<![CDATA[Sport Pilot Talk]]> http://sportpilottalk.com 2018-06-17T22:20:59-04:00 Smartfeed Extension for phpBB 3.1 <![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Hello from the "Big Sky Country" MT :: Author 88Chief]]> 2018-05-31T07:58:04-04:00 2018-05-31T07:58:04-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5097&p=51791#p51791 My FBO is at SO9 (Hot Springs MT), I was given the hanger at the field (only one there) I gave the guy $100 to seal the deal...
I would post a few pics if I knew how...]]>
My FBO is at SO9 (Hot Springs MT), I was given the hanger at the field (only one there) I gave the guy $100 to seal the deal...
I would post a few pics if I knew how...]]>
<![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Hello from the "Big Sky Country" MT :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> 2018-05-31T08:55:59-04:00 2018-05-31T08:55:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5097&p=51792#p51792 <![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Hello from the "Big Sky Country" MT :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-05-31T18:08:01-04:00 2018-05-31T18:08:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5097&p=51798#p51798
Vandenberg Tracking Station borrowed "Big Sky" from Montana. :wink:
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Vandenberg Tracking Station borrowed "Big Sky" from Montana. :wink:
Image]]>
<![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Hello from the "Big Sky Country" MT :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-01T23:36:34-04:00 2018-06-01T23:36:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5097&p=51818#p51818 <![CDATA[Introduce Yourself! :: Re: Hello from the "Big Sky Country" MT :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-06-02T10:40:01-04:00 2018-06-02T10:40:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5097&p=51823#p51823
drseti wrote:Was that your unit patch, Stan?


That was one of them, Paul. The "official" early sixties 6596th Instrumentation Squadron (Vandenberg Tracking Station) patch showed a command and control transmitting antenna, a telemetry receiving antenna, and three stars representing MIDAS, SAMOS, and Corona WS-117L reconnaissance satellite missions.

Image

Here's Big Sky Ranch in 1963. My home for 2 1/2 years.
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drseti wrote:Was that your unit patch, Stan?


That was one of them, Paul. The "official" early sixties 6596th Instrumentation Squadron (Vandenberg Tracking Station) patch showed a command and control transmitting antenna, a telemetry receiving antenna, and three stars representing MIDAS, SAMOS, and Corona WS-117L reconnaissance satellite missions.

Image

Here's Big Sky Ranch in 1963. My home for 2 1/2 years.
Image]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by jetcat3]]> 2018-05-20T16:59:02-04:00 2018-05-20T16:59:02-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51656#p51656
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 0518428493

https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/]]>

https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 0518428493

https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-05-21T01:49:05-04:00 2018-05-21T01:49:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51662#p51662 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-21T09:29:58-04:00 2018-05-21T09:29:58-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51664#p51664
roger lee wrote:All this sounds good, but the 915 can only use a constant speed prop due to its shaft design for oil flow through the shaft to the prop flange. This means no LSA.


I think they are working on the non-constant prop version and in any case, if more power is desired, one can always go for a cheaper version at http://badasspowersports.com ( as long as it is an ELSA)]]>
roger lee wrote:All this sounds good, but the 915 can only use a constant speed prop due to its shaft design for oil flow through the shaft to the prop flange. This means no LSA.


I think they are working on the non-constant prop version and in any case, if more power is desired, one can always go for a cheaper version at http://badasspowersports.com ( as long as it is an ELSA)]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-21T10:18:55-04:00 2018-05-21T10:18:55-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51667#p51667
I'm actually a bit interested in their big bore and EFI. Don't know that I need the 18 hp but, heck, it's only $$$. Now all I need to do is find a few thousand lying around.... :D]]>

I'm actually a bit interested in their big bore and EFI. Don't know that I need the 18 hp but, heck, it's only $$$. Now all I need to do is find a few thousand lying around.... :D]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-21T10:29:08-04:00 2018-05-21T10:29:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51668#p51668
dstclair wrote:From what I understand, the Edge Performance 912ULS turbo is around $30K with a crate-new 912ULS. Interesting option for those wanting a turbo.

I'm actually a bit interested in their big bore and EFI. Don't know that I need the 18 hp but, heck, it's only $$$. Now all I need to do is find a few thousand lying around.... :D



Actually TL Ultralight already supports in their Master List of Equipment alternative Rotax engine modifications :
http://sportair.aero/category/12-epapower/

I don't know of any other LSA manufacturer that is willing to risk it - in this case, the SA-R915i engine ( 130 HP) is ridiculously expensive at something like 60K so it is not practical at all ... but I am surprised that they allow it in the first place ( since I am sure Rotax is not going to endorse that )]]>
dstclair wrote:From what I understand, the Edge Performance 912ULS turbo is around $30K with a crate-new 912ULS. Interesting option for those wanting a turbo.

I'm actually a bit interested in their big bore and EFI. Don't know that I need the 18 hp but, heck, it's only $$$. Now all I need to do is find a few thousand lying around.... :D



Actually TL Ultralight already supports in their Master List of Equipment alternative Rotax engine modifications :
http://sportair.aero/category/12-epapower/

I don't know of any other LSA manufacturer that is willing to risk it - in this case, the SA-R915i engine ( 130 HP) is ridiculously expensive at something like 60K so it is not practical at all ... but I am surprised that they allow it in the first place ( since I am sure Rotax is not going to endorse that )]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-21T13:51:42-04:00 2018-05-21T13:51:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51673#p51673 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-21T13:56:57-04:00 2018-05-21T13:56:57-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51674#p51674
MrMorden wrote:It's sounding like Rotax is touting the "single lever" power + prop control to get away from having a separate prop control. I suspect they are going to petition the FAA for an exemption to the LSA rules based on the fact that a single lever config adds no operational complexity and thus no more pilot workload.


So this "single lever" props is basically a prop with a simple switch where you can pres-elect different cruise/climb pitch stages ?]]>
MrMorden wrote:It's sounding like Rotax is touting the "single lever" power + prop control to get away from having a separate prop control. I suspect they are going to petition the FAA for an exemption to the LSA rules based on the fact that a single lever config adds no operational complexity and thus no more pilot workload.


So this "single lever" props is basically a prop with a simple switch where you can pres-elect different cruise/climb pitch stages ?]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-21T14:56:38-04:00 2018-05-21T14:56:38-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51676#p51676
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:It's sounding like Rotax is touting the "single lever" power + prop control to get away from having a separate prop control. I suspect they are going to petition the FAA for an exemption to the LSA rules based on the fact that a single lever config adds no operational complexity and thus no more pilot workload.


So this "single lever" props is basically a prop with a simple switch where you can pres-elect different cruise/climb pitch stages ?


No, the prop control is fully controlled by the computer in response to engine power setting. There is one "power" lever, that controls both the engine RPM and the prop setting. There is NO other prop control. It's literally the same operation as a fixed pitch prop.

I'm guessing the mapping does something like going courser in the 55-75% power range, and then going very flat above 80-90%. That would optimize cruise speed in typical cruise settings and optimize climb in full power takeoff and mid-course climbs.]]>
Warmi wrote:
MrMorden wrote:It's sounding like Rotax is touting the "single lever" power + prop control to get away from having a separate prop control. I suspect they are going to petition the FAA for an exemption to the LSA rules based on the fact that a single lever config adds no operational complexity and thus no more pilot workload.


So this "single lever" props is basically a prop with a simple switch where you can pres-elect different cruise/climb pitch stages ?


No, the prop control is fully controlled by the computer in response to engine power setting. There is one "power" lever, that controls both the engine RPM and the prop setting. There is NO other prop control. It's literally the same operation as a fixed pitch prop.

I'm guessing the mapping does something like going courser in the 55-75% power range, and then going very flat above 80-90%. That would optimize cruise speed in typical cruise settings and optimize climb in full power takeoff and mid-course climbs.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-21T15:28:05-04:00 2018-05-21T15:28:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51677#p51677 Btw the way FAA operates , by the time a petition like that gets approved/rejected, the issue in question probably will no longer be relevant ...]]> Btw the way FAA operates , by the time a petition like that gets approved/rejected, the issue in question probably will no longer be relevant ...]]> <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> 2018-05-21T15:31:40-04:00 2018-05-21T15:31:40-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51678#p51678
MrMorden wrote:I'm guessing the mapping does something like going courser in the 55-75% power range, and then going very flat above 80-90%. That would optimize cruise speed in typical cruise settings and optimize climb in full power takeoff and mid-course climbs.

And with 0% power . . . the prop would feather, to reduce drag, in the event of total power loss.]]>
MrMorden wrote:I'm guessing the mapping does something like going courser in the 55-75% power range, and then going very flat above 80-90%. That would optimize cruise speed in typical cruise settings and optimize climb in full power takeoff and mid-course climbs.

And with 0% power . . . the prop would feather, to reduce drag, in the event of total power loss.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: New Rotax 915is trubo fuel injected 135 hp :: Reply by jetcat3]]> 2018-05-23T11:06:52-04:00 2018-05-23T11:06:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4213&p=51688#p51688
“He also explained that (perhaps surprisingly to some readers) the 915iS compression ratio is lower to allow for the turbo boost. “Stress is actually a little less therefore with the turbo engine,” he said.

Rotax’s 915iS uses the same displacement as the 912iS. In a weight-to-power comparison — grams per kilowatt hour — fuel consumption is only about 6% higher in the more“On the point about an in-flight adjustable or constant speed prop, Rotax Aircraft Engines top boss Thomas Uhr made an important statement when I asked about fixed pitch props on the 915, “All our engines can use fixed pitch props.” As a leader of a public company, he spoke carefully, but the suggestion was clear: Yes, a fixed pitch 915iS is coming, although today the engine is only driving an in-flight adjustable prop.]]>

“He also explained that (perhaps surprisingly to some readers) the 915iS compression ratio is lower to allow for the turbo boost. “Stress is actually a little less therefore with the turbo engine,” he said.

Rotax’s 915iS uses the same displacement as the 912iS. In a weight-to-power comparison — grams per kilowatt hour — fuel consumption is only about 6% higher in the more“On the point about an in-flight adjustable or constant speed prop, Rotax Aircraft Engines top boss Thomas Uhr made an important statement when I asked about fixed pitch props on the 915, “All our engines can use fixed pitch props.” As a leader of a public company, he spoke carefully, but the suggestion was clear: Yes, a fixed pitch 915iS is coming, although today the engine is only driving an in-flight adjustable prop.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: TFRs :: Author dstclair]]> 2018-05-30T13:19:48-04:00 2018-05-30T13:19:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5095&p=51778#p51778

I checked the weather including TFRs and the like before heading out for a flight around the patch this morning. There was/is a presidential TFR for tomorrow in the Dallas area which would affect me but today was good. Off I go!

Ten minutes into my flight a yellow ring shows up on my 795 indicating a TFR. WTF? Did Trump change his plans and I now have busted a presidential TFR? I half-way was looking for F16's to escort me down..... I pulled up the actual TFR and it is indeed for tomorrow. I'm guessing a 'yellow' ring means warning or not yet active, while a 'red' ring means active.

Whew!]]>


I checked the weather including TFRs and the like before heading out for a flight around the patch this morning. There was/is a presidential TFR for tomorrow in the Dallas area which would affect me but today was good. Off I go!

Ten minutes into my flight a yellow ring shows up on my 795 indicating a TFR. WTF? Did Trump change his plans and I now have busted a presidential TFR? I half-way was looking for F16's to escort me down..... I pulled up the actual TFR and it is indeed for tomorrow. I'm guessing a 'yellow' ring means warning or not yet active, while a 'red' ring means active.

Whew!]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: TFRs :: Reply by jetcat3]]> 2018-05-30T21:56:48-04:00 2018-05-30T21:56:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5095&p=51788#p51788
Drew]]>

Drew]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by JJay]]> 2018-05-27T16:39:42-04:00 2018-05-27T16:39:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51712#p51712
I would have to send a letter to TL Ultralight to get uAvionix on the list - no problem at all ..


But the uAvionix skyBeacon (wing tip light) won't work on a Sting - correct? The Nav lights on a Sting are inside a cover. I know uAvionix is coming out with a tail light (tailBeacon) but I have a strong feeling that it will be much larger than the tail light on a Sting.

I too have figured the Garmin GDL-82 might be my best option. If I can get a friendly A&P to take on the task, I'm worried it's still going to end up in the price range of a GTX-335 (transponder swap-out).

Anyone put a GDL-82 in a Sting?]]>
I would have to send a letter to TL Ultralight to get uAvionix on the list - no problem at all ..


But the uAvionix skyBeacon (wing tip light) won't work on a Sting - correct? The Nav lights on a Sting are inside a cover. I know uAvionix is coming out with a tail light (tailBeacon) but I have a strong feeling that it will be much larger than the tail light on a Sting.

I too have figured the Garmin GDL-82 might be my best option. If I can get a friendly A&P to take on the task, I'm worried it's still going to end up in the price range of a GTX-335 (transponder swap-out).

Anyone put a GDL-82 in a Sting?]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-27T17:04:06-04:00 2018-05-27T17:04:06-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51718#p51718
JJay wrote:
I would have to send a letter to TL Ultralight to get uAvionix on the list - no problem at all ..


But the uAvionix skyBeacon (wing tip light) won't work on a Sting - correct? The Nav lights on a Sting are inside a cover. I know uAvionix is coming out with a tail light (tailBeacon) but I have a strong feeling that it will be much larger than the tail light on a Sting.

