16:07:11 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51137#p51137
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51138#p51138 no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51138#p51138 Tue, 01 May 2018 17:01:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51138#p51138 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by rcpilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51167#p51167 ]]> no_email@example.com (rcpilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51167#p51167 Wed, 02 May 2018 14:51:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51167#p51167 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51169#p51169
rcpilot wrote:After reading this, looks like we're all doing things wrong at my home base. We pretty much all use plane make and color. My instructor use to say "red and white light sport" and I've since gone to "red and white experimental". Of course if we all used our call signs the guy at the unicom desk would stop periodically asking for them. :D


That must be a local difference, almost nobody does that around here, it's always make (or "experimental") and N-number. It wouldn't work here well anyway, where we have three flight schools regularly using the airport and all fly white Diamonds. "White Diamond? Which of the three in the pattern?!?" :lol:

I can see in a more rural area (we are fairly close to the ATL class B) that might work perfectly well. And even here it would "mostly" not be confusing.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51169#p51169 Wed, 02 May 2018 15:41:35 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51169#p51169
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51182#p51182 no useful information whatever! Another plane in the pattern probably can't read your N number (nor should the pilot even try). You want them to identify you. "White low wing," "green high wing," "red light sport," "blue biplane," and "yellow cub" (aren''t they all yellow?) make it much easier for someone to know who they're following or looking for.]]> no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51182#p51182 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:48:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51182#p51182 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51183#p51183 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51183#p51183 Wed, 02 May 2018 17:50:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51183#p51183 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51199#p51199
drseti wrote:Remember that advisory circulars are just that (advisory, not regulatory). That said, I have to respectfully disagree with this one. Transmitting your registration number at an airport that lacks an ATC presence provides other pilots with [b]no useful information whatever!


Well...

1) Local pilots can discern who you are if they’re familiar with your plane.

2) It will let them know there are two [i]different white CT’s inbound, let’s say.

3) I thought the FCC required all radio transmissions include the identity of the transmitter. Not sure “yellow cub” meets that requirement.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51199#p51199 Wed, 02 May 2018 20:37:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51199#p51199
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51201#p51201 (3) is true if you are an FCC licensee. Since aircraft station licenses and operator permits haven't been required in the US since the Reagan administration, I doubt that's incumbent upon airmen (or enforceable).]]> no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51201#p51201 Wed, 02 May 2018 20:50:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51201#p51201 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51205#p51205 no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51205#p51205 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:25:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51205#p51205 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51206#p51206
drseti wrote:Eddie,
(3) is true if you are an FCC licensee. Since aircraft station licenses and operator permits haven't been required in the US since the Reagan administration, I doubt that's incumbent upon airmen (or enforceable).


Let me blame the Law of Primacy.

For newbies, back in the antediluvian era, dinosaurs needed Radio Station Licences and Restricted Radiotelephone Operator’s Permits to use the radios in their aircraft. The Radio Station License was, in fact, the second “R” in “ARROW”.

But I still thought the FCC frowned on transmissions without a station identifier. If that’s no longer the case, this old dog can reluctantly learn new tricks!

Edited to add: Look what I held onto!

Image

I think the post-deluvian dating is because the Bahamas required one - I don’t know if they still do.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51206#p51206 Wed, 02 May 2018 21:26:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51206#p51206
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51215#p51215 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51215#p51215 Wed, 02 May 2018 23:40:59 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51215#p51215 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51315#p51315 no_email@example.com (foresterpoole) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51315#p51315 Fri, 04 May 2018 18:48:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51315#p51315 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51319#p51319 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51319#p51319 Fri, 04 May 2018 21:24:09 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51319#p51319 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51320#p51320 The other instructor always followed FAA recommended style of +500 feet tear drop entry taking it a few miles past downwind.
I personall prefer the tear drop entry.]]>
no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51320#p51320 Fri, 04 May 2018 22:32:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51320#p51320
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51321#p51321
You would fly TPA +500 when you are crossing over the field to observe what is going on below or if you are going to do the teardrop entry to the downwind.

If you are flying in from the NON pattern side and want to turn on to the downwind leg then you come over midfield at TPA and yield to any preferred 45 degree entry or downwind traffic.

That’s the way I read it.

I would never simply cross over an airport at pattern altitude for any reason.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51321#p51321 Fri, 04 May 2018 23:48:02 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51321#p51321
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: NEW - Non Towered Airport FAA Recommended Traffic Pattern Advisory 3/13/2018 :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51356#p51356
If I am approaching from the "wrong side" of the airport, I cross over at pattern altitude at or a little beyond the departure end of the runway... I announce it as crosswind and turn downwind from there. Few aircraft can reach pattern altitude by the end of the runway, but I will defiantly scrutinize that area while approaching and crossing :wink:

I normally fly low wing and midfield crossing and turning into downwind just strikes me as wrong.]]>
no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51356#p51356 Sun, 06 May 2018 08:59:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5075&p=51356#p51356
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by 914Driver]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51268#p51268
I fly a glider. I'm in the pattern when a guy calls 10 mile final. I advise him I am in the pattern, however if he extends a bit I will cross his path and land in the grass to the right of the runway, leaving the runway for him. He mumbles some profanity about gliders and peels off to the south.

Sorry kids, gravity says I'm landing, my options are limited.]]>
no_email@example.com (914Driver) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51268#p51268 Fri, 04 May 2018 07:44:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51268#p51268
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51272#p51272 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51272#p51272 Fri, 04 May 2018 08:36:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51272#p51272 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by 914Driver]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51278#p51278 no_email@example.com (914Driver) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51278#p51278 Fri, 04 May 2018 10:09:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51278#p51278 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51281#p51281
drseti wrote:Gliders have right-of-way over power planes. All.The.Time.


Some of the glider pilots around here use this rule to bully us powered aircraft drivers and do whatever they please. I understand the need for the rule, but I'd prefer folks use it responsibly and not as a blanket excuse for rudeness...]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51281#p51281 Fri, 04 May 2018 10:29:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51281#p51281
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51284#p51284
MrMorden wrote:
drseti wrote:Gliders have right-of-way over power planes. All.The.Time.


Some of the glider pilots around here use this rule to bully us powered aircraft drivers and do whatever they please. I understand the need for the rule, but I'd prefer folks use it responsibly and not as a blanket excuse for rudeness...


Andy, I am not sure how they do things down there, but I have been hanging around at our local glider club the past year it is certainly not the case around here. I have been flying a glider some, and I can tell you there are times that you can get caught when the lift goes away and not be able to fly a "normal" traffic pattern.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51284#p51284 Fri, 04 May 2018 10:53:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51284#p51284
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51287#p51287
3Dreaming wrote:Andy, I am not sure how they do things down there, but I have been hanging around at our local glider club the past year it is certainly not the case around here. I have been flying a glider some, and I can tell you there are times that you can get caught when the lift goes away and not be able to fly a "normal" traffic pattern.