I too have figured the Garmin GDL-82 might be my best option. If I can get a friendly A&P to take on the task, I'm worried it's still going to end up in the price range of a GTX-335 (transponder swap-out).

Anyone put a GDL-82 in a Sting?


I am talking to http://www.midwestskysports.com/ to have it installed ( GDL 82 ) + some other minor avionics related work - currently waiting for a quote.]]>
JJay wrote:
I would have to send a letter to TL Ultralight to get uAvionix on the list - no problem at all ..


But the uAvionix skyBeacon (wing tip light) won't work on a Sting - correct? The Nav lights on a Sting are inside a cover. I know uAvionix is coming out with a tail light (tailBeacon) but I have a strong feeling that it will be much larger than the tail light on a Sting.

I too have figured the Garmin GDL-82 might be my best option. If I can get a friendly A&P to take on the task, I'm worried it's still going to end up in the price range of a GTX-335 (transponder swap-out).

Anyone put a GDL-82 in a Sting?


I am talking to http://www.midwestskysports.com/ to have it installed ( GDL 82 ) + some other minor avionics related work - currently waiting for a quote.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-27T21:12:59-04:00 2018-05-27T21:12:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51724#p51724
MrMorden wrote:That part is true, there are very few "blanket approvals" for the Flight Design airplanes, for example. And even for those you still have to submit an MRA (major repair or alteration) form to FD for their files, for which they'll charge you $75.

Sounds like TL is doing it right, from a customer perspective.


You should be so lucky to simply have to submit some paperwork and pay $75 to make a change, this sounds like FD is doing it right as well, sounds like heaven to me. :mrgreen:]]>
MrMorden wrote:That part is true, there are very few "blanket approvals" for the Flight Design airplanes, for example. And even for those you still have to submit an MRA (major repair or alteration) form to FD for their files, for which they'll charge you $75.

Sounds like TL is doing it right, from a customer perspective.


You should be so lucky to simply have to submit some paperwork and pay $75 to make a change, this sounds like FD is doing it right as well, sounds like heaven to me. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-27T21:26:44-04:00 2018-05-27T21:26:44-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51726#p51726
JJay wrote:But the uAvionix skyBeacon (wing tip light) won't work on a Sting - correct? The Nav lights on a Sting are inside a cover. I know uAvionix is coming out with a tail light (tailBeacon) but I have a strong feeling that it will be much larger than the tail light on a Sting.

I too have figured the Garmin GDL-82 might be my best option. If I can get a friendly A&P to take on the task, I'm worried it's still going to end up in the price range of a GTX-335 (transponder swap-out).

Anyone put a GDL-82 in a Sting?


The GDL-82 is a clean and simple install and works really well. You won't be disappointed at all with Garmin's unit. I have one installed (not in a Sting) and love it.

Swapping out a 327 transponder for the 335 will be more work and more money all around. There's nothing simple about a transponder swap when you are swapping the trays and terminating all new wires for the high density connector connector on the 335. The 335 has a 62 pin connector and the 327 has a 25 pin connector, there are a few more wires needed. :mrgreen: The 335 is about 2 inches longer than the 327 so be sure you have the room if you go this route. Just food for thought.]]>
JJay wrote:But the uAvionix skyBeacon (wing tip light) won't work on a Sting - correct? The Nav lights on a Sting are inside a cover. I know uAvionix is coming out with a tail light (tailBeacon) but I have a strong feeling that it will be much larger than the tail light on a Sting.

I too have figured the Garmin GDL-82 might be my best option. If I can get a friendly A&P to take on the task, I'm worried it's still going to end up in the price range of a GTX-335 (transponder swap-out).

Anyone put a GDL-82 in a Sting?


The GDL-82 is a clean and simple install and works really well. You won't be disappointed at all with Garmin's unit. I have one installed (not in a Sting) and love it.

Swapping out a 327 transponder for the 335 will be more work and more money all around. There's nothing simple about a transponder swap when you are swapping the trays and terminating all new wires for the high density connector connector on the 335. The 335 has a 62 pin connector and the 327 has a 25 pin connector, there are a few more wires needed. :mrgreen: The 335 is about 2 inches longer than the 327 so be sure you have the room if you go this route. Just food for thought.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-31T12:48:52-04:00 2018-05-31T12:48:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51796#p51796 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-05-31T18:14:32-04:00 2018-05-31T18:14:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51799#p51799 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-31T18:21:16-04:00 2018-05-31T18:21:16-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51800#p51800 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-31T19:07:11-04:00 2018-05-31T19:07:11-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51801#p51801 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-31T19:48:22-04:00 2018-05-31T19:48:22-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51802#p51802 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-31T20:08:26-04:00 2018-05-31T20:08:26-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51803#p51803
Scooper wrote:Law of supply and demand, I guess. It sure does sound like gouging to me, though.


Certainly sounds like price gouging to me as well. :shock:

I fear it's only going to get worse as the deadline approaches for the ten's of thousands who have yet to equip.

For that kind of money you could search farther out for an avionics shop and make a cross country trip out of it. Could be fun. :mrgreen:]]>
Scooper wrote:Law of supply and demand, I guess. It sure does sound like gouging to me, though.


Certainly sounds like price gouging to me as well. :shock:

I fear it's only going to get worse as the deadline approaches for the ten's of thousands who have yet to equip.

For that kind of money you could search farther out for an avionics shop and make a cross country trip out of it. Could be fun. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-31T20:36:57-04:00 2018-05-31T20:36:57-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51804#p51804 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-31T22:18:15-04:00 2018-05-31T22:18:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51805#p51805
The quote I got was for:
Install and wire Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B Out,
Install GA 35 GPS Antenna & Create
Approved Ground Plane for Composite
Aircraft

15 hours total.]]>

The quote I got was for:
Install and wire Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B Out,
Install GA 35 GPS Antenna & Create
Approved Ground Plane for Composite
Aircraft

15 hours total.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-31T22:53:21-04:00 2018-05-31T22:53:21-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51806#p51806
Warmi wrote:Btw. Are you sure 4 hours would be enough ?

The quote I got was for:
Install and wire Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B Out,
Install GA 35 GPS Antenna & Create
Approved Ground Plane for Composite
Aircraft

15 hours total.


I’m sorry but there’s no way on earth a GDL-82 could take 15 hours to install unless the installer is Stevie Wonder. 8)]]>
Warmi wrote:Btw. Are you sure 4 hours would be enough ?

The quote I got was for:
Install and wire Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B Out,
Install GA 35 GPS Antenna & Create
Approved Ground Plane for Composite
Aircraft

15 hours total.


I’m sorry but there’s no way on earth a GDL-82 could take 15 hours to install unless the installer is Stevie Wonder. 8)]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-31T23:07:35-04:00 2018-05-31T23:07:35-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51807#p51807 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-31T23:33:14-04:00 2018-05-31T23:33:14-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51808#p51808
Warmi wrote:If you can fly to IL and help me to install that thing , we can split the difference :D


if it were only legal. :mrgreen:

Just out of curiosity have you tried this site? I’ve not used it but it was posted on our SportCruiser forum.

https://www.equipads-b.com/homes]]>
Warmi wrote:If you can fly to IL and help me to install that thing , we can split the difference :D


if it were only legal. :mrgreen:

Just out of curiosity have you tried this site? I’ve not used it but it was posted on our SportCruiser forum.

https://www.equipads-b.com/homes]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by JJay]]> 2018-06-01T22:05:15-04:00 2018-06-01T22:05:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51812#p51812 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-01T22:22:42-04:00 2018-06-01T22:22:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51813#p51813
Anyway, the real killer here is labor , if almost doubles the cost ...and it seems that unless you do it yourself, you just gonna have to pay ,maybe a little less here or a bit more there but still ...]]>

Anyway, the real killer here is labor , if almost doubles the cost ...and it seems that unless you do it yourself, you just gonna have to pay ,maybe a little less here or a bit more there but still ...]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-06-01T22:38:10-04:00 2018-06-01T22:38:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51814#p51814
This shop is taking advantage of you.]]>

This shop is taking advantage of you.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-01T23:34:55-04:00 2018-06-01T23:34:55-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51817#p51817
dstclair wrote:FAR 43.3(d) allows an A&P to supervise about any kind of work.


True. But not all avionics installs can be done by an A&P. Some have to be done by an authorized repair station. And, to further complicate things, if installing in an SLSA under an LoA, the LoA will specify what certification is required to do the mod. It's entirely up to the aircraft manufacturer to set those limits.]]>
dstclair wrote:FAR 43.3(d) allows an A&P to supervise about any kind of work.


True. But not all avionics installs can be done by an A&P. Some have to be done by an authorized repair station. And, to further complicate things, if installing in an SLSA under an LoA, the LoA will specify what certification is required to do the mod. It's entirely up to the aircraft manufacturer to set those limits.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-06-02T08:53:06-04:00 2018-06-02T08:53:06-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51822#p51822 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: ADSB-B in and out :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-03T08:57:33-04:00 2018-06-03T08:57:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5026&p=51836#p51836
dstclair wrote:....... Also, installing the GPS antenna is dead simple on a Sting. Just mount it on top of the panel.

This shop is taking advantage of you.


The GA-35 GPS antenna that is part of the GDL-82 requires a ground plane. Unless the area on top of your "panel" is metal and at least 15" in diameter it wont work adequately. I had a few signal issues after my initial installation and the placement of my GPS antenna. It wants a clear view of the sky with no possibility of shadowing and a large ground plane. I had a few failures on some of my PAPR reports during testing. I have since moved my GPS antenna to the top of the aircraft and it has worked PERFECT on every flight and PAPR report since them. ADS-B is not where you want a "marginal" antenna signal.

And yes, it can use your existing transponder antenna which already has a ground plane. But I would check the freq range of the transponder antenna you have to be sure it covers the 978 MHZ band. Mine didn't and again I didn't want a "marginal" signal so I installed the Rami AV-74. Just food for thought.]]>
dstclair wrote:....... Also, installing the GPS antenna is dead simple on a Sting. Just mount it on top of the panel.

This shop is taking advantage of you.


The GA-35 GPS antenna that is part of the GDL-82 requires a ground plane. Unless the area on top of your "panel" is metal and at least 15" in diameter it wont work adequately. I had a few signal issues after my initial installation and the placement of my GPS antenna. It wants a clear view of the sky with no possibility of shadowing and a large ground plane. I had a few failures on some of my PAPR reports during testing. I have since moved my GPS antenna to the top of the aircraft and it has worked PERFECT on every flight and PAPR report since them. ADS-B is not where you want a "marginal" antenna signal.

And yes, it can use your existing transponder antenna which already has a ground plane. But I would check the freq range of the transponder antenna you have to be sure it covers the 978 MHZ band. Mine didn't and again I didn't want a "marginal" signal so I installed the Rami AV-74. Just food for thought.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Hanging Up My Wings :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-04T19:11:07-04:00 2018-06-04T19:11:07-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4997&p=51867#p51867 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Hanging Up My Wings :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-05T07:06:32-04:00 2018-06-05T07:06:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4997&p=51871#p51871 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Hanging Up My Wings :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-05T10:23:38-04:00 2018-06-05T10:23:38-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4997&p=51873#p51873 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Aero Countries Wild Ride... :: Author dstclair]]> 2018-06-05T16:09:45-04:00 2018-06-05T16:09:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5101&p=51879#p51879
We had a storm blow through this morning that left a beautiful, clear, relatively cool day with winds forecast to be 140@8 (30 degrees crosswind). Should be a great day to get away for a lunch flight! Winds were even lighter than forecast when I got to the airport. Was odd that TKI (towered airport 8 miles east) was reporting winds 060@8 and windsocks at T31 were generally ESE. Nice smooth take-off and flew around the patch for an hour before heading back. Air at 3000' was very smooth. Winds were forecast 220@9 but the Dynon was showing more like 150@25. Hmmm.

Wind was reported at TKI to be 110@9 but tower was telling local traffic it was 080@10. Shouldn't be a concern.

There was a C182 in the pattern when I announced 10 miles out and he responded back that the Aero Country Churn was alive and well. I thanked him and said I was looking forward to it.... I joined the pattern on downwind and it took around 25 degree crab to hold direction. Pretty bouncy. NBD. Cut the power abeam the numbers, took a notch of flaps and trimmed for 55 kts. Turned base and took the last notch of flaps, then final. I'm holding the centerline with a 20 degree crab, good decent but pretty bouncy. I got this. Got below the treeline, wind disappears, I kick the crab out, then catch a swirling wind from the behind, then get blasted with a gust from the east. I balloon about 10 feet up. WTF. I'm out of here and hit the throttle for a go-round. The Cessna driver complimented me on my go-round :D

Attempt #2. Good pattern, good approach, much smoother on the way down until I hit the treetops. Pushed me up, down and west. Still able to hold the centerline relatively well. Got through the turbulence and was about ready to touchdown on the upwind main, when a gusty tailwind hit that pushed me to the edge of the runway. Not good. Go round #2.

Attempt #3. OK. I'm a better pilot than this, I think. This time I'm not going to land. I run the pattern, do the approach, then fly 3 feet or so off the runway with a notch of flaps the length of the runway to get a feel for all wind forces. I got this, I think.

Attempt #4. Note that the C182 was doing their final landing and on final had a 20 degree crab all the way to the ground. They wobbled quite a bit over the runway and landed at the extreme east edge. Guess the conditions are a bit challenging. Ran another good pattern, nice stable approach on final. Carried a bit more speed until I was below the treeline. Descended slowly and pretty smooth to just beyond the numbers. Caught another gust but only went up a couple feet. Smoothed it out and touched lightly on the upwind main. "Fly the plane" ran through my brain. Kept the stick into the wind, then gently dropped onto the downwind leg. A little rudder to straighten up. Keep the nose wheel up. Let the nose come down slowly. Whew! Now on 3 wheels. Remember to breathe fly the plane then taxi to the hangar. I got a standing O from a handful of onlookers :oops:

There are several windsocks at T31. I believe they fully extend at 15 kts. The north end of the runway looked like 060@15, 1/4 of the way down was direct crosswind at 15 and halfway looked like 130@10G15.

Quite a humbling and exhilarating experience!]]>

We had a storm blow through this morning that left a beautiful, clear, relatively cool day with winds forecast to be 140@8 (30 degrees crosswind). Should be a great day to get away for a lunch flight! Winds were even lighter than forecast when I got to the airport. Was odd that TKI (towered airport 8 miles east) was reporting winds 060@8 and windsocks at T31 were generally ESE. Nice smooth take-off and flew around the patch for an hour before heading back. Air at 3000' was very smooth. Winds were forecast 220@9 but the Dynon was showing more like 150@25. Hmmm.

Wind was reported at TKI to be 110@9 but tower was telling local traffic it was 080@10. Shouldn't be a concern.

There was a C182 in the pattern when I announced 10 miles out and he responded back that the Aero Country Churn was alive and well. I thanked him and said I was looking forward to it.... I joined the pattern on downwind and it took around 25 degree crab to hold direction. Pretty bouncy. NBD. Cut the power abeam the numbers, took a notch of flaps and trimmed for 55 kts. Turned base and took the last notch of flaps, then final. I'm holding the centerline with a 20 degree crab, good decent but pretty bouncy. I got this. Got below the treeline, wind disappears, I kick the crab out, then catch a swirling wind from the behind, then get blasted with a gust from the east. I balloon about 10 feet up. WTF. I'm out of here and hit the throttle for a go-round. The Cessna driver complimented me on my go-round :D

Attempt #2. Good pattern, good approach, much smoother on the way down until I hit the treetops. Pushed me up, down and west. Still able to hold the centerline relatively well. Got through the turbulence and was about ready to touchdown on the upwind main, when a gusty tailwind hit that pushed me to the edge of the runway. Not good. Go round #2.

Attempt #3. OK. I'm a better pilot than this, I think. This time I'm not going to land. I run the pattern, do the approach, then fly 3 feet or so off the runway with a notch of flaps the length of the runway to get a feel for all wind forces. I got this, I think.

Attempt #4. Note that the C182 was doing their final landing and on final had a 20 degree crab all the way to the ground. They wobbled quite a bit over the runway and landed at the extreme east edge. Guess the conditions are a bit challenging. Ran another good pattern, nice stable approach on final. Carried a bit more speed until I was below the treeline. Descended slowly and pretty smooth to just beyond the numbers. Caught another gust but only went up a couple feet. Smoothed it out and touched lightly on the upwind main. "Fly the plane" ran through my brain. Kept the stick into the wind, then gently dropped onto the downwind leg. A little rudder to straighten up. Keep the nose wheel up. Let the nose come down slowly. Whew! Now on 3 wheels. Remember to breathe fly the plane then taxi to the hangar. I got a standing O from a handful of onlookers :oops:

There are several windsocks at T31. I believe they fully extend at 15 kts. The north end of the runway looked like 060@15, 1/4 of the way down was direct crosswind at 15 and halfway looked like 130@10G15.

Quite a humbling and exhilarating experience!]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Aero Countries Wild Ride... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-05T17:11:18-04:00 2018-06-05T17:11:18-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5101&p=51884#p51884 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Flight Training Survey :: Author Euro-american]]> 2018-06-12T12:16:34-04:00 2018-06-12T12:16:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5111&p=51985#p51985
Your participation can help your schools and instructors be the very best they can be. Act Now – the Survey Closes August 13, 2018 at 12:00 p.m. (noon) EDT.

To take the survey, please visit www.aopa.org/takesurvey.
For more information, please visit www.aopa.org/ftsurvey.]]>

Your participation can help your schools and instructors be the very best they can be. Act Now – the Survey Closes August 13, 2018 at 12:00 p.m. (noon) EDT.

To take the survey, please visit www.aopa.org/takesurvey.
For more information, please visit www.aopa.org/ftsurvey.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Takeoff Distance :: Author Jim Hardin]]> 2018-06-14T10:43:43-04:00 2018-06-14T10:43:43-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5114&p=52005#p52005 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_4-0-4

They list a TO distance to 50 feet as 1980!

That is mind boggling when looking at 44,900 lbs max TO weight.

I seem to recall an aquaintence who told me he could fly it from our 2200 foot field. He never did it.]]>
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_4-0-4

They list a TO distance to 50 feet as 1980!

That is mind boggling when looking at 44,900 lbs max TO weight.

I seem to recall an aquaintence who told me he could fly it from our 2200 foot field. He never did it.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: What do you use? :: Author Sling 2 Pilot]]> 2018-06-11T21:40:34-04:00 2018-06-11T21:40:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5108&p=51973#p51973 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: What do you use? :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-11T21:48:30-04:00 2018-06-11T21:48:30-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5108&p=51975#p51975
Mogas should be fairly well filtered at the pump, but when transporting in cans there's always a chance for foreign matter to get introduced.

I recently bought a second Mr. Funnel to keep at our Lenoir City field. They're available on Amazon.com.]]>

Mogas should be fairly well filtered at the pump, but when transporting in cans there's always a chance for foreign matter to get introduced.

I recently bought a second Mr. Funnel to keep at our Lenoir City field. They're available on Amazon.com.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: What do you use? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-11T21:55:19-04:00 2018-06-11T21:55:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5108&p=51976#p51976 I think between fuel containers with their own filters and the funnel, I am likely to catch anything that could potentially cause problems ...]]> I think between fuel containers with their own filters and the funnel, I am likely to catch anything that could potentially cause problems ...]]> <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: What do you use? :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> 2018-06-11T22:22:26-04:00 2018-06-11T22:22:26-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5108&p=51977#p51977
FastEddieB wrote:My Sky Arrow was delivered with a Mr. Funnel, which I always use when using mogas. Carry it with me on any trip I think I might be taking on mogas. Don't use it when pumping avgas from a pump.

Mogas should be fairly well filtered at the pump, but when transporting in cans there's always a chance for foreign matter to get introduced.

I recently bought a second Mr. Funnel to keep at our Lenoir City field. They're available on Amazon.com.


Thanks Eddie, I just ordered their F15 model off Amazon.]]>
FastEddieB wrote:My Sky Arrow was delivered with a Mr. Funnel, which I always use when using mogas. Carry it with me on any trip I think I might be taking on mogas. Don't use it when pumping avgas from a pump.

Mogas should be fairly well filtered at the pump, but when transporting in cans there's always a chance for foreign matter to get introduced.

I recently bought a second Mr. Funnel to keep at our Lenoir City field. They're available on Amazon.com.


Thanks Eddie, I just ordered their F15 model off Amazon.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: What do you use? :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> 2018-06-14T11:04:27-04:00 2018-06-14T11:04:27-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5108&p=52007#p52007
Whittled a cork to fit the nozzle :wink:]]>

Whittled a cork to fit the nozzle :wink:]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Motor Glider :: Reply by Jim Hardin]]> 2018-06-14T10:48:11-04:00 2018-06-14T10:48:11-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5082&p=52006#p52006 Probably is.]]> Probably is.]]> <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Motor Glider :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-14T11:39:59-04:00 2018-06-14T11:39:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5082&p=52008#p52008
Jim Hardin wrote:Sounds too good to be true.
Probably is.


Was, Jim. It already sold.]]>
Jim Hardin wrote:Sounds too good to be true.
Probably is.


Was, Jim. It already sold.]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Pireps :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> 2018-06-14T13:46:46-04:00 2018-06-14T13:46:46-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3029&p=52010#p52010 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: C150 for sale :: Author foresterpoole]]> 2018-06-14T14:01:43-04:00 2018-06-14T14:01:43-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5115&p=52011#p52011
Here is the facebook post, he has dropped the price from 23K to 19K.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/447019069082254]]>

Here is the facebook post, he has dropped the price from 23K to 19K.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/447019069082254]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Rotax Service Class Oct. 6 & 7, 2018 in Tucson, AZ :: Author roger lee]]> 2018-06-16T09:51:22-04:00 2018-06-16T09:51:22-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5116&p=52023#p52023

New Rotax 912UL/ULS & 912iS Service Class
Conducted by Rotax Instructor Roger Lee in Tucson, AZ
In conjunction with California Power Systems
Come join us for a new and exciting Service class.

Lots of hands on so don't miss it!

http://www.cps-parts.com/catalog/rtxpag ... pclass.php

Oct. 6th & 7th, 2018
(Saturday & Sunday)

This class is a must for an Owner, LSRM or an A&P mechanic to develop their 912 series inspection skills and knowledge.
This class will focus on a hands on approach to completing a 100 hour / annual condition inspection. The class will differ from other Service rated classes as it will spend less classroom time and a lot of hands on time with a live engine performing a 100 hour / Annual Condition Inspection. You will be able to ask on the spot questions and solve problems on the live engine while developing and expanding your 912 inspection skills and knowledge base. We will have classroom in the morning Saturday and Sunday (Oct. 6th & 7th) and spend both afternoons doing an annual inspection on an in-service and operational 912 engine. The afternoons will be spent in the hangar and everyone will be turning wrenches and performing task. You WILL understand a carb sync at the end of this class. We will have the Maintenance manual out and will follow the inspection procedures. At the end of this class you should be well grounded in the performance of a 100 hour / annual condition inspection. You will receive a Rotax Service certificate for successful completion of this class.
Our classroom is air conditioned and comfortable. Maximum student limit of 10. The class size is limited to make sure everyone gets to participate so don’t procrastinate and sign up now. Class times will be 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Fly into Tucson International Airport (TIA) or fly your own plane into Ryan Airfield. Classes are Saturday and Sunday. All rental cars are on site at Tucson International Airport or Enterprise will pick you up if you fly into Ryan Airfield. Several hotels are just hundreds of yards down the street at TIA. Ryan Airport (KRYN) is only 10-12 minute drive. The entire experience is convenient and comfortable.
For additional information or to sign up call Brain Toepfer at CPS in CA at 951-549-7786 ext. 302 or email bryantoepfer@cps-parts.com. For additional class details call Roger Lee in Tucson, AZ at 520-574-1080.

CLASS OVERVIEW:
This is a two day 16 hour class that qualifies graduates to maintain 912 series engines under ASTM standards as set forth by the Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) regulations. Passing a written exam is required for Rotax certification and graduates will be issued an IRMT (Independent Rotax Maintenance Technician) badge and service number valid for two years.
This course will supply attendees with the following information and skills:
· Rotax History and Product Familiarization
· Senders and Instrumentation
· Gearbox : The internal workings and maintenance
· Propeller considerations, adjustment and its effects on your engine
· Hose inspection, maintenance and considerations
· Oil System workings, maintenance and considerations
· Cooling System workings, maintenance and considerations
· Fuel System workings, maintenance and considerations
· Carburetor workings, maintenance and keeping them in sync
· Ignition Theory
· Compression and why it’s important, what it tells us and performance of a real compression test
· Troubleshooting
· Scheduled Maintenance
· Maintenance Documentation

MATERIALS:
All tools, reading materials, and supplies will be provided, however you should bring a laptop or tablet to view the manuals or do any research. A free WIFI connection is available in the classroom.


http://www.cps-parts.com/catalog/rtxpag ... pclass.php]]>


New Rotax 912UL/ULS & 912iS Service Class
Conducted by Rotax Instructor Roger Lee in Tucson, AZ
In conjunction with California Power Systems
Come join us for a new and exciting Service class.

Lots of hands on so don't miss it!

http://www.cps-parts.com/catalog/rtxpag ... pclass.php

Oct. 6th & 7th, 2018
(Saturday & Sunday)

This class is a must for an Owner, LSRM or an A&P mechanic to develop their 912 series inspection skills and knowledge.
This class will focus on a hands on approach to completing a 100 hour / annual condition inspection. The class will differ from other Service rated classes as it will spend less classroom time and a lot of hands on time with a live engine performing a 100 hour / Annual Condition Inspection. You will be able to ask on the spot questions and solve problems on the live engine while developing and expanding your 912 inspection skills and knowledge base. We will have classroom in the morning Saturday and Sunday (Oct. 6th & 7th) and spend both afternoons doing an annual inspection on an in-service and operational 912 engine. The afternoons will be spent in the hangar and everyone will be turning wrenches and performing task. You WILL understand a carb sync at the end of this class. We will have the Maintenance manual out and will follow the inspection procedures. At the end of this class you should be well grounded in the performance of a 100 hour / annual condition inspection. You will receive a Rotax Service certificate for successful completion of this class.
Our classroom is air conditioned and comfortable. Maximum student limit of 10. The class size is limited to make sure everyone gets to participate so don’t procrastinate and sign up now. Class times will be 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Fly into Tucson International Airport (TIA) or fly your own plane into Ryan Airfield. Classes are Saturday and Sunday. All rental cars are on site at Tucson International Airport or Enterprise will pick you up if you fly into Ryan Airfield. Several hotels are just hundreds of yards down the street at TIA. Ryan Airport (KRYN) is only 10-12 minute drive. The entire experience is convenient and comfortable.
For additional information or to sign up call Brain Toepfer at CPS in CA at 951-549-7786 ext. 302 or email bryantoepfer@cps-parts.com. For additional class details call Roger Lee in Tucson, AZ at 520-574-1080.