Oh sure, I don't have a problem with a glider saying he has to expedite a landing and land in front of me or make me change plans. That's understandable. But when the gliders won't let me land runway 3 because they are landing runway 21 (in spite of wind), and then I switch to 21 and they tell me I can't land there either because they are about to take off from 3 and I need to circle a bit, it's pretty frustrating. I mean come on guys, you can't have the ENTIRE airport for your glider ops. No apologies or attempt to expedite, just "we're taking off on one end and landing at the other, we're gliders and you have to get out of the way".]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51287#p51287 Fri, 04 May 2018 11:28:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51287#p51287
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51292#p51292
MrMorden wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:Andy, I am not sure how they do things down there, but I have been hanging around at our local glider club the past year it is certainly not the case around here. I have been flying a glider some, and I can tell you there are times that you can get caught when the lift goes away and not be able to fly a "normal" traffic pattern.


Oh sure, I don't have a problem with a glider saying he has to expedite a landing and land in front of me or make me change plans. That's understandable. But when the gliders won't let me land runway 3 because they are landing runway 21 (in spite of wind), and then I switch to 21 and they tell me I can't land there either because they are about to take off from 3 and I need to circle a bit, it's pretty frustrating. I mean come on guys, you can't have the ENTIRE airport for your glider ops. No apologies or attempt to expedite, just "we're taking off on one end and landing at the other, we're gliders and you have to get out of the way".


The regulations are clear that the landing glider has the right of way. It is also clear that you should have the right of way over aircraft, (the glider), sitting on the surface. Maybe a gentle reminder that their sitting on the runway causing you to take evasive action for landing could possibly be considered a runway incursion.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51292#p51292 Fri, 04 May 2018 12:46:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51292#p51292
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51298#p51298
An aircraft declaring an emergency always has right-of-way over everybody else.

In flight, the least maneuverable category and class has right-of-way.

When multiple aircraft are landing, that applies. If equally maneuverable, the aircraft at the lower altitude has right-of-way.

Aircraft taking off must always yield to landing aircraft, with the exception of seaplanes, where the aircraft taking off has priority (because you can't stans on the brakes and sit at the hold-short line when you're on floats).]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51298#p51298 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:12:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51298#p51298
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by 914Driver]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51353#p51353 I still disagree with the straight in landings ....

Dan]]>
no_email@example.com (914Driver) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51353#p51353 Sun, 06 May 2018 08:10:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51353#p51353
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51360#p51360
914Driver wrote:Thankfully I've never witnessed the rudeness cited by 3Dreaming, hopefully it was isolated PMS and not a mindset.
I still disagree with the straight in landings ....

Dan


I didn't cite any rudeness, in fact just the opposite.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51360#p51360 Sun, 06 May 2018 10:04:58 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51360#p51360
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by 914Driver]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51399#p51399 no_email@example.com (914Driver) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51399#p51399 Mon, 07 May 2018 07:30:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51399#p51399 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 10 mile final.... :: Reply by Izzy]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51501#p51501
I have the following link in my resource file:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... 90-66B.pdf

Cheers!

Izzy]]>
no_email@example.com (Izzy) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51501#p51501 Thu, 10 May 2018 16:53:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5046&p=51501#p51501
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: New DPE :: Author drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51263#p51263
http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001

Now that I are one, I look forward to answering your questions on the Ask the DPE forum.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51263#p51263 Thu, 03 May 2018 22:13:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51263#p51263
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: New DPE :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51264#p51264
drseti wrote:As many of you are aware, I recently received my DPE designation for Sport Pilot and Sport CFI. since I was a CFI, I documented my journey in thus thread on the Instructor's Corner section of this site . . . .
Now that I are one, I look forward to answering your questions on the Ask the DPE forum.

A hardy congratulations to you Paul.
Thank you for your service to this forum and your valued contribution to the aviation community.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51264#p51264 Thu, 03 May 2018 23:56:04 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51264#p51264
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: New DPE :: Reply by RTK]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51265#p51265 no_email@example.com (RTK) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51265#p51265 Thu, 03 May 2018 23:29:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5078&p=51265#p51265 <![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51262#p51262
3Dreaming wrote:. So the answer to the question is, no there is no mileage requirement for the 2 hours cross country instruction needed for sport pilot.


Actually, Tom, there is. An FAR (can't cite it offhand, but I know where to look it up if anybody needs it) says that the SP qualifying XC training flights must include landings at another airport not less than 25 nm distant from the point of departure. And (this is often overlooked), XC flights cannot be logged unless the student has received the required pre-XC training.

I have an EAA webinar on the topic tentatively scheduled for 17 July 2018.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51262#p51262 Thu, 03 May 2018 22:07:27 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51262#p51262
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51282#p51282
drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:. So the answer to the question is, no there is no mileage requirement for the 2 hours cross country instruction needed for sport pilot.


Actually, Tom, there is. An FAR (can't cite it offhand, but I know where to look it up if anybody needs it) says that the SP qualifying XC training flights must include landings at another airport not less than 25 nm distant from the point of departure. And (this is often overlooked), XC flights cannot be logged unless the student has received the required pre-XC training.

I have an EAA webinar on the topic tentatively scheduled for 17 July 2018.


Paul, the CFR is 61.1 for defining cross country flights. You will notice that a few post up I stated that I would suggest complying with the 25 mile requirement just to be on the safe side. The regulations call for 2 hours of cross country flight training, the question then becomes can you do cross country flight training without actually making a cross country flight.

With private pilot students I have them plan a flight to another airport that is not quite 50 NM away. We depart as if making a cross country flight finding checkpoints, checking groundspeed, ect. As soon as the have the airport in sight I tell them the runway is closed, and have them divert to a VOR. Once the VOR is in sight I have them put on a view limiting device and walk them through returning to our airport under the hood. I consider this to be cross country flight training, even though it was not a cross country flight. There are places in the regulations where they do specify that the training must include a cross country flight, and not just training.

Just because this is my opinion doesn't mean I have put it to the test. I always include enough training that includes stops at the appropriate distances to meat the requirements.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51282#p51282 Fri, 04 May 2018 10:31:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51282#p51282
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51283#p51283
3Dreaming wrote:Just because this is my opinion doesn't mean I have put it to the test. I always include enough training that includes stops at the appropriate distances to meet the requirements.


And that, sir, is what makes you a good instructor. :D]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51283#p51283 Fri, 04 May 2018 10:38:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51283#p51283
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51294#p51294
spaulus wrote:Plus I will get endorsed for 'Controlled' airspace training.
S.P.