CLASS OVERVIEW:
This is a two day 16 hour class that qualifies graduates to maintain 912 series engines under ASTM standards as set forth by the Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) regulations. Passing a written exam is required for Rotax certification and graduates will be issued an IRMT (Independent Rotax Maintenance Technician) badge and service number valid for two years.
This course will supply attendees with the following information and skills:
· Rotax History and Product Familiarization
· Senders and Instrumentation
· Gearbox : The internal workings and maintenance
· Propeller considerations, adjustment and its effects on your engine
· Hose inspection, maintenance and considerations
· Oil System workings, maintenance and considerations
· Cooling System workings, maintenance and considerations
· Fuel System workings, maintenance and considerations
· Carburetor workings, maintenance and keeping them in sync
· Ignition Theory
· Compression and why it’s important, what it tells us and performance of a real compression test
· Troubleshooting
· Scheduled Maintenance
· Maintenance Documentation

MATERIALS:
All tools, reading materials, and supplies will be provided, however you should bring a laptop or tablet to view the manuals or do any research. A free WIFI connection is available in the classroom.


http://www.cps-parts.com/catalog/rtxpag ... pclass.php]]>
<![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Rotax Service Class Oct. 6 & 7, 2018 in Tucson, AZ :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-16T13:26:59-04:00 2018-06-16T13:26:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5116&p=52024#p52024 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Rotax Service Class Oct. 6 & 7, 2018 in Tucson, AZ :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-06-16T15:26:10-04:00 2018-06-16T15:26:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5116&p=52025#p52025 <![CDATA[Hangar Talk :: Re: Rotax Service Class Oct. 6 & 7, 2018 in Tucson, AZ :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-16T16:18:07-04:00 2018-06-16T16:18:07-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5116&p=52026#p52026 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Author FlyingBliss]]> 2018-05-30T16:32:41-04:00 2018-05-30T16:32:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51780#p51780 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-30T16:57:34-04:00 2018-05-30T16:57:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51781#p51781
FlyingBliss wrote:Has anyone bought an EFI (electronic fuel injection) and turbo-charge upgrade to their Rotax 912ULS from Edge Performance, or, their dealer in Alberta Canada; Bad Ass Power Sports? From what I understand it requires that the owner register the plane as LSA-Experimental, and, it can significantly improve performance (big increase in HP). Jason, from Bad Ass Power Sports, said he recently installed one in a Tecnam P2008 and it bumped the cruise speed up to 150 knots. Any experience on this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Yes, right now you need to switch to LSA-E but I , I think, you would also need to placard your experimental to warn people not go any faster than 120 knots - Arion Lightning "wink wink nudge nudge" style ...
I actually msg the owner of the company ( from Norway) and kind of half-jokingly asked him to get TL Ultralight to include his mod on the list of approved modifications, which he promptly took to the TL Ultralight guys ... they said they will look into it - I am not holding my breath but who knows , TL Ultralight already supports another Rotax 912 mod (http://sportair.aero/category/12-epapower/) so who knows ...

On the other hand, there are about 300 EFI toolkits out there , some with , I think 1500+ hours on them and only about few dozen EFI+Turbo .. do you really want to take the risk of basically running en experimental setup like that :)
I remember doing some research and the EFI kit includes key hardware from a company that specifically warns not to use it in any aviation applications because of lack of redundancy ...]]>
FlyingBliss wrote:Has anyone bought an EFI (electronic fuel injection) and turbo-charge upgrade to their Rotax 912ULS from Edge Performance, or, their dealer in Alberta Canada; Bad Ass Power Sports? From what I understand it requires that the owner register the plane as LSA-Experimental, and, it can significantly improve performance (big increase in HP). Jason, from Bad Ass Power Sports, said he recently installed one in a Tecnam P2008 and it bumped the cruise speed up to 150 knots. Any experience on this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


Yes, right now you need to switch to LSA-E but I , I think, you would also need to placard your experimental to warn people not go any faster than 120 knots - Arion Lightning "wink wink nudge nudge" style ...
I actually msg the owner of the company ( from Norway) and kind of half-jokingly asked him to get TL Ultralight to include his mod on the list of approved modifications, which he promptly took to the TL Ultralight guys ... they said they will look into it - I am not holding my breath but who knows , TL Ultralight already supports another Rotax 912 mod (http://sportair.aero/category/12-epapower/) so who knows ...

On the other hand, there are about 300 EFI toolkits out there , some with , I think 1500+ hours on them and only about few dozen EFI+Turbo .. do you really want to take the risk of basically running en experimental setup like that :)
I remember doing some research and the EFI kit includes key hardware from a company that specifically warns not to use it in any aviation applications because of lack of redundancy ...]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-30T19:56:36-04:00 2018-05-30T19:56:36-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51782#p51782 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-30T20:07:48-04:00 2018-05-30T20:07:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51783#p51783
dstclair wrote:You'd get a lot of speed and climb for ~20% hp increase.


I’m a bit indisposed, but I don’t think a 20% HP increase buys you that much extra speed. Climb, yes, since that is a result of excess HP.

I’m forgetting right now if drag increases as the square or the cube of the speed increase. I think drag increases as the square, but power required as the cube.

Professor? Anyone?]]>
dstclair wrote:You'd get a lot of speed and climb for ~20% hp increase.


I’m a bit indisposed, but I don’t think a 20% HP increase buys you that much extra speed. Climb, yes, since that is a result of excess HP.

I’m forgetting right now if drag increases as the square or the cube of the speed increase. I think drag increases as the square, but power required as the cube.

Professor? Anyone?]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-30T20:19:10-04:00 2018-05-30T20:19:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51784#p51784 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-30T20:24:27-04:00 2018-05-30T20:24:27-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51785#p51785 http://howthingsfly.si.edu/aerodynamics/pressure-drag]]> http://howthingsfly.si.edu/aerodynamics/pressure-drag]]> <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-30T20:26:23-04:00 2018-05-30T20:26:23-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51786#p51786 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-30T20:31:05-04:00 2018-05-30T20:31:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51787#p51787 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by jetcat3]]> 2018-05-30T22:01:27-04:00 2018-05-30T22:01:27-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51789#p51789 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-30T22:54:32-04:00 2018-05-30T22:54:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51790#p51790
Warmi wrote:Pow(x,2) but drag cannot be described with a simple equation like that... the answer is , it depends :)

There are real world examples that might directionally demonstrate how increased HP improves performance. Airplains has an STC to upgrade 172's from 160hp to 180hp. They quote the performance improvements:
Speed 138mph to 150mph (9%), Climb 750fpm to 900 fpm (20%) and Ceiling 13K to 17K.

This would be for a 12.5% increase in HP. In this case, 72% (9/12.5) of the power increase is realized in cruise.

If percentages hold and assuming a 20% HP increase then one might get a 14.4% increase in cruise speed which would improve a 115 KTAS aircraft to 131 KTAS. Probably a bit ambitious but I'd be surprised if one didn't gain 10+ knots in cleaner airframes. A draggy airframe would limit the improvements.

And, yes, this could present an issue with keeping the plane LSA legal.]]>
Warmi wrote:Pow(x,2) but drag cannot be described with a simple equation like that... the answer is , it depends :)

There are real world examples that might directionally demonstrate how increased HP improves performance. Airplains has an STC to upgrade 172's from 160hp to 180hp. They quote the performance improvements:
Speed 138mph to 150mph (9%), Climb 750fpm to 900 fpm (20%) and Ceiling 13K to 17K.

This would be for a 12.5% increase in HP. In this case, 72% (9/12.5) of the power increase is realized in cruise.

If percentages hold and assuming a 20% HP increase then one might get a 14.4% increase in cruise speed which would improve a 115 KTAS aircraft to 131 KTAS. Probably a bit ambitious but I'd be surprised if one didn't gain 10+ knots in cleaner airframes. A draggy airframe would limit the improvements.

And, yes, this could present an issue with keeping the plane LSA legal.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-05-31T11:18:18-04:00 2018-05-31T11:18:18-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51795#p51795
dstclair wrote:
Warmi wrote:Airplains has an STC to upgrade 172's from 160hp to 180hp.


I had the Avcon STC on a 172 that I was a partner in. It's important to realize that these STC's are for swapping O-320 engines with O-360, not getting an additional 20-30hp out of the O-320. The Pitts I recently sold had a Lycon engine, an IO-360 that from the factory produced 180hp but after Lycon futzed with it was dyno tested at 239hp. The common thought is that making those kind of modifications to an engine generally halves the TBO number (which in itself is arbitrary, but that's another discussion).

A lot of very smart engineers have designed Rotax engines and have taken the brand from the stigma of being unreliable ultralight crap to an industry leader with a line of solid engines. It's pretty arrogant for a small company to think they can improve an engine that has become the gold standard in LSA aircraft. That being said, motorheads are motorheads and every single mode of transportation has a huge modification market behind it. There is nothing wrong with going down the experimental path, but understand that is exactly what you are doing. You are replacing parts of a reliable engine with unknowns. None of these aftermarket modifiers have done nearly the lab and field testing Rotax has done, they just don't have the funding, you are their test pilots and mechanics.

None of the manufacturers will sanction the use of these modified engines in their SLSA's, there is no upside to it. Right now, all they have to do is defer to Rotax in their documentation. Edge cannot provide that support to their customers, and the airplane manufacturer is not going to accept any liability of the changes to the Rotax. ELSA is you only option if you want to upgrade firewall forward with these products.

I've been watching the development of Edge's products. I think it would be fun to modify a Rans S-9 or S-10 to see what kind of performance increases are possible in the aerobatic box.]]>
dstclair wrote:
Warmi wrote:Airplains has an STC to upgrade 172's from 160hp to 180hp.


I had the Avcon STC on a 172 that I was a partner in. It's important to realize that these STC's are for swapping O-320 engines with O-360, not getting an additional 20-30hp out of the O-320. The Pitts I recently sold had a Lycon engine, an IO-360 that from the factory produced 180hp but after Lycon futzed with it was dyno tested at 239hp. The common thought is that making those kind of modifications to an engine generally halves the TBO number (which in itself is arbitrary, but that's another discussion).

A lot of very smart engineers have designed Rotax engines and have taken the brand from the stigma of being unreliable ultralight crap to an industry leader with a line of solid engines. It's pretty arrogant for a small company to think they can improve an engine that has become the gold standard in LSA aircraft. That being said, motorheads are motorheads and every single mode of transportation has a huge modification market behind it. There is nothing wrong with going down the experimental path, but understand that is exactly what you are doing. You are replacing parts of a reliable engine with unknowns. None of these aftermarket modifiers have done nearly the lab and field testing Rotax has done, they just don't have the funding, you are their test pilots and mechanics.

None of the manufacturers will sanction the use of these modified engines in their SLSA's, there is no upside to it. Right now, all they have to do is defer to Rotax in their documentation. Edge cannot provide that support to their customers, and the airplane manufacturer is not going to accept any liability of the changes to the Rotax. ELSA is you only option if you want to upgrade firewall forward with these products.

I've been watching the development of Edge's products. I think it would be fun to modify a Rans S-9 or S-10 to see what kind of performance increases are possible in the aerobatic box.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by WDD]]> 2018-05-31T15:31:15-04:00 2018-05-31T15:31:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51797#p51797
1) How much does it cost to add aftermarket EFI to a carb 912 ULS?
2) What about parts and support?
3) Redundancy?
4) Weight?

If there isn't a substantial advantage in performance, cost, and weight, then why bother? Even if there is a substantial improvement, unknown reliability is a big question.]]>

1) How much does it cost to add aftermarket EFI to a carb 912 ULS?
2) What about parts and support?
3) Redundancy?
4) Weight?

If there isn't a substantial advantage in performance, cost, and weight, then why bother? Even if there is a substantial improvement, unknown reliability is a big question.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-01T23:48:58-04:00 2018-06-01T23:48:58-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51819#p51819
FastEddieB wrote:I’m forgetting right now if drag increases as the square or the cube of the speed increase. I think drag increases as the square, but power required as the cube.

Professor? Anyone?


Parasitic drag goes up with the square of velocity. Induced drag goes down with the square of velocity. Optimum L/D ratio (hence, best glide) occurs at whatever velocity the two are equal.

The power required to maintain a given airspeed is a function of where you are on the total drag curve. Except at L/D max, there are two different speeds that require exactly the same power! The lower of the two is the region of reverse command (aka "behind the power curve") where it takes more power to go slower, in order to overcome increased induced drag.]]>
FastEddieB wrote:I’m forgetting right now if drag increases as the square or the cube of the speed increase. I think drag increases as the square, but power required as the cube.

Professor? Anyone?


Parasitic drag goes up with the square of velocity. Induced drag goes down with the square of velocity. Optimum L/D ratio (hence, best glide) occurs at whatever velocity the two are equal.

The power required to maintain a given airspeed is a function of where you are on the total drag curve. Except at L/D max, there are two different speeds that require exactly the same power! The lower of the two is the region of reverse command (aka "behind the power curve") where it takes more power to go slower, in order to overcome increased induced drag.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-01T23:59:10-04:00 2018-06-01T23:59:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51820#p51820
Warmi wrote: right now you need to switch to LSA-E but I , I think, you would also need to placard your experimental to warn people not go any faster than 120 knots


Actually, in the US an ELSA can be modified any way you wish, as long as the mod does not take it out of the LSA performance limits. The Vh limit is defined in terms of airspeed achieved at sea level, on a standard day, at the engine's maximum rated continuous power. Notice that it is not based upon how fast you actually fly.

So, placarding not to fly above 120 kts won't do the trick. Instead, you have to determine what engine RPM would result in 120 kts calibrated (not indicated) airspeed, at sea level, on a standard day (+15 C, 29.92 in hg, zero relative humidity), and then mark that RPM on the tach with a yellow line, and never exceed that power setting except briefly for takeoff.]]>
Warmi wrote: right now you need to switch to LSA-E but I , I think, you would also need to placard your experimental to warn people not go any faster than 120 knots


Actually, in the US an ELSA can be modified any way you wish, as long as the mod does not take it out of the LSA performance limits. The Vh limit is defined in terms of airspeed achieved at sea level, on a standard day, at the engine's maximum rated continuous power. Notice that it is not based upon how fast you actually fly.

So, placarding not to fly above 120 kts won't do the trick. Instead, you have to determine what engine RPM would result in 120 kts calibrated (not indicated) airspeed, at sea level, on a standard day (+15 C, 29.92 in hg, zero relative humidity), and then mark that RPM on the tach with a yellow line, and never exceed that power setting except briefly for takeoff.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-06-02T16:32:50-04:00 2018-06-02T16:32:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51826#p51826
Then what a waste of a turbo and money to get you there.]]>

Then what a waste of a turbo and money to get you there.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-02T17:00:14-04:00 2018-06-02T17:00:14-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51827#p51827
roger lee wrote:“So, placarding not to fly above 120 kts won't do the trick. Instead, you have to determine what engine RPM would result in 120 kts calibrated (not indicated) airspeed, at sea level, on a standard day (+15 C, 29.92 in hg, zero relative humidity), and then mark that RPM on the tach with a yellow line, and never exceed that power setting except briefly for takeoff.”

Then what a waste of a turbo and money to get you there.

Probably, but maybe not if you fly at high altitudes where a normally aspirated engine loses a lot of rpm.]]>
roger lee wrote:“So, placarding not to fly above 120 kts won't do the trick. Instead, you have to determine what engine RPM would result in 120 kts calibrated (not indicated) airspeed, at sea level, on a standard day (+15 C, 29.92 in hg, zero relative humidity), and then mark that RPM on the tach with a yellow line, and never exceed that power setting except briefly for takeoff.”

Then what a waste of a turbo and money to get you there.

Probably, but maybe not if you fly at high altitudes where a normally aspirated engine loses a lot of rpm.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-02T19:46:57-04:00 2018-06-02T19:46:57-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51828#p51828
roger lee wrote:“So, placarding not to fly above 120 kts won't do the trick. Instead, you have to determine what engine RPM would result in 120 kts calibrated (not indicated) airspeed, at sea level, on a standard day (+15 C, 29.92 in hg, zero relative humidity), and then mark that RPM on the tach with a yellow line, and never exceed that power setting except briefly for takeoff.”

Then what a waste of a turbo and money to get you there.


Not a waste at all. You don't add a turbo to go faster at sea level. You add it to be able to maintain sea level power at altitude. Having sea level power at altitude in the thin air lets an airplane go much faster that the normal increase in true airspeed you get from a normally aspirated engine.]]>
roger lee wrote:“So, placarding not to fly above 120 kts won't do the trick. Instead, you have to determine what engine RPM would result in 120 kts calibrated (not indicated) airspeed, at sea level, on a standard day (+15 C, 29.92 in hg, zero relative humidity), and then mark that RPM on the tach with a yellow line, and never exceed that power setting except briefly for takeoff.”

Then what a waste of a turbo and money to get you there.


Not a waste at all. You don't add a turbo to go faster at sea level. You add it to be able to maintain sea level power at altitude. Having sea level power at altitude in the thin air lets an airplane go much faster that the normal increase in true airspeed you get from a normally aspirated engine.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-02T20:07:41-04:00 2018-06-02T20:07:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51829#p51829
<like Tom said...>]]>

<like Tom said...>]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-02T23:57:24-04:00 2018-06-02T23:57:24-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51831#p51831
The turbo-charged engine is a benefit flying faster at higher altitudes, but probably of little to no value flying at low altitudes. For lowlanders, flying with no wind or a tail wind, it would probably be worth-while to climb to higher altitudes to take advantage of the turbo-charged performance and thin air, even for just a 2 hour flight. With a head wind, most would probably stay at a low altitude since winds are usually stronger (but not always) at higher altitudes.

The turbo-charged engine would benefit highlanders almost every flight since they are usually flying at higher altitudes regardless of the wind.

Bottom line, it would depend on the cost. I doubt it would be cost effective unless you live and fly in higher elevations or you have nothing better to do with your money. Obviously, there are exceptions to this generalization.]]>

The turbo-charged engine is a benefit flying faster at higher altitudes, but probably of little to no value flying at low altitudes. For lowlanders, flying with no wind or a tail wind, it would probably be worth-while to climb to higher altitudes to take advantage of the turbo-charged performance and thin air, even for just a 2 hour flight. With a head wind, most would probably stay at a low altitude since winds are usually stronger (but not always) at higher altitudes.

The turbo-charged engine would benefit highlanders almost every flight since they are usually flying at higher altitudes regardless of the wind.

Bottom line, it would depend on the cost. I doubt it would be cost effective unless you live and fly in higher elevations or you have nothing better to do with your money. Obviously, there are exceptions to this generalization.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by jetcat3]]> 2018-06-03T09:28:01-04:00 2018-06-03T09:28:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51837#p51837
The sweet spot is about 5,500ft where we can obtain 125-127 knots true. With a constant speed prop at and above 10,000ft, that true airspeed goes to 140 knots with only 100 HP. Frustrating!]]>

The sweet spot is about 5,500ft where we can obtain 125-127 knots true. With a constant speed prop at and above 10,000ft, that true airspeed goes to 140 knots with only 100 HP. Frustrating!]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-03T09:35:11-04:00 2018-06-03T09:35:11-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51838#p51838 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-03T11:09:14-04:00 2018-06-03T11:09:14-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51841#p51841
Warmi wrote: I can’t even get around that by upgrading to PP certificate.


Well, actually, you can always modify to add a constant speed prop, and fly it with a PP or higher under US rules. Trouble is, it's no longer an LSA, and can never be again. And, you can't change your AWS to ELSA, since it's no longer an LSA. And you can't go to E-AB, since it's factory built. That only leaves experimental exhibition, or experimental R&D, both of which impose too many restrictions.]]>
Warmi wrote: I can’t even get around that by upgrading to PP certificate.


Well, actually, you can always modify to add a constant speed prop, and fly it with a PP or higher under US rules. Trouble is, it's no longer an LSA, and can never be again. And, you can't change your AWS to ELSA, since it's no longer an LSA. And you can't go to E-AB, since it's factory built. That only leaves experimental exhibition, or experimental R&D, both of which impose too many restrictions.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-03T13:11:19-04:00 2018-06-03T13:11:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51846#p51846 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-06-03T18:26:44-04:00 2018-06-03T18:26:44-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51855#p51855 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-03T18:59:03-04:00 2018-06-03T18:59:03-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51856#p51856
roger lee wrote:To make a turbo worth while you really need to have a variable pitch or constant speed prop. This is why Rotax setup the 914 & 915 for variable or constant speed props, not fixed pitched props. Even at high altitude you would still need to change the prop to be efficient.


No doubt, but while not perfect optimization it is still going to have better performance at altitude than a normally asperated engine.]]>
roger lee wrote:To make a turbo worth while you really need to have a variable pitch or constant speed prop. This is why Rotax setup the 914 & 915 for variable or constant speed props, not fixed pitched props. Even at high altitude you would still need to change the prop to be efficient.


No doubt, but while not perfect optimization it is still going to have better performance at altitude than a normally asperated engine.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Turbo-charging the 912ULS :: Reply by jetcat3]]> 2018-06-03T19:01:01-04:00 2018-06-03T19:01:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5096&p=51857#p51857 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Author c162pilot]]> 2018-05-27T18:32:06-04:00 2018-05-27T18:32:06-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51720#p51720 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-27T18:40:08-04:00 2018-05-27T18:40:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51721#p51721
c162pilot wrote:Seeking advice from those of you who have taken your S-LSA to E-LSA. If you purchase a S-LSA aircraft and then transition it into the E-LSA category can you then make changes to the aircraft that takes it beyond S-LSA regulations?


No.

c162pilot wrote:If you purchase a S-LSA aircraft and Example would be changing to a prop that causes the aircraft to exceed 120 KTIS.


You could do that, but would have to placard it in such a way to stay below that speed in normal cruise. RPM limitation would be the most obvious way.]]>
c162pilot wrote:Seeking advice from those of you who have taken your S-LSA to E-LSA. If you purchase a S-LSA aircraft and then transition it into the E-LSA category can you then make changes to the aircraft that takes it beyond S-LSA regulations?


No.

c162pilot wrote:If you purchase a S-LSA aircraft and Example would be changing to a prop that causes the aircraft to exceed 120 KTIS.


You could do that, but would have to placard it in such a way to stay below that speed in normal cruise. RPM limitation would be the most obvious way.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by zodiac flyer]]> 2018-06-05T16:03:02-04:00 2018-06-05T16:03:02-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51878#p51878 This is above my pay grade, hopefully Mel or some other DAR can respond to this.
Dave
N601XP]]>
This is above my pay grade, hopefully Mel or some other DAR can respond to this.
Dave
N601XP]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-05T16:11:46-04:00 2018-06-05T16:11:46-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51880#p51880 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-05T16:58:46-04:00 2018-06-05T16:58:46-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51883#p51883 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by comperini]]> 2018-06-05T17:41:50-04:00 2018-06-05T17:41:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51885#p51885
TimTaylor wrote:I'm guessing it's experimental operating as light sport until it no longer meets the definition of light sport. At that time, it would become experimental. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA, so I assume you would need a Private or better to fly it.


It doesn't change experimental categories. You simply have invalidated your airworthiness certificate. period]]>
TimTaylor wrote:I'm guessing it's experimental operating as light sport until it no longer meets the definition of light sport. At that time, it would become experimental. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA, so I assume you would need a Private or better to fly it.


It doesn't change experimental categories. You simply have invalidated your airworthiness certificate. period]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-05T22:11:19-04:00 2018-06-05T22:11:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51886#p51886 cannot however make any changes that take the aircraft outside the definition of a light sport, that would violate the FAR's. (ie, a constant speed prop, etc.) I dont know what would happen if you did and why.

On the FAA website my registration now reads:

Classification: Experimental
Category: Operating Light-Sport Prev. issued cert under 21.190

There's more to the conversion but that's basically it in a nutshell.]]>
cannot however make any changes that take the aircraft outside the definition of a light sport, that would violate the FAR's. (ie, a constant speed prop, etc.) I dont know what would happen if you did and why.

On the FAA website my registration now reads:

Classification: Experimental
Category: Operating Light-Sport Prev. issued cert under 21.190

There's more to the conversion but that's basically it in a nutshell.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-05T22:26:51-04:00 2018-06-05T22:26:51-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51888#p51888 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: S-LSA converted to E-LSA :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-06T10:23:35-04:00 2018-06-06T10:23:35-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094&p=51892#p51892
TimTaylor wrote:There are two question raised here. Converting from S-LSA to E-LSA, not a problem. Making a modification that takes it out of the LSA definition, is a problem. For example, if you did something that raised the stall speed above LSA limits or put on a constant speed prop.


Correct Tim, in my opinion most make the switch to E-LSA to be able to make minor changes and do a lot of the work on their own plane. I also switched because my manufacturer, Czech Sport Aircraft, does not issue LOA/MRA’s for any reason. I simply wanted to upgrade my outdated 2007 avionics and the manufacturer would not allow it. In a nutshell, they suck.

I have no intention of making changes that would take my plane out of the definition of a light sport. Since I currently only hold a SP rating and I don’t even know what would happen if I did and what the new category would be. I also don’t think others are making these changes either, it’s really all about the freedom from the manufacturer and their rules. :mrgreen:]]>
TimTaylor wrote:There are two question raised here. Converting from S-LSA to E-LSA, not a problem. Making a modification that takes it out of the LSA definition, is a problem. For example, if you did something that raised the stall speed above LSA limits or put on a constant speed prop.


Correct Tim, in my opinion most make the switch to E-LSA to be able to make minor changes and do a lot of the work on their own plane. I also switched because my manufacturer, Czech Sport Aircraft, does not issue LOA/MRA’s for any reason. I simply wanted to upgrade my outdated 2007 avionics and the manufacturer would not allow it. In a nutshell, they suck.