Yes, but remember that the airspace endorsement, per FAR 61.325, requires 3 TOLs to a full stop, each involving a flight in the traffic pattern, and radio comm with the control tower.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51294#p51294 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:00:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51294#p51294
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by HAPPYDAN]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51297#p51297 no_email@example.com (HAPPYDAN) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51297#p51297 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:05:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51297#p51297 <![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51300#p51300
HAPPYDAN wrote:I think the minimum requirement could be satisfied as simply as 1. Take Off. 2. Fly to another airport 37.5 nm away. 3. Land, full stop. 4. Take Off. 5. Fly back to origin. 6. Land, full Stop. So if your LSA can average 100kts ground speed, you're in the air about 45 minutes, add 15 minutes for, taxi, ascent, descent, pattern and round up to 1 hour. I was told, and I still am not convinced, that the "2 hours of cross country flight training" MUST be conducted during flight. Heck, it took that long just to prepare that crazy flight log and weather briefing! Still, we did it. Fortunately, once underway, the flight log became advisory only, and navigator Garmin 300 did the job.


Your description of the flight is what is needed for the solo cross country. The 2 hours of training must be in the airplane for the purpose of flight. the time you spent on the ground is ground training no flight training. You are required to have both ground and flight training to get a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51300#p51300 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:30:39 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51300#p51300
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51302#p51302 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51302#p51302 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:34:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51302#p51302 <![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51303#p51303
3Dreaming wrote:
HAPPYDAN wrote:I think the minimum requirement could be satisfied as simply as 1. Take Off. 2. Fly to another airport 37.5 nm away. 3. Land, full stop. 4. Take Off. 5. Fly back to origin. 6. Land, full Stop. So if your LSA can average 100kts ground speed, you're in the air about 45 minutes, add 15 minutes for, taxi, ascent, descent, pattern and round up to 1 hour. I was told, and I still am not convinced, that the "2 hours of cross country flight training" MUST be conducted during flight. Heck, it took that long just to prepare that crazy flight log and weather briefing! Still, we did it. Fortunately, once underway, the flight log became advisory only, and navigator Garmin 300 did the job.


Your description of the flight is what is needed for the solo cross country. The 2 hours of training must be in the airplane for the purpose of flight. the time you spent on the ground is ground training no flight training. You are required to have both ground and flight training to get a pilot certificate other than a student pilot certificate.

Correct. There is no reason for confusion about this. The FAR's are clear in regards to "flight" training requirements. Don't go by "what your were told." Read the FAR's.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51303#p51303 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:35:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51303#p51303
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51307#p51307 ]]> no_email@example.com (Sling 2 Pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51307#p51307 Fri, 04 May 2018 16:00:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51307#p51307 <![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51309#p51309
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:When I did my PPL cross country’s, I landed and had to have my log signed. Usually by a line guy or someone at the FBO. No signature, it didn’t happen. :roll:


There is no requirement to have your logbook signed. It was just a means to let your instructor know you didn't just go out and fly around in circles instead of doing the cross country. There was an instructor at another airport who would have the students come in and ask the name of our dog.
Now days I can look at the track on the GPS, or I have them snap a picture of the airport from the ground with their cell phone.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51309#p51309 Fri, 04 May 2018 16:06:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51309#p51309
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51352#p51352
3Dreaming wrote:
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:When I did my PPL cross country’s, I landed and had to have my log signed. Usually by a line guy or someone at the FBO. No signature, it didn’t happen. :roll:


There is no requirement to have your logbook signed. It was just a means to let your instructor know you didn't just go out and fly around in circles instead of doing the cross country. There was an instructor at another airport who would have the students come in and ask the name of our dog.
Now days I can look at the track on the GPS, or I have them snap a picture of the airport from the ground with their cell phone.


You throw the keys to a $100,000+ airplane to a student so he can fly away by himself and yet don't trust them to tell you the truth about where they landed???

I have NEVER told my students to get a signature to prove they were there and to have any idiot who asks them for proof to call me!]]>
no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51352#p51352 Sun, 06 May 2018 07:48:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51352#p51352
<![CDATA[Ask The Examiner :: Re: Dual xcountry 2 hour requirement, how far ? :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51354#p51354
I may have mentioned it before, but I happened to be at the FBO when a foreign student returned from his long solo cross country. And I watch him taxi in and he and his passenger deplane.

I was not happy, in spite of his protestation that his passenger was another student (or new private pilot - I don’t recall which) who didn’t do anything and was just an observer. Obviously unclear of the meaning of the word “solo”.

Of course, he had to make a second, real solo cross country. Reflecting back on it now, I wonder if stronger action on my part may have been warranted.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51354#p51354 Sun, 06 May 2018 08:18:44 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4728&p=51354#p51354
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Digital vs. Analog tach :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=50995#p50995
We ran a test today. I would run up the engine to a given indicated RPM, and my mechanic friend would "shoot" the prop with his handheld optical tach.

Results, after applying the gearbox reduction factor:

Image

Pretty darn close - or at least close enough for government work!

As an aside, we had one prior member insist his brakes wore out so fast because of the high idle rpm on a ROTAX necessitating more brake usage. This points out that even at a relatively high idle of 2,000 rpm, the prop is only turning around 800 rpm, not far off from the typical Continental or Lycoming.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=50995#p50995 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 20:02:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=50995#p50995
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Digital vs. Analog tach :: Reply by proemer]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=50997#p50997
Pete]]>
no_email@example.com (proemer) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=50997#p50997 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 09:45:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=50997#p50997
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Digital vs. Analog tach :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=51045#p51045 no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=51045#p51045 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:33:49 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5070&p=51045#p51045 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Entries to propeller logbook :: Author FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51005#p51005
When you do an Annual Condition Inspection, which includes some inspections involving your propeller, do you make a separate entry into your propeller logbook?]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51005#p51005 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 08:22:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51005#p51005
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51006#p51006 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51006#p51006 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 10:13:36 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51006#p51006 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51007#p51007 no_email@example.com (Sling 2 Pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51007#p51007 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 12:49:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51007#p51007 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51008#p51008
The fact that I check the prop annually is included in the Annual Condition Inspection checklist, which is filed, and logged in the Airframe logbook.

Image

The only advantage I can see to a separate entry in the propeller logbook would be if the propeller was ever sold - then the logbook would provide all the requisite inspections over the years in one place.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51008#p51008 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:10:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51008#p51008
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51017#p51017 no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51017#p51017 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:03:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51017#p51017 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51018#p51018 This question is touched upon in my EAA Webinar "LSA Documentation : what's in your logbooks?" Online at:
http://avsport.org/webinars/videos/LSA_Documentation.mp4]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51018#p51018 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 08:52:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51018#p51018
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51070#p51070
Image

The only entries are the ones for the installation, one for when I had the blades worked on by Warp Drive and I changed the pitch, and one annual condition inspection I did in 2013. Not sure what motivated me to do one that year and not others.

Again, I have all the records that the inspections were done. It just seems like a good idea to consolidate the inspections and/or repairs in one place.

At the very least I'm going to start doing it going forward. I may go back and make entries for at least 2014-2017]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51070#p51070 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:02:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51070#p51070
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by Warmi]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51072#p51072 no_email@example.com (Warmi) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51072#p51072 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:08:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51072#p51072 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51135#p51135
I recently was given a used Woodcomp 3 bladed prop with only 113 hours on it and it also came with it's own logbook. It's my spare/backup. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51135#p51135 Tue, 01 May 2018 15:26:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51135#p51135
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51139#p51139
ShawnM wrote:I'm rather anal and detailed when it comes to logbooks.


"Rather anal" is a synonym for "safe pilot".]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51139#p51139 Tue, 01 May 2018 17:36:33 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51139#p51139
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51140#p51140
My first two Annuals, in 2008 and 2009, were done at Lockwood. Neither time did they make an entry into my propeller log.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51140#p51140 Tue, 01 May 2018 17:38:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51140#p51140
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51141#p51141
drseti wrote:
ShawnM wrote:I'm rather anal and detailed when it comes to logbooks.


"Rather anal" is a synonym for "safe pilot".


LMAO, thanks for that one Paul. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51141#p51141 Tue, 01 May 2018 18:40:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51141#p51141
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51145#p51145
FastEddieB wrote:One other thing occurred to me...

My first two Annuals, in 2008 and 2009, were done at Lockwood. Neither time did they make an entry into my propeller log.


Nor were they required to. Your aircraft is required to have a condition inspection. The engine and propeller are parts of the airplane. For the condition inspection there is no legal requirement to make an entry anyplace other than the airframe logbook.

That being said there is nothing wrong with recording the inspections in the engine or propeller logbooks. My normal entry for the engine log is something like this, "This engine has been inspected per the Rotax 100hr/annual inspection checklist as part of the aircraft condition inspection.", then add a list of maintenance that was performed. My propeller entry would be something like, " Inspected the propeller as part of the aircraft condition inspection.", If any maintenance task were required to perform the inspection I will list them as well. Some aircraft I work on that are not LSA require removal of the propeller to perform the inspection. I document the removal, re-installation, torqueing, ect..]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51145#p51145 Tue, 01 May 2018 19:55:37 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51145#p51145
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51146#p51146
3Dreaming wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:One other thing occurred to me...

My first two Annuals, in 2008 and 2009, were done at Lockwood. Neither time did they make an entry into my propeller log.


Nor were they required to. Your aircraft is required to have a condition inspection. The engine and propeller are parts of the airplane. For the condition inspection there is no legal requirement to make an entry anyplace other than the airframe logbook.


I understand all that.

My original query was more wondering how commonplace the practice was. Still don’t know, other than some do, some don’t.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51146#p51146 Tue, 01 May 2018 20:11:13 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51146#p51146
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51149#p51149
FastEddieB wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:One other thing occurred to me...

My first two Annuals, in 2008 and 2009, were done at Lockwood. Neither time did they make an entry into my propeller log.


Nor were they required to. Your aircraft is required to have a condition inspection. The engine and propeller are parts of the airplane. For the condition inspection there is no legal requirement to make an entry anyplace other than the airframe logbook.


I understand all that.

My original query was more wondering how commonplace the practice was. Still don’t know, other than some do, some don’t.


I think it is more likely that they don'tknow it is not required, but most do it anyway. It is not required for standard category either, but I don't recall ever seeing a set of logbooks that didn't have an entry in all three.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51149#p51149 Tue, 01 May 2018 21:22:12 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51149#p51149
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51160#p51160 no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51160#p51160 Wed, 02 May 2018 10:43:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51160#p51160 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Entries to propeller logbook :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51163#p51163
Also from a regulatory standpoint you don't even need to keep all of the old condition inspection entries. All the regulations require is that you keep it for 1 year or until the inspection is repeated. There are some records that are required to be kept and transferred with the aircraft when it is sold to someone else, such as total time on the airframe, engine, propeller, ect.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51163#p51163 Wed, 02 May 2018 11:30:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5071&p=51163#p51163
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Rotax Service and Maintenance Courses :: Reply by BRCC]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=50977#p50977 ]]> no_email@example.com (BRCC) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=50977#p50977 Thu, 26 Apr 2018 16:47:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=50977#p50977 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Rotax Service and Maintenance Courses :: Reply by BRCC]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51040#p51040
BRCC wrote:Looks like I'll have to amend the deadline and move it up to the 2nd of May, vice the 4th. That gives everyone three days to wear their significant other down to see the benefits of taking this course! :mrgreen:


I forgot to mention that you can call 540-453-2215 and sign up for the classes, vice going through the college enrollment system.]]>
no_email@example.com (BRCC) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51040#p51040 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:51:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51040#p51040
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Rotax Service and Maintenance Courses :: Reply by BRCC]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51165#p51165
BRCC wrote:
BRCC wrote:Looks like I'll have to amend the deadline and move it up to the 2nd of May, vice the 4th. That gives everyone three days to wear their significant other down to see the benefits of taking this course! :mrgreen:


I forgot to mention that you can call 540-453-2215 and sign up for the classes, vice going through the college enrollment system.


For anyone who signed up for the course(s) online, PLEASE call 540-453-2215 to confirm enrollment.]]>
no_email@example.com (BRCC) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51165#p51165 Wed, 02 May 2018 13:43:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51165#p51165
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Rotax Service and Maintenance Courses :: Reply by BRCC]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51269#p51269

There are still seats available, so if you find yourself with the extra time and money to attend we'd be thrilled to see you!]]>
no_email@example.com (BRCC) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51269#p51269 Fri, 04 May 2018 07:46:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4731&p=51269#p51269
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50983#p50983

I didn't know the guy but do know the author who tells of a solder on point in VN. He heard a rustle in the bushes and it was indeed a tiger!
It lunged, clamped down on his head and commenced to drag him off. He managed a long burst and the tiger let him go...

How many have a tale like that to tell :wink:]]>
no_email@example.com (Jim Hardin) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50983#p50983 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 16:24:31 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50983#p50983
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50988#p50988
FastEddieB wrote:Or...get a bigger hammer! 8)


Is this what you had in mind, Eddie?

banjo_mute.jpg

Attachments



banjo_mute.jpg (51.34 KiB)


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no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50988#p50988 Fri, 27 Apr 2018 17:08:17 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50988#p50988
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50998#p50998
Fuel pressures are definitely higher throughout. At the lower left, you can see it just touching the top of the old green, 6 psi, at what might be a normal cruise altitude and power setting.