I have no intention of making changes that would take my plane out of the definition of a light sport. Since I currently only hold a SP rating and I don’t even know what would happen if I did and what the new category would be. I also don’t think others are making these changes either, it’s really all about the freedom from the manufacturer and their rules. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can a designation be changed :: Reply by ScottyB]]> 2018-06-07T12:35:00-04:00 2018-06-07T12:35:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5041&p=51899#p51899 Look it up on YouTube it's called Little Rascal]]> Look it up on YouTube it's called Little Rascal]]> <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can a designation be changed :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-06-07T12:56:48-04:00 2018-06-07T12:56:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5041&p=51902#p51902 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Ground adjustable prop? :: Author ScottyB]]> 2018-06-07T14:38:40-04:00 2018-06-07T14:38:40-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5103&p=51915#p51915 Could that prop be used in a light sport plane if the adjustment switch was located in the engine compartment. Not accessible to the pilot in flight?
Could be used a static adjustment...]]>
Could that prop be used in a light sport plane if the adjustment switch was located in the engine compartment. Not accessible to the pilot in flight?
Could be used a static adjustment...]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Ground adjustable prop? :: Reply by comperini]]> 2018-06-07T15:27:20-04:00 2018-06-07T15:27:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5103&p=51916#p51916 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Author skyleader]]> 2018-06-07T11:39:56-04:00 2018-06-07T11:39:56-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51896#p51896 If one buys a pre-built LSA is it permissible to convert to E-LSA with a speed increase beyond 120 kts.? (Question refers to US based LSAs.)
If so, what are medical requirements (if pilot has pvt/comm certificate) to fly the E-LSA? Driver's license? Basic Med? Class 3?]]>
If one buys a pre-built LSA is it permissible to convert to E-LSA with a speed increase beyond 120 kts.? (Question refers to US based LSAs.)
If so, what are medical requirements (if pilot has pvt/comm certificate) to fly the E-LSA? Driver's license? Basic Med? Class 3?]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T12:24:08-04:00 2018-06-07T12:24:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51897#p51897 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094#p51720]]> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5094#p51720]]> <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by skyleader]]> 2018-06-07T12:33:13-04:00 2018-06-07T12:33:13-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51898#p51898 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T12:42:08-04:00 2018-06-07T12:42:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51900#p51900 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-06-07T12:45:56-04:00 2018-06-07T12:45:56-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51901#p51901
Long answer from the FAR's:

§21.191 Experimental certificates.
Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:
(i) Operating light-sport aircraft. Operating a light-sport aircraft that—
(2) Has been assembled—
(i) From an aircraft kit for which the applicant can provide the information required by §21.193(e); and
(ii) In accordance with manufacturer's assembly instructions that meet an applicable consensus standard;


When you look at 21.193(e) you see:

§21.193 Experimental certificates: general.
An applicant for an experimental certificate must submit the following information:
(e) In the case of a light-sport aircraft assembled from a kit to be certificated in accordance with §21.191(i)(2), an applicant must provide the following:
(1) Evidence that an aircraft of the same make and model was manufactured and assembled by the aircraft kit manufacturer and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.
(4) The manufacturer's statement of compliance for the aircraft kit used in the aircraft assembly that meets §21.190(c), except that instead of meeting §21.190(c)(7), the statement must identify assembly instructions for the aircraft that meet an applicable consensus standard.


Then you hop back to 21.190(c) to read:

§21.190 Issue of a special airworthiness certificate for a light-sport category aircraft.
(c) Manufacturer's statement of compliance for light-sport category aircraft. The manufacturer's statement of compliance required in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section must—
(2) State that the aircraft meets the provisions of the identified consensus standard;


What does all that mean? When an aircraft is approved for sale as a SLSA, it meets the consensus standard as set forth by the ATSM. If that manufacturer wants to offer an ELSA, then that aircraft must be identical to the SLSA. When you move your SLSA to ELSA you are, by default, meeting that standard as the ELSA is identical to the SLSA. You can now do repairs and alterations, that do not affect its LSA compliance status, without factory oversight or approval.

So, if your modification changes the following:

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:
(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.


Then you can not do the change.

It's important to note, your question asks "...fly faster than 120 kts.?" That leads me to believe that you, like many others, have the misconception that sport pilots are not allowed to fly faster than 120kts anywhere, any time. That is not true, the aircraft have to meet the above certification standard, but conditions change, and with that speeds that the aircraft are capable of.]]>

Long answer from the FAR's:

§21.191 Experimental certificates.
Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:
(i) Operating light-sport aircraft. Operating a light-sport aircraft that—
(2) Has been assembled—
(i) From an aircraft kit for which the applicant can provide the information required by §21.193(e); and
(ii) In accordance with manufacturer's assembly instructions that meet an applicable consensus standard;


When you look at 21.193(e) you see:

§21.193 Experimental certificates: general.
An applicant for an experimental certificate must submit the following information:
(e) In the case of a light-sport aircraft assembled from a kit to be certificated in accordance with §21.191(i)(2), an applicant must provide the following:
(1) Evidence that an aircraft of the same make and model was manufactured and assembled by the aircraft kit manufacturer and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.
(4) The manufacturer's statement of compliance for the aircraft kit used in the aircraft assembly that meets §21.190(c), except that instead of meeting §21.190(c)(7), the statement must identify assembly instructions for the aircraft that meet an applicable consensus standard.


Then you hop back to 21.190(c) to read:

§21.190 Issue of a special airworthiness certificate for a light-sport category aircraft.
(c) Manufacturer's statement of compliance for light-sport category aircraft. The manufacturer's statement of compliance required in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section must—
(2) State that the aircraft meets the provisions of the identified consensus standard;


What does all that mean? When an aircraft is approved for sale as a SLSA, it meets the consensus standard as set forth by the ATSM. If that manufacturer wants to offer an ELSA, then that aircraft must be identical to the SLSA. When you move your SLSA to ELSA you are, by default, meeting that standard as the ELSA is identical to the SLSA. You can now do repairs and alterations, that do not affect its LSA compliance status, without factory oversight or approval.

So, if your modification changes the following:

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:
(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.


Then you can not do the change.

It's important to note, your question asks "...fly faster than 120 kts.?" That leads me to believe that you, like many others, have the misconception that sport pilots are not allowed to fly faster than 120kts anywhere, any time. That is not true, the aircraft have to meet the above certification standard, but conditions change, and with that speeds that the aircraft are capable of.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T12:59:33-04:00 2018-06-07T12:59:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51903#p51903 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by skyleader]]> 2018-06-07T13:04:27-04:00 2018-06-07T13:04:27-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51904#p51904 Thanks for providing clarity upon this issue. I was hoping there was a way to modify an LSA (with Rotax 915) to cruise in the 140 knot area.
Specifically, I am interested in ordering a Bristell RG with the 914 engine, preferably the 915 engine if available. Don't see any cruise speed data on those options yet. Thanks again.]]>
Thanks for providing clarity upon this issue. I was hoping there was a way to modify an LSA (with Rotax 915) to cruise in the 140 knot area.
Specifically, I am interested in ordering a Bristell RG with the 914 engine, preferably the 915 engine if available. Don't see any cruise speed data on those options yet. Thanks again.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-07T13:10:27-04:00 2018-06-07T13:10:27-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51905#p51905 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-06-07T13:12:15-04:00 2018-06-07T13:12:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51906#p51906
§21.191 Experimental certificates.
Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:

(a) Research and development. Testing new aircraft design concepts, new aircraft equipment, new aircraft installations, new aircraft operating techniques, or new uses for aircraft.


The OP made no mention of doing an R&D project and the aircraft would have to be returned to it's starting certification once the project is complete.

(b) Showing compliance with regulations. Conducting flight tests and other operations to show compliance with the airworthiness regulations including flights to show compliance for issuance of type and supplemental type certificates, flights to substantiate major design changes, and flights to show compliance with the function and reliability requirements of the regulations.

The very suggestion was born from deviating from existing regulations, so this doesn't fit.

(c) Crew training. Training of the applicant's flight crews.

Crew training in an LSA? Doubtful.

(d) Exhibition. Exhibiting the aircraft's flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics at air shows, motion picture, television, and similar productions, and the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency, including (for persons exhibiting aircraft) flying to and from such air shows and productions.

This one gets tossed out a lot, but I'm not seeing an everyday LSA fitting in any of the descriptions here.

(e) Air racing. Participating in air races, including (for such participants) practicing for such air races and flying to and from racing events.

Reno? Doubtful. Maybe SARL.

(f) Market surveys. Use of aircraft for purposes of conducting market surveys, sales demonstrations, and customer crew training only as provided in §21.195.

No mention if the idea behind the mods was to sell them.

(g) Operating amateur-built aircraft. Operating an aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation.

Nope, not 51%.

(h) Operating primary kit-built aircraft. Operating a primary category aircraft that meets the criteria of §21.24(a)(1) that was assembled by a person from a kit manufactured by the holder of a production certificate for that kit, without the supervision and quality control of the production certificate holder under §21.184(a).

Nope, not a kit.

(i) Operating light-sport aircraft. Operating a light-sport aircraft that—

This is where it would be after ELSA conversion.]]>

§21.191 Experimental certificates.
Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:

(a) Research and development. Testing new aircraft design concepts, new aircraft equipment, new aircraft installations, new aircraft operating techniques, or new uses for aircraft.


The OP made no mention of doing an R&D project and the aircraft would have to be returned to it's starting certification once the project is complete.

(b) Showing compliance with regulations. Conducting flight tests and other operations to show compliance with the airworthiness regulations including flights to show compliance for issuance of type and supplemental type certificates, flights to substantiate major design changes, and flights to show compliance with the function and reliability requirements of the regulations.

The very suggestion was born from deviating from existing regulations, so this doesn't fit.

(c) Crew training. Training of the applicant's flight crews.

Crew training in an LSA? Doubtful.

(d) Exhibition. Exhibiting the aircraft's flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics at air shows, motion picture, television, and similar productions, and the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency, including (for persons exhibiting aircraft) flying to and from such air shows and productions.

This one gets tossed out a lot, but I'm not seeing an everyday LSA fitting in any of the descriptions here.

(e) Air racing. Participating in air races, including (for such participants) practicing for such air races and flying to and from racing events.

Reno? Doubtful. Maybe SARL.

(f) Market surveys. Use of aircraft for purposes of conducting market surveys, sales demonstrations, and customer crew training only as provided in §21.195.

No mention if the idea behind the mods was to sell them.

(g) Operating amateur-built aircraft. Operating an aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation.

Nope, not 51%.

(h) Operating primary kit-built aircraft. Operating a primary category aircraft that meets the criteria of §21.24(a)(1) that was assembled by a person from a kit manufactured by the holder of a production certificate for that kit, without the supervision and quality control of the production certificate holder under §21.184(a).

Nope, not a kit.

(i) Operating light-sport aircraft. Operating a light-sport aircraft that—

This is where it would be after ELSA conversion.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T13:19:36-04:00 2018-06-07T13:23:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51907#p51907
"Exhibition: to exhibit an aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics for air shows, motion pictures, television, and similar productions, and for the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency."

Who's to say every flight is not for maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency?]]>

"Exhibition: to exhibit an aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics for air shows, motion pictures, television, and similar productions, and for the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency."

Who's to say every flight is not for maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency?]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-06-07T13:23:33-04:00 2018-06-07T13:23:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51908#p51908
If the mods are to improve performance to support an air show routine, or for a movie, yeah you could possibly get FSDO approval.

If the mods are to just get to the $100 burger faster, not going to happen.]]>

If the mods are to improve performance to support an air show routine, or for a movie, yeah you could possibly get FSDO approval.

If the mods are to just get to the $100 burger faster, not going to happen.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T13:27:36-04:00 2018-06-07T13:27:36-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51909#p51909
smutny wrote:That is why I stated that Exp-Exhibition gets suggested a lot.

If the mods are to improve performance to support an air show routine, or for a movie, yeah you could possibly get FSDO approval.

If the mods are to just get to the $100 burger faster, not going to happen.


Maybe, maybe not.]]>
smutny wrote:That is why I stated that Exp-Exhibition gets suggested a lot.

If the mods are to improve performance to support an air show routine, or for a movie, yeah you could possibly get FSDO approval.

If the mods are to just get to the $100 burger faster, not going to happen.


Maybe, maybe not.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-06-07T13:31:56-04:00 2018-06-07T13:31:56-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51910#p51910
TimTaylor wrote:Maybe, maybe not.


Not. And I'll send the first person that can show me paperwork to the contrary (ELSA -> Experimental Exhibition) dated 2016 or thereafter, for use other than called out in the FAR's, a dinner for two to Ruth Chris Steakhouse (or equivalent local establishment).

No expiration date on this offer.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:Maybe, maybe not.


Not. And I'll send the first person that can show me paperwork to the contrary (ELSA -> Experimental Exhibition) dated 2016 or thereafter, for use other than called out in the FAR's, a dinner for two to Ruth Chris Steakhouse (or equivalent local establishment).

No expiration date on this offer.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-07T13:34:55-04:00 2018-06-07T13:34:55-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51911#p51911
skyleader wrote:John-
Thanks for providing clarity upon this issue. I was hoping there was a way to modify an LSA (with Rotax 915) to cruise in the 140 knot area.
Specifically, I am interested in ordering a Bristell RG with the 914 engine, preferably the 915 engine if available. Don't see any cruise speed data on those options yet. Thanks again.

I think you just gonna have to order it as E-AB ,if they offfer that option - for instance the Airplane Factory offers all 3 for the line of Sling 2/4 airplanes: LSA/E-LSA or E-AB with higher gross etc ...

http://www.airplanefactory.com/aircraft/sling-2-kit/]]>
skyleader wrote:John-
Thanks for providing clarity upon this issue. I was hoping there was a way to modify an LSA (with Rotax 915) to cruise in the 140 knot area.
Specifically, I am interested in ordering a Bristell RG with the 914 engine, preferably the 915 engine if available. Don't see any cruise speed data on those options yet. Thanks again.