Image

Bear in mind, more is not necessarily better. Same carbs on a motorcycle get enough fuel from just gravity feed, and too much can overpower the needle and seat. But even the new limit of 7.2 psi is not a whole lot of pressure.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50998#p50998 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 16:03:57 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50998#p50998
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50999#p50999 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50999#p50999 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 17:24:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=50999#p50999 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51000#p51000
3Dreaming wrote:I had one airplane that the new fuel pump was to much for the carb. It would overpower the needle at idle and the engine would run rough. After trying a few things myself I removed the carb and sent it to Leading Edge Airfoils and they worked some magic on it and the problem went away.

Interesting.

So, in that case the extra pressure just uncovered an existing issue.

Otherwise, it seems it would be trivial to install a metered orifice at the pump’s output to slightly lower the pressure.

As an aside, BMW airheads were/are notorious for carb float bowls overflowing due to needle/seat problems, even with just gravity feed. Has led to a lot of gas-soaked boots over the years!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51000#p51000 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 17:41:28 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51000#p51000
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51001#p51001
FastEddieB wrote:As an aside, BMW airheads were/are notorious for carb float bowls overflowing due to needle/seat problems, even with just gravity feed. Has led to a lot of gas-soaked boots over the years!


As an aside to your aside, those BMW airheads used the same Bing 64 carbs we all know and love. (The only difference is, when mine leak they don't soak my boots.)]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51001#p51001 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 20:56:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51001#p51001
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51003#p51003
drseti wrote:As an aside to your aside, those BMW airheads used the same Bing 64 carbs we all know and love. (The only difference is, when mine leak they don't soak my boots.)


As an aside to your aside of my aside...

...I think I’ve posted this before, but here I am at a BMW Rally in Missoula, MT in the 1990’s:

Image

I was replacing my BING floats and float bowls with a new style, recently designed for the BINGs on ROTAX airplane engines. The old style had the two floats connected to each other, which I guess might have been a problem with an airplane in uncoordinated flight. And in a case of positive transfer, the new style also worked better when retrofitted to older airheads.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51003#p51003 Sat, 28 Apr 2018 21:35:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51003#p51003
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51010#p51010
I was surprised to see this before I began my runup:

Image

Ran normally, but remained high in the climb:

Image

In cruise is gradually dropped back to 6 psi indicated:

Image

On the flight back home, this in the climb:

Image

Went up a bit in cruise.

I'm wondering, why all the variability? It was a bit warmer in the afternoon, but not by all that much. I remember some complaining about high pressure alarms from their Dynons or whatever with the new pumps, and wonder how that was handled.

Another curiosity - before starting, the boost pump used to slowly bring up the fuel pressure until it barely touched the green. Now it goes well into the green. Which is fine, but I'm trying to visualize how change in the engine-driven fuel pump could affect the boost pump pressure before engine start.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51010#p51010 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:22:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51010#p51010
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by dstclair]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51012#p51012 viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4915.

I had a chance to prove my theory. Replaced my 40106 (up to 7psi) with a used 40105 and my fuel pressure behavior went back to unstable. With the 40106 I have steady in the green pressure, whether the pump is on or off. I do have steady pressure with the used 40105 'on' but when it's off I'll drift into the low yellow, then creep back into the low green.

The 40106 is around $41 at aircraft spruce so you might want to give it a try.]]>
no_email@example.com (dstclair) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51012#p51012 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 18:11:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51012#p51012
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51016#p51016 inside the cowling). Should cure instability.]]> no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51016#p51016 Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:30:14 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51016#p51016 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51059#p51059
drseti wrote:Make sure the vent line for your new pump is in undisturbed air (preferably inside the cowling). Should cure instability.


I thought that vent line was just to vent fuel to a more benign spot if the pump failed in a specific way.

Do I have that wrong? Can positive or negative pressure to the hose make a difference?

In any case, I really want to plumb mine to here:

Image

That's my gascolator, and a bunch of engine drains leading to a funnel-type deal that has a hose leading to the belly.

But it was impossible for me to snake it by itself, so for now its just routed to the cowling:

Image

Remember, that's the back of the cowling. Next time I have help I'll go to more effort to reroute it where I want it.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51059#p51059 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:38:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51059#p51059
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51060#p51060 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51060#p51060 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:45:13 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51060#p51060 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51062#p51062
Flew up and back to the TN property.

Nothing was changed, and in essentially the same flight conditions as yesterday, instead of seeing the fuel pressure maxed out, I saw this:

Image

Good news is the pressure was somewhere in the green for all 1.5 hours. But in level flight, I could see 3 psi or 6 psi or somewhere in-between with no rhyme or reason.

Its not bouncing around - it just very gradually settles in at one spot or another.

Like I said, weird.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51062#p51062 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:46:15 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51062#p51062
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51063#p51063
drseti wrote:Given where you have it routed now, just try trimming 3 or 4 inches off the end, to make sure it's in a neutral pressure location inside the cowling - and then do a test flight.


I will try that.

(If it makes a difference, you can pay me later.)


Later sounds good. Maybe next eclipse?]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51063#p51063 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:48:47 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51063#p51063
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51074#p51074 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51074#p51074 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:10:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51074#p51074 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51076#p51076
FastEddieB wrote:Later sounds good. Maybe next eclipse?


No way, Eddie. You'll pay me during totality, so I can't Count de Monet!]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51076#p51076 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 21:16:23 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51076#p51076
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by proemer]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51161#p51161
Pete]]>
no_email@example.com (proemer) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51161#p51161 Wed, 02 May 2018 11:12:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51161#p51161
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51317#p51317
Good news, the pressure stayed in the green the whole time.

But weirdly, it still varies. In level flight it could start out just over 2 psi, then over time inch up to sit in the middle of the green, about 4 psi.

I find it hard to attribute that to dynamic affects on the vent hose, since the flight conditions did not change at all.

But, to keep Mr. Bernoulli at bay, I came up with this kluge:

Image

Just a larger diameter hose with small holes slipped over the vent line to serve as a "baffle", plus shortened the hose to be more out of the direct airflow.

I also cleaned and applied Stabilant-22 to the terminals of the fuel pressure sender, to be sure there was no issue there.

Will report results next time I fly.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51317#p51317 Fri, 04 May 2018 19:55:30 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51317#p51317
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: ROTAX 912 - New style fuel pump/fuel pressure question :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51326#p51326 no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51326#p51326 Sat, 05 May 2018 09:09:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5067&p=51326#p51326 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Author FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51258#p51258
Image

What’s involved in installing it? Is it just a matter of pulling out the little ball and inserting the mushroom instead? I vaguely recall someone mentioning a different spring, but I only see one listed.

I did a quick search for the ROTAX SB concerning it with no luck.

Anyone?]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51258#p51258 Thu, 03 May 2018 20:28:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51258#p51258
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51259#p51259 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51259#p51259 Thu, 03 May 2018 21:42:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51259#p51259 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51260#p51260
Eddie, when you open up the pressure relief valve assembly, be sure to perform an oil system pressure purge before starting the engine. There is a Service Instruction for that on rotax-owner.com.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51260#p51260 Thu, 03 May 2018 21:55:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51260#p51260
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51267#p51267
1) I’m about to have the 5-year rubber parts replacement done. Seemed like a good time to make the swap. The system obviously needs purging at that time regardless.

2) Or, with no oil pressure fluctuation problems in 11 years, I could just leave well enough alone and save at least $50 in additional parts. Doing the math, if I keep flying at roughly the same rate - 500+ hours in 11 years - I’ll be 90 (!) by the time I hit 1,500 hrs and it becomes an issue. If I’m even still flying then - I hope so - I can worry about it then.

But, “wisdom of the crowd” and all that, what would you do?]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51267#p51267 Fri, 04 May 2018 07:31:03 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51267#p51267
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51273#p51273
FastEddieB wrote:
if I keep flying at roughly the same rate - 500+ hours in 11 years - I’ll be 90 (!) by the time I hit 1,500 hrs and it becomes an issue.


From this, I infer yours is a 2007 engine. Thus, we've established that it's apparentry eligible for the upgrade (by crankcase s/n). So...

Rotax TBO involves two numbers, Hobbs (not tach!) hours and time in service. The latter is often overlooked. I believe yours is 12 years (you'll have to check the engine s/n against the list in the Service Bulletin to be sure). If so, you're now 1 year away from TBO, regardless of hours flown. Compliance with the SB brings your TBO up to 15 years (buying you only an extra 3).

Now, before you panic, TBO is not regulatory, merely advisory. And since yours is an Experimental, you can probably be justified (and safe) in ignoring the 12 year limit. So, if you choose to stop reading here, nobody's going to blame you.

Still with me? Then consider that I'm in a different situation. As a commercial operator, I'm subject to both scrutiny and legal liability. For me, the calendar limit is potentially serious. This is one of the reasons flight schools tend to turn over their fleets with some degree of regularity.

All of this was covered in my recent EAA Webinar "What TBO Really Means." For those who missed it, here's the link:

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5752102647001]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51273#p51273 Fri, 04 May 2018 08:39:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51273#p51273
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51274#p51274
When I did mine Lockwood had a "kit" for about $60 I think. I didn't have any oil pressure issues but wanted the extra TBO tacked on. Mine is also a 2007 engine. I figure it cost me about $0.12 for each hour added. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51274#p51274 Fri, 04 May 2018 08:46:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51274#p51274
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51275#p51275
This is back in FAA legal as we speak and has been for 4 months. I still may take 1.5 years for them to render a decision. This has been in legal twice now. This could stay on condition or it could change. Time will tell. This hinges on 1-2 words.

Rotax "Service Bulletins" that are labeled mandatory are also fast tracking through the system and these may be mandatory soon. These may be mandatory soon. This will be their 2-3 time through legal.]]>
no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51275#p51275 Fri, 04 May 2018 09:18:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51275#p51275
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51276#p51276
roger lee wrote:Rotax "Service Bulletins" that are labeled mandatory are also fast tracking through the system and these may be mandatory soon.


I don't understand why FAA Legal has to be involved in this one. If Rotax wants to force compliance, under present rules all they have to do is issue them as Safety Bulletins rather than Mandatory Service Bulletins. Those already have the same force of law as ADs.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51276#p51276 Fri, 04 May 2018 09:30:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51276#p51276
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51279#p51279
drseti wrote:
roger lee wrote:Rotax "Service Bulletins" that are labeled mandatory are also fast tracking through the system and these may be mandatory soon.


I don't understand why FAA Legal has to be involved in this one. If Rotax wants to force compliance, under present rules all they have to do is issue them as Safety Bulletins rather than Mandatory Service Bulletins. Those already have the same force of law as ADs.


Rotax can't force compliance. That would have to come from an airworthiness directive or safety directive from the aircraft manufacturer.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51279#p51279 Fri, 04 May 2018 10:10:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51279#p51279
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51280#p51280
3Dreaming wrote:
Rotax can't force compliance. That would have to come from an airworthiness directive or safety directive from the aircraft manufacturer.


That's my understanding as well. The engine is just like any other component or part; the component manufacturer can make recommendations, but only the *aircraft* manufacturer can make it regulatory by issuing a SB or AD.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51280#p51280 Fri, 04 May 2018 10:18:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51280#p51280
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51288#p51288
I think this shows the limitations of attempting to follow the “Most Conservative Action” rule.

On the one hand, The Most Conservative Action in my case is obviously to do nothing, along the lines of “If it ain’t broke...” or “Leave well enough alone”. Messing with it just provides an opportunity for a Maintenance Induced Failure, with no perceived immediate benefit.

On the other hand, The Most Conservative Action in my case is obviously to follow the manufacturer’s recommendation, and to makes sure my engine has the most up-to-date parts, which they hold to be an improvement over the ones currently installed.

I think my tendency to fall back on the first option was brought up in my recent fuel pump thread, where we learned the term “Status Quo Bias”.

I’ll probably go ahead with the second option, when the system is opened up anyway for the oil line change. That way I won’t have to worry about it when I’m 90(!).

To be clear, I would also need to order the spring and “plug screw”, items #3 and #5 respectively in the above diagram, right? What about the shim, #4?]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51288#p51288 Fri, 04 May 2018 11:38:34 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51288#p51288
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51289#p51289
FastEddieB wrote:Thanks for all the input.

I think this shows the limitations of attempting to follow the “Most Conservative Action” rule.

On the one hand, The Most Conservative Action in my case is obviously to do nothing, along the lines of “If it ain’t broke...” or “Leave well enough alone”. Messing with it just provides an opportunity for a Maintenance Induced Failure, with no perceived immediate benefit.

On the other hand, The Most Conservative Action in my case is obviously to follow the manufacturer’s recommendation, and to makes sure my engine has the most up-to-date parts, which they hold to be an improvement over the ones currently installed.

I think my tendency to fall back on the first option was brought up in my recent fuel pump thread, where we learned the term “Status Quo Bias”.

I’ll probably go ahead with the second option, when the system is opened up anyway for the oil line change. That way I won’t have to worry about it when I’m 90(!).

To be clear, I would also need to order the spring and “plug screw”, items #3 and #5 respectively in the above diagram, right? What about the shim, #4?


When I did mine, Roger Lee told me the shim was rarely needed unless there is a problem. IIRC I ordered the three parts needed as a kit, but I might be misremembering and have ordered them separately.]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51289#p51289 Fri, 04 May 2018 11:50:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51289#p51289
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51293#p51293 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51293#p51293 Fri, 04 May 2018 12:50:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51293#p51293 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51295#p51295 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51295#p51295 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:04:07 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51295#p51295 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51299#p51299
First, I want to check my logbook to be sure Roger didn't maybe do it at the last hose change.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51299#p51299 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:22:41 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51299#p51299
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51301#p51301 no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51301#p51301 Fri, 04 May 2018 13:32:56 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51301#p51301 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51316#p51316
3Dreaming wrote:It is easier to check the engine itself. If the cap has a recessed center it has the new style. If it is flat all the way across it is the old style.