I think you just gonna have to order it as E-AB ,if they offfer that option - for instance the Airplane Factory offers all 3 for the line of Sling 2/4 airplanes: LSA/E-LSA or E-AB with higher gross etc ...

http://www.airplanefactory.com/aircraft/sling-2-kit/]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-06-07T13:39:05-04:00 2018-06-07T13:39:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51912#p51912
TimTaylor wrote:"Exhibition: to exhibit an aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics for air shows, motion pictures, television, and similar productions, and for the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency."

Who's to say every flight is not for maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency?


It says "...and for..." not "...or for...". So the aircraft must meet the previous criteria in order for maintenance and proficiency flights.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:"Exhibition: to exhibit an aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics for air shows, motion pictures, television, and similar productions, and for the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency."

Who's to say every flight is not for maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency?


It says "...and for..." not "...or for...". So the aircraft must meet the previous criteria in order for maintenance and proficiency flights.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T13:45:33-04:00 2018-06-07T13:45:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51913#p51913
Again, I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea or makes sense. I would sell the LSA and purchase a Mooney. If you don't like LSA limitations, don't purchase an LSA.]]>

Again, I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea or makes sense. I would sell the LSA and purchase a Mooney. If you don't like LSA limitations, don't purchase an LSA.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by comperini]]> 2018-06-07T14:22:48-04:00 2018-06-07T14:22:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51914#p51914
TimTaylor wrote:I'm not sure you are correct when you say, "you cannot do the change." If you take it out of LSA limits, it MIGHT be possible for it to fall within some other classification, but it would no longer be an LSA and could not be flown by a Sport Pilot or someone operating under Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.


If you take it out of LSA limits, then your airworthiness certificate is invalid, And the plane illegal to fly, until a new airworthiness in some other subcategory (other than E-LSA) is issued]]>
TimTaylor wrote:I'm not sure you are correct when you say, "you cannot do the change." If you take it out of LSA limits, it MIGHT be possible for it to fall within some other classification, but it would no longer be an LSA and could not be flown by a Sport Pilot or someone operating under Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.


If you take it out of LSA limits, then your airworthiness certificate is invalid, And the plane illegal to fly, until a new airworthiness in some other subcategory (other than E-LSA) is issued]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T15:28:16-04:00 2018-06-07T15:28:16-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51917#p51917
comperini wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I'm not sure you are correct when you say, "you cannot do the change." If you take it out of LSA limits, it MIGHT be possible for it to fall within some other classification, but it would no longer be an LSA and could not be flown by a Sport Pilot or someone operating under Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.


If you take it out of LSA limits, then your airworthiness certificate is invalid, And the plane illegal to fly, until a new airworthiness in some other subcategory (other than E-LSA) is issued

Correct]]>
comperini wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I'm not sure you are correct when you say, "you cannot do the change." If you take it out of LSA limits, it MIGHT be possible for it to fall within some other classification, but it would no longer be an LSA and could not be flown by a Sport Pilot or someone operating under Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.


If you take it out of LSA limits, then your airworthiness certificate is invalid, And the plane illegal to fly, until a new airworthiness in some other subcategory (other than E-LSA) is issued

Correct]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by c162pilot]]> 2018-06-07T15:46:07-04:00 2018-06-07T15:46:07-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51918#p51918 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by comperini]]> 2018-06-07T15:51:17-04:00 2018-06-07T15:51:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51919#p51919
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time.


By definition, you should also be able to order it as an E-LSA at the time of purchase.]]>
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time.


By definition, you should also be able to order it as an E-LSA at the time of purchase.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-07T16:03:08-04:00 2018-06-07T16:03:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51920#p51920
c162pilot wrote:......There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time.


You dont need that option, you simply order the S-LSA version and convert it yourself "at another point in time" with your local DAR that's qualified to do so. :mrgreen:]]>
c162pilot wrote:......There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time.


You dont need that option, you simply order the S-LSA version and convert it yourself "at another point in time" with your local DAR that's qualified to do so. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-07T18:24:11-04:00 2018-06-07T18:24:11-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51922#p51922
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.]]>
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T18:31:17-04:00 2018-06-07T18:31:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51923#p51923
3Dreaming wrote:
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.]]>
3Dreaming wrote:
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-07T18:48:20-04:00 2018-06-07T18:48:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51924#p51924
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-07T18:49:54-04:00 2018-06-07T18:49:54-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51925#p51925 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-07T18:52:56-04:00 2018-06-07T18:52:56-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51926#p51926
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-07T18:54:09-04:00 2018-06-07T18:54:09-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51927#p51927
Warmi wrote:What is so different about motorized gliders that makes medicals unnecessary ?


it is classified as a glider instead of airplane. No medical is required for a glider.]]>
Warmi wrote:What is so different about motorized gliders that makes medicals unnecessary ?


it is classified as a glider instead of airplane. No medical is required for a glider.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T18:58:45-04:00 2018-06-07T18:58:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51928#p51928
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.]]>
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-07T19:03:11-04:00 2018-06-07T19:03:11-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51929#p51929
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.


My point was, I don't think you can certify a C162 or CTLS or CTSW as a motor glider just because you want to or because you have modified it and it no longer meets the definition of an LSA.]]>
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.


My point was, I don't think you can certify a C162 or CTLS or CTSW as a motor glider just because you want to or because you have modified it and it no longer meets the definition of an LSA.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-07T23:32:57-04:00 2018-06-07T23:32:57-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51930#p51930
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.


I do know a recreational pilot. I also provide it as an option to students who ask about a sport pilot rating purely from a cost perspective.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.


I do know a recreational pilot. I also provide it as an option to students who ask about a sport pilot rating purely from a cost perspective.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-07T23:57:33-04:00 2018-06-07T23:57:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51931#p51931
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.


My point was, I don't think you can certify a C162 or CTLS or CTSW as a motor glider just because you want to or because you have modified it and it no longer meets the definition of an LSA.


You are correct that you can't modify a LSA so that exceeds LSA limits, then change its certification to a motor glider.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.


My point was, I don't think you can certify a C162 or CTLS or CTSW as a motor glider just because you want to or because you have modified it and it no longer meets the definition of an LSA.


You are correct that you can't modify a LSA so that exceeds LSA limits, then change its certification to a motor glider.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-08T00:46:54-04:00 2018-06-08T00:46:54-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51932#p51932
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.


I do know a recreational pilot. I also provide it as an option to students who ask about a sport pilot rating purely from a cost perspective.


I'm sure there are some.]]>
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.


I do know a recreational pilot. I also provide it as an option to students who ask about a sport pilot rating purely from a cost perspective.


I'm sure there are some.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-08T06:06:52-04:00 2018-06-08T06:06:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51933#p51933 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-08T08:56:37-04:00 2018-06-08T08:56:37-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51934#p51934
drseti wrote:Rec Pilot is the second best kept secret in aviation. (Sport Pilot is apparently the first best kept secret...)


Agreed, especially with basic med. All of the sport pilot privileges with a little extra training, plus you can fly several of the classic GA airplanes like a Cessna 150/172 that a sport pilot cannot.]]>
drseti wrote:Rec Pilot is the second best kept secret in aviation. (Sport Pilot is apparently the first best kept secret...)


Agreed, especially with basic med. All of the sport pilot privileges with a little extra training, plus you can fly several of the classic GA airplanes like a Cessna 150/172 that a sport pilot cannot.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-08T09:36:43-04:00 2018-06-08T09:36:43-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51935#p51935
There are 300 000+ pilots in the US - either most of these 300 000 folks are clueless or the Rec Cert is a complete waste of money and time ... I think the market has spoken .. and very , very loudly at that :-)]]>

There are 300 000+ pilots in the US - either most of these 300 000 folks are clueless or the Rec Cert is a complete waste of money and time ... I think the market has spoken .. and very , very loudly at that :-)]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-06-08T10:53:20-04:00 2018-06-08T10:53:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51936#p51936
I don't see any advantage to a rec pilot certificate. Limited compared to private, yet still requires a medical...]]>

I don't see any advantage to a rec pilot certificate. Limited compared to private, yet still requires a medical...]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by comperini]]> 2018-06-08T11:37:52-04:00 2018-06-08T11:37:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51938#p51938
TimTaylor wrote:I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Several years ago, a person near me, got his single place quicksilver sprint certificated as a motor glider.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Several years ago, a person near me, got his single place quicksilver sprint certificated as a motor glider.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-08T13:30:37-04:00 2018-06-08T13:30:37-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51940#p51940
MrMorden wrote:I know one recreational pilot. IIRC there are leas than a hundred of them in the whole US.

I don't see any advantage to a rec pilot certificate. Limited compared to private, yet still requires a medical...


I agree.]]>
MrMorden wrote:I know one recreational pilot. IIRC there are leas than a hundred of them in the whole US.

I don't see any advantage to a rec pilot certificate. Limited compared to private, yet still requires a medical...


I agree.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-08T14:08:34-04:00 2018-06-08T14:08:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5102&p=51941#p51941
Sport Pilot was met by the same flight instructors in much the same manner.]]>

Sport Pilot was met by the same flight instructors in much the same manner.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Purchasing choices :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-29T21:20:04-04:00 2018-05-29T21:20:04-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4776&p=51775#p51775
Warmi wrote:Btw. Got an insurance quote ( via AOPA ) for a $100 k hull coverage + option for other pilots , private or better with 300 hours and 5 in make/model for $2050 per year.
Keep in mind that I am a student pilot with only 35 hours so I think it is a good deal.
It started out with almost $4000 per year heheh


This year, after getting my license and going up to 105 hours, my insurance, same terms and everything, is down to $1700...]]>
Warmi wrote:Btw. Got an insurance quote ( via AOPA ) for a $100 k hull coverage + option for other pilots , private or better with 300 hours and 5 in make/model for $2050 per year.
Keep in mind that I am a student pilot with only 35 hours so I think it is a good deal.
It started out with almost $4000 per year heheh


This year, after getting my license and going up to 105 hours, my insurance, same terms and everything, is down to $1700...]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Purchasing choices :: Reply by cam737]]> 2018-06-08T15:01:28-04:00 2018-06-08T15:01:28-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4776&p=51942#p51942 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Great S-LSA Support :: Author dstclair]]> 2018-06-11T12:00:48-04:00 2018-06-11T12:00:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5105&p=51956#p51956
Anyway, I had a trip planned this morning that could be moved if necessary but would be inconvenient. I could not find a TL-Ultralight approved battery locally and could not find a on online source that could get me a battery by Monday morning. I did a some research and found a suitable replacement that was available locally as well as US nation-wide. It was listed as a PC310 replacement and had the same or better specs than the other approved batteries.

I texted Bill Canino at SportAir at 5pm on Saturday with a request to add Duracell Ultra 9-BS Power Sports battery to the approved list. He evaluated the information and agreed to add it. I ordered my battery online at Batteries Plus Bulbs, picked it up the following day and installed it. Come Monday morning I was on my merry way.

This is not to say that Bill approves all requests. He is very diligent and does ensure the products on the list are the right choice for the fleet. He does do a good job of updating the list as technology evolves.

Thanks Bill!]]>

Anyway, I had a trip planned this morning that could be moved if necessary but would be inconvenient. I could not find a TL-Ultralight approved battery locally and could not find a on online source that could get me a battery by Monday morning. I did a some research and found a suitable replacement that was available locally as well as US nation-wide. It was listed as a PC310 replacement and had the same or better specs than the other approved batteries.

I texted Bill Canino at SportAir at 5pm on Saturday with a request to add Duracell Ultra 9-BS Power Sports battery to the approved list. He evaluated the information and agreed to add it. I ordered my battery online at Batteries Plus Bulbs, picked it up the following day and installed it. Come Monday morning I was on my merry way.

This is not to say that Bill approves all requests. He is very diligent and does ensure the products on the list are the right choice for the fleet. He does do a good job of updating the list as technology evolves.