It's flat and Roger didn't note a change, so I'm ordering the parts tomorrow if they're open.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51316#p51316 Fri, 04 May 2018 19:39:39 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51316#p51316
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51327#p51327

Oil pressure shims should NEVER be used without a mechanical gauge confirmation of the true oil pressure. You almost never see a true low oil pressure. It is usually a bad sending unit, poor ground, reduced radius oil supply hose, wrong sensor type selected if you have a digital instrument or just a bad connection. These all must be ruled out first. I've had several come to the shop that swore it was low oil pressure. They put a shim in and then the pressure would be up in the 80's.

Mechanical gauge confirmation first is a must.]]>
no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51327#p51327 Sat, 05 May 2018 09:14:50 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51327#p51327
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51328#p51328
roger lee wrote:The newer style mushroom is an option. Rotax still uses the ball bearing in new engines.


That surprises me.

Is there then a 1,500 hr TBO on a factory new engine until the ball bearing and associated parts are replaced?

Doesn’t make sense they would not ship engines without the latest parts. I wonder what the logic is.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51328#p51328 Sat, 05 May 2018 09:58:22 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51328#p51328
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51329#p51329
FastEddieB wrote:
roger lee wrote:The newer style mushroom is an option. Rotax still uses the ball bearing in new engines.


That surprises me.

Is there then a 1,500 hr TBO on a factory new engine until the ball bearing and associated parts are replaced?

Doesn’t make sense they would not ship engines without the latest parts. I wonder what the logic is.


The ball is not required to be replaced as part of the upgrade to extend the TBO, it is optional if you have fluctuating oil pressure. IMO the swap out of parts is nothing more than a way to determine if the engine has the extended TBO.]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51329#p51329 Sat, 05 May 2018 10:09:40 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51329#p51329
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51330#p51330
Reconsidering spending $50 or $60 for no obvious benefit.

I was pretty sure I had read that part had to be replaced to extend the TBO.

This SB says at least the “plug screw” must be replaced.

https://legacy.rotaxowner.com/si_tb_info/serviceb/sb-912-057.pdf

I also found an old post of Roger’s on the ROTAX Owner’s forum that said all 3 parts must be replaced to extend the TBO.

https://www.rotax-owner.com/en/rotax-forum/3-4-stroke-technical-questions/3567-tbo-extension-clarification-please

Confusing.

Edited to add: I see Roger says in that same post that very little oil is lost, a no purge should be necessary if that’s all that’s done.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51330#p51330 Sat, 05 May 2018 10:32:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51330#p51330
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51332#p51332 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51332#p51332 Sat, 05 May 2018 12:49:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51332#p51332 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51336#p51336 no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51336#p51336 Sat, 05 May 2018 17:02:19 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51336#p51336 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51341#p51341 Wrong oil types, reduced radius hose, reduced radius fittings, oil tank bottom plate upside down and low oil level can affect the pressure. Once in a great great while and oil pump has an issue.]]> no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51341#p51341 Sat, 05 May 2018 17:59:20 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51341#p51341 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51342#p51342
I read somewhere of there are no washers underneath the cylinder head bolts, it’s the new, eligible design. Mine does not have those washers, if that means anything.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51342#p51342 Sat, 05 May 2018 17:50:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51342#p51342
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by roger lee]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51359#p51359
"https://legacy.rotaxowner.com/si_tb_info/serviceb/sb-912-057.pdf "
This is for certified engines.
You want SB-912-057UL for non certified engines.]]>
no_email@example.com (roger lee) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51359#p51359 Sun, 06 May 2018 09:43:29 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51359#p51359
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51377#p51377
roger lee wrote:5648194, you're included for the TBO ext.


Wow!

You must be psychic!!!

Image]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51377#p51377 Sun, 06 May 2018 15:15:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51377#p51377
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51382#p51382
FastEddieB wrote:
roger lee wrote:5648194, you're included for the TBO ext.


Wow!

You must be psychic!!!

Image


The term my kids use is telepathetic. :D]]>
no_email@example.com (3Dreaming) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51382#p51382 Sun, 06 May 2018 16:33:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51382#p51382
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Oil Pressure Mushroom :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51383#p51383
3Dreaming wrote:The term my kids use is telepathetic. :D


I knew you were going to say that!

Of course, if you really are, your kids don't have to use the term, just think it.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51383#p51383 Sun, 06 May 2018 16:44:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5077&p=51383#p51383
<![CDATA[Fly-Ins & $100 Hamburgers :: Re: Liberty Aviation Museum and lake erie islands :: Reply by putinbay]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3884&p=51689#p51689 http://www.visitputinbay.org we invite you and your fellow pilots to fly in for a visit.

Our little 2.5 mile by 4-mile island offers quite a bit to do from caves, winery tours, watersports to some of the best Lake Erie Walleye fishing you will find anywhere! We have some of the best restaurants in the area and several hotels and resorts on the island should you choose to stay overnight. Our other web based resource for the island is http://www.ohio-put-in-bay.com and between these sites, you should be able to find everything you need to know about the island.

One thing the original poster did not mention is that there is no fuel available at the Put-in-Bay airport and that takeoffs and landings are only permitted from sunrise to sunset as our runway is not lit.]]>
no_email@example.com (putinbay) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3884&p=51689#p51689 Wed, 23 May 2018 13:34:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3884&p=51689#p51689
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50976#p50976
Wm.Ince wrote:Eddy,
I'm sure you already thought about this, but what is the biggest general aviation airplane you could fit into that hangar?
Probably anything with a 40 foot wingspan would fit OK.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50976#p50976 Thu, 26 Apr 2018 15:35:38 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50976#p50976
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50978#p50978
TimTaylor wrote:
Wm.Ince wrote:Eddy,
I'm sure you already thought about this, but what is the biggest general aviation airplane you could fit into that hangar?
Probably anything with a 40 foot wingspan would fit OK.


And needs less than 1700 feet to take off and land :D]]>
no_email@example.com (Sling 2 Pilot) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50978#p50978 Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:06:43 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50978#p50978
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50979#p50979
And I was about to post about planes able to operate out of 1,700 grass strips not likely to be larger than that.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50979#p50979 Thu, 26 Apr 2018 17:09:55 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=50979#p50979
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51047#p51047
I just deleted a couple of off-topic posts from this thread. There are other, more appropriate forums for political debate. This one is reserved for sport flying discussions.]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51047#p51047 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:25:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51047#p51047
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51050#p51050
Baby steps!

Image]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51050#p51050 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 19:17:48 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51050#p51050
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51081#p51081
drseti wrote:I just deleted a couple of off-topic posts from this thread. There are other, more appropriate forums for political debate. This one is reserved for sport flying discussions.

Thanks Paul, for taking out the trash.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51081#p51081 Mon, 30 Apr 2018 22:52:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51081#p51081
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51096#p51096
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:And needs less than 1700 feet to take off and land :D


I saw a lightly loaded King Air take off from a 2000ft grass strip, so I think Eddie will be cool with whatever he wants within reason. :)]]>
no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51096#p51096 Tue, 01 May 2018 08:20:24 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51096#p51096
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51121#p51121
MrMorden wrote:
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:I saw a lightly loaded King Air take off from a 2000ft grass strip, so I think Eddie will be cool with whatever he wants within reason. :)

We used to operate C-12's (King Air 200's) out of Baumholder Army Airfield (1877 feet), Germany, on a routine basis. No big deal.
C-12 was an awesome airplane.]]>
no_email@example.com (Wm.Ince) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51121#p51121 Tue, 01 May 2018 12:27:54 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51121#p51121
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51506#p51506
Image

The ducting on the garage side, seen here, can stay exposed.

Image

Waiting on some special order windows to arrive to finish the siding.

Slow but steady progress does it.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51506#p51506 Thu, 10 May 2018 19:17:16 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51506#p51506
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51573#p51573
Good news:

They're moving mountains of dirt around still.

Image

To avoid trucking it elsewhere, the owner of the strip is using the extra to fill in next to the runway for future construction:

Image

The septic tanks (septic and pump tank) have been set and the drain field started:

Image

Image

The "grey water" has to be pumped uphill to the only good location for the drain field.

Now, the bad news:

The framing inspector says that as a "garage", that area needs to be "finished". That means drywall over all the wood portions and a ceiling installed, and drywall over the OSB we were going to leave bare:

Image

Image


Needless to say, a lot more expense.

In addition, the windows in the stairwell have to go, unless fireproof versions can be found. Same for the sliding glass door we had intended for access from the house.

Sigh.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51573#p51573 Wed, 16 May 2018 07:35:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51573#p51573
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51598#p51598
You could always remove the windows and slider, drywall over the holes for the inspection and/or CO and then cut out the drywall and reinstall the windows and slider afterwards. :mrgreen: (but you didn't hear that from me)

Fire rated windows and slider? Are you installing "fire rated" drywall in the hangar also? Fire rated windows and doors are really a moot point if you are not. Just sayin' :D]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51598#p51598 Wed, 16 May 2018 21:21:01 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51598#p51598
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51601#p51601
ShawnM wrote:Living the dream Eddie, looking great.

You could always remove the windows and slider, drywall over the holes for the inspection and/or CO and then cut out the drywall and reinstall the windows and slider afterwards. :mrgreen: (but you didn't hear that from me)

Fire rated windows and slider? Are you installing "fire rated" drywall in the hangar also? Fire rated windows and doors are really a moot point if you are not. Just sayin' :D


Let me just say I hear where you're coming from on all counts.

Enough said.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51601#p51601 Wed, 16 May 2018 21:35:51 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51601#p51601
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51602#p51602 no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51602#p51602 Wed, 16 May 2018 22:10:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51602#p51602 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51609#p51609 ]]> no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51609#p51609 Thu, 17 May 2018 08:05:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51609#p51609 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51610#p51610
Trying to not make waves and keep everything above board and legal.]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51610#p51610 Thu, 17 May 2018 08:18:46 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51610#p51610
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51614#p51614
Enough said, good luck with the house. It looks amazing.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51614#p51614 Thu, 17 May 2018 08:58:53 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51614#p51614
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51622#p51622
ShawnM wrote:Oh no, the hall monitor is here......I know you'd never do anything dishonest.

Correct.

Love your new digs Eddie.]]>
no_email@example.com (TimTaylor) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51622#p51622 Thu, 17 May 2018 11:51:45 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51622#p51622
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51687#p51687
The rest of the custom side windows arrived and got installed:

Image

Opens up the upstairs "office" (windows overlooking the runway delivered but not yet installed):

Image

Upstairs bedroom window installed and siding finished on two sides:

Image

Image

Insulation install ongoing.

Bit of a delay getting the electric for the septic pump approved, before they can do a final inspection of the septic and drain field to close them up.

Baby steps...]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51687#p51687 Wed, 23 May 2018 08:29:05 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51687#p51687
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51696#p51696
Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51696#p51696 Thu, 24 May 2018 16:58:00 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51696#p51696
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51697#p51697
ShawnM wrote:Looking great Eddie, it's coming along nicely.

Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:


Or a Bass Pro Shops!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51697#p51697 Thu, 24 May 2018 17:00:06 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51697#p51697
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51698#p51698
FastEddieB wrote:
ShawnM wrote:Looking great Eddie, it's coming along nicely.

Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:


Or a Bass Pro Shops!


The Bass Pro Shops look a bit "rustic" to me, the Bob Evans are red with a tin roof just like your home. :mrgreen:

Keep up the great work.]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51698#p51698 Thu, 24 May 2018 17:07:44 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51698#p51698
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by MrMorden]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51699#p51699 no_email@example.com (MrMorden) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51699#p51699 Fri, 25 May 2018 10:51:21 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51699#p51699 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51700#p51700
MrMorden wrote:Eddie's fooling us all, it's actually going to be the next Mega Church, submit your name for it now!


"Wings Over Jesus"

Fly in and get "healed" today. Don't forget your checkbook. :shock:

I rather it be a Bob Evans so there is a restaurant on the field. Who doesn't love a good restaurant on an airport? :mrgreen:]]>
no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51700#p51700 Fri, 25 May 2018 11:47:08 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51700#p51700
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51701#p51701

eddie's digs.jpg


Sorry Eddie, I couldn't resist. A Bob Evans or not I'm still jealous of your beautiful airport home.

Attachments



eddie's digs.jpg (79.38 KiB)


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no_email@example.com (ShawnM) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51701#p51701 Fri, 25 May 2018 12:02:25 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51701#p51701
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51702#p51702
MrMorden wrote:Eddie's fooling us all, it's actually going to be the next Mega Church, submit your name for it now!


You nailed it.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I’m already an ordained Pastafarian Minister:

Image

But all will be welcome!]]>
no_email@example.com (FastEddieB) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51702#p51702 Fri, 25 May 2018 12:42:32 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51702#p51702
<![CDATA[Upcoming Events :: Re: Lock Haven PA fly-in breakfast :: Reply by drseti]]> http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3842&p=51241#p51241 Safe Skies,
Paul]]>
no_email@example.com (drseti) http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3842&p=51241#p51241 Thu, 03 May 2018 13:14:42 -0400 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3842&p=51241#p51241