Thanks Bill!]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Great S-LSA Support :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-11T12:21:26-04:00 2018-06-11T12:21:26-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5105&p=51958#p51958 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Sling 4TSi :: Author Warmi]]> 2018-06-11T19:16:50-04:00 2018-06-11T19:16:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5107&p=51968#p51968

——————————

THE AIRPLANE FACTORY UNVEILS ITS EAGERLY ANTICIPATED SLING TSI

The eagerly anticipated Sling TSi recently made its public debut in South Africa and will be unveiled at the upcoming EAA Airventure at Oshkosh, Wisconsin, USA in July 2018.
The Sling TSi, like its predecessors, has received critical acclaim for its capabilities, effortless handling and all-round functionality. The name ‘TSi’ is a homage to its Rotax 915 iS engine and marks a new chapter in TAF’s vision to build the world’s most loved light aircraft.
Mike Blyth, founder of The Airplane Factory had this to say of their latest development; “The brand-new Sling TSi stands out as the new standard for 4-seat experimental aircraft. It outperforms most others in every way. Compared to previous models it has increased speed, increased rate of climb, longer range, increased carrying capacity, more space and greater comfort all whilst flying the best handling aircraft in its class!”
The Sling TSi is powered by a 141hp Rotax 915 iS Fuel Injected Turbo Charged Engine burning just 8 gph (31 lt/hr) in the cruise. During test flights, the aircraft reached a maximum straight and level speed of 155 KTAS and has a range of 800 Nm. With its luxurious cabin, low fuel burn and Garmin avionics, it will please private pilots and flight-training organisations alike. This 4-place aircraft comes standard with a bespoke 3 blade Airmaster constant speed propeller, Garmin 10 inch G3X touch EFIS, Garmin G5 backup EFIS, Garmin GTR 200 COM radio, Garmin GTX 35R remote transponder, Garmin autopilot system with GMC 307 autopilot controller and PM 1000 II 4-place intercom.
The completely redesigned exterior features high quality materials and design integrity, as well as great practicality and a range of technologies to improve comfort, convenience and safety.
Enhancements include:
• New flush rivet forward fuselage, wings and empennage.
• New canopy design with improved doors, bonded windscreen and redesigned larger rear window area.
• New dash with larger instrument panel.
• New low drag airfoil shaped main gear leg.
• New larger low drag wheel spats.
• New cowling design.
• New interior upholstery and seat design.
• New vertical stabiliser fairing design.
The result is an aircraft with an uncompromising mission: To offer unrivalled performance, safety and reliability in the hands of all pilots no matter the mission.]]>


——————————

THE AIRPLANE FACTORY UNVEILS ITS EAGERLY ANTICIPATED SLING TSI

The eagerly anticipated Sling TSi recently made its public debut in South Africa and will be unveiled at the upcoming EAA Airventure at Oshkosh, Wisconsin, USA in July 2018.
The Sling TSi, like its predecessors, has received critical acclaim for its capabilities, effortless handling and all-round functionality. The name ‘TSi’ is a homage to its Rotax 915 iS engine and marks a new chapter in TAF’s vision to build the world’s most loved light aircraft.
Mike Blyth, founder of The Airplane Factory had this to say of their latest development; “The brand-new Sling TSi stands out as the new standard for 4-seat experimental aircraft. It outperforms most others in every way. Compared to previous models it has increased speed, increased rate of climb, longer range, increased carrying capacity, more space and greater comfort all whilst flying the best handling aircraft in its class!”
The Sling TSi is powered by a 141hp Rotax 915 iS Fuel Injected Turbo Charged Engine burning just 8 gph (31 lt/hr) in the cruise. During test flights, the aircraft reached a maximum straight and level speed of 155 KTAS and has a range of 800 Nm. With its luxurious cabin, low fuel burn and Garmin avionics, it will please private pilots and flight-training organisations alike. This 4-place aircraft comes standard with a bespoke 3 blade Airmaster constant speed propeller, Garmin 10 inch G3X touch EFIS, Garmin G5 backup EFIS, Garmin GTR 200 COM radio, Garmin GTX 35R remote transponder, Garmin autopilot system with GMC 307 autopilot controller and PM 1000 II 4-place intercom.
The completely redesigned exterior features high quality materials and design integrity, as well as great practicality and a range of technologies to improve comfort, convenience and safety.
Enhancements include:
• New flush rivet forward fuselage, wings and empennage.
• New canopy design with improved doors, bonded windscreen and redesigned larger rear window area.
• New dash with larger instrument panel.
• New low drag airfoil shaped main gear leg.
• New larger low drag wheel spats.
• New cowling design.
• New interior upholstery and seat design.
• New vertical stabiliser fairing design.
The result is an aircraft with an uncompromising mission: To offer unrivalled performance, safety and reliability in the hands of all pilots no matter the mission.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Sling 4TSi :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-11T19:45:19-04:00 2018-06-11T19:45:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5107&p=51969#p51969 <![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Kitfox STi 915 iS :: Author jetcat3]]> 2018-06-12T23:34:36-04:00 2018-06-12T23:34:36-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5112&p=51988#p51988
https://youtu.be/y7xU_2Zzbb0]]>

https://youtu.be/y7xU_2Zzbb0]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Batteries :: Author dstclair]]> 2018-06-11T12:18:18-04:00 2018-06-11T12:18:18-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51957#p51957
My relatively high dollar Odyssey battery died recently after 4 years which, to me, is a pretty typical lifespan. The battery did its job. The PC310 runs about $170.

My original low-end Varta battery died after 4 1/2 years and did its job as well. I believe it costs around $75.

As per the other thread, I now have a Duracell Ultra Power Sports battery that has a 2 year warranty and it ran $90. It is a 'new' design and supposedly has 'superior vibration resistance' and 'lower internal resistance for higher discharge rates for faster starts'. We'll see if that helps its life but in the end, this just needs to last the warranty period to be the same price/year as the Odyssey. And I can get it about anywhere if it dies while I'm away from home.

I'm aware that the Odyssey is a considered a great battery but given it's job is to start the plane and batteries at half the price do it just as well, I just don't see the advantage. YMMV.]]>

My relatively high dollar Odyssey battery died recently after 4 years which, to me, is a pretty typical lifespan. The battery did its job. The PC310 runs about $170.

My original low-end Varta battery died after 4 1/2 years and did its job as well. I believe it costs around $75.

As per the other thread, I now have a Duracell Ultra Power Sports battery that has a 2 year warranty and it ran $90. It is a 'new' design and supposedly has 'superior vibration resistance' and 'lower internal resistance for higher discharge rates for faster starts'. We'll see if that helps its life but in the end, this just needs to last the warranty period to be the same price/year as the Odyssey. And I can get it about anywhere if it dies while I'm away from home.

I'm aware that the Odyssey is a considered a great battery but given it's job is to start the plane and batteries at half the price do it just as well, I just don't see the advantage. YMMV.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-11T18:14:44-04:00 2018-06-11T18:14:44-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51960#p51960
I decided to give the Odyssey PC680 a try as it is the same price as the Duracell Ultra Power Sport version you bought and a direct replacement for the PC680 size. Both are $129 so the price doesn't come into play.

So far the Odyssey has been amazing for starting power, WOW, what a difference from my old battery. As you say, time will tell. :mrgreen:]]>

I decided to give the Odyssey PC680 a try as it is the same price as the Duracell Ultra Power Sport version you bought and a direct replacement for the PC680 size. Both are $129 so the price doesn't come into play.

So far the Odyssey has been amazing for starting power, WOW, what a difference from my old battery. As you say, time will tell. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-06-11T18:48:24-04:00 2018-06-11T18:48:24-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51966#p51966

At least the warranty is full replacement for me -- which means if the battery fails in 23.9 months, I get a new one for free. Of course, if it only lasts a year the reliability angle would not be worth the risk. Hopefully, the Sports Power version is more suited to our type of use.]]>


At least the warranty is full replacement for me -- which means if the battery fails in 23.9 months, I get a new one for free. Of course, if it only lasts a year the reliability angle would not be worth the risk. Hopefully, the Sports Power version is more suited to our type of use.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-11T19:49:26-04:00 2018-06-11T19:49:26-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51970#p51970

I wanted to try the Odyssey as I heard a lot of good things about them. :mrgreen:]]>


I wanted to try the Odyssey as I heard a lot of good things about them. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-11T20:20:03-04:00 2018-06-11T20:20:03-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51971#p51971
Bear in mind that the Odyssey is an AGM battery, so requires a different charger than those used for lead acid.]]>

Bear in mind that the Odyssey is an AGM battery, so requires a different charger than those used for lead acid.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-11T21:24:39-04:00 2018-06-11T21:24:39-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51972#p51972
Hopefully I'll have a good report a year from now........and a year from then and maybe another. :mrgreen:]]>

Hopefully I'll have a good report a year from now........and a year from then and maybe another. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-11T21:42:04-04:00 2018-06-11T21:42:04-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51974#p51974
drseti wrote:
Bear in mind that the Odyssey is an AGM battery, so requires a different charger than those used for lead acid.


There's no doubt the right charger optimizes charging.

But in real life, I've used all sorts of chargers to charge lead acid flooded cell, AGM and even lithium-iron batteries to good effect.

My reasoning is that consider how an aircraft battery of any description normally gets charged - that is, in the airplane from a generator or alternator through a pretty dumb voltage regulator that seems not to care what kind of battery its dumping its voltage into. So, the different types can't be all that finicky, can they?

That said, buying the right charger is probably not a bad idea. The wrong style left unattended for a long time may charge in an off-optimum manner, and could even possible damage the battery.

Two more points:

1) I've had great service from Odyssey batteries, in both motorcycles and the Sky Arrow.

2) Best practice is to always remove batteries from an airplane before charging. I know many or possibly most don't, but planes have been extensively damaged by exploding/burning/leaking batteries from rogue chargers or shorts or whatever. I've had two batteries explode, and its not pretty. And both were flooded cell being charged with an appropriate charger. This was one such:

Image

I had two 12v batteries being charged in series with a 24v charger. I've been told that may have contributed, but still not clear why.]]>
drseti wrote:
Bear in mind that the Odyssey is an AGM battery, so requires a different charger than those used for lead acid.


There's no doubt the right charger optimizes charging.

But in real life, I've used all sorts of chargers to charge lead acid flooded cell, AGM and even lithium-iron batteries to good effect.

My reasoning is that consider how an aircraft battery of any description normally gets charged - that is, in the airplane from a generator or alternator through a pretty dumb voltage regulator that seems not to care what kind of battery its dumping its voltage into. So, the different types can't be all that finicky, can they?

That said, buying the right charger is probably not a bad idea. The wrong style left unattended for a long time may charge in an off-optimum manner, and could even possible damage the battery.

Two more points:

1) I've had great service from Odyssey batteries, in both motorcycles and the Sky Arrow.

2) Best practice is to always remove batteries from an airplane before charging. I know many or possibly most don't, but planes have been extensively damaged by exploding/burning/leaking batteries from rogue chargers or shorts or whatever. I've had two batteries explode, and its not pretty. And both were flooded cell being charged with an appropriate charger. This was one such:

Image

I had two 12v batteries being charged in series with a 24v charger. I've been told that may have contributed, but still not clear why.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-12T01:00:47-04:00 2018-06-12T01:00:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51978#p51978
I’m certain that most everyone charges their battery while in the plane. My charger came with a pig tail with a inline fuse that I permanently attached to the battery and I routed the connector to the bottom of the firewall so I can access it from under the nose. I can simply reach under and plug it in after I put her back in the hangar.]]>

I’m certain that most everyone charges their battery while in the plane. My charger came with a pig tail with a inline fuse that I permanently attached to the battery and I routed the connector to the bottom of the firewall so I can access it from under the nose. I can simply reach under and plug it in after I put her back in the hangar.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-06-12T08:25:15-04:00 2018-06-12T08:25:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51979#p51979
Here is a link to supported chargers: http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents ... argers.pdf]]>

Here is a link to supported chargers: http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents ... argers.pdf]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-12T09:38:17-04:00 2018-06-12T09:38:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51980#p51980
It all stems from the voltage of the charger while in "float" mode. The Odyssey batteries have a higher float voltage than other AGM batteries therefore require a charger with a high float voltage so as not to pull the battery down when it goes into float mode. The PC680 in my plane has a float charge voltage of 13.5 to 13.8 volts. This voltage is printed on top of their batteries. I cannot find the float voltage spec for the BTP on Deltrans webpage.

On my next trip to the airport I'll put the charger on the battery and wait for it to go into float mode, shouldn't take long with a fully charged battery, and then measure the float voltage from the charger and see if it's enough of not.

I'll reach out to both manufacturers in the meantime for their opinions. I just put the new battery in less than three weeks ago and have not used the charger yet although the pigtail is wired in like it was on the Duracell. All the literature and website for the BTP say it'll work on AGM batteries. But I'll verify.

Thank you for the heads up. :mrgreen:]]>

It all stems from the voltage of the charger while in "float" mode. The Odyssey batteries have a higher float voltage than other AGM batteries therefore require a charger with a high float voltage so as not to pull the battery down when it goes into float mode. The PC680 in my plane has a float charge voltage of 13.5 to 13.8 volts. This voltage is printed on top of their batteries. I cannot find the float voltage spec for the BTP on Deltrans webpage.

On my next trip to the airport I'll put the charger on the battery and wait for it to go into float mode, shouldn't take long with a fully charged battery, and then measure the float voltage from the charger and see if it's enough of not.

I'll reach out to both manufacturers in the meantime for their opinions. I just put the new battery in less than three weeks ago and have not used the charger yet although the pigtail is wired in like it was on the Duracell. All the literature and website for the BTP say it'll work on AGM batteries. But I'll verify.

Thank you for the heads up. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-12T10:16:23-04:00 2018-06-12T10:16:23-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51981#p51981
With all of the modern avionics some of these airplanes have there might be a keep alive wire connected to the electrical system that is doing the same thing.]]>

With all of the modern avionics some of these airplanes have there might be a keep alive wire connected to the electrical system that is doing the same thing.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-12T11:27:29-04:00 2018-06-12T11:27:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51982#p51982
As for the "keep alive" circuit, Dynon even had a SB many years ago for their legacy glass (D-100 and D-120 and a few others) to disconnect this. It wasn't for battery drain reasons but they would certainly could have a parasitic drain on any battery. Once my master is off I have no other drain as I tested for even the slightest current draw with everything off.

I'll research everything before I commit to use or not use the BTP on my Odyssey battery. It's a 3 week old battery so it's wicked strong right now and doesn't require a charger at the moment.]]>

As for the "keep alive" circuit, Dynon even had a SB many years ago for their legacy glass (D-100 and D-120 and a few others) to disconnect this. It wasn't for battery drain reasons but they would certainly could have a parasitic drain on any battery. Once my master is off I have no other drain as I tested for even the slightest current draw with everything off.

I'll research everything before I commit to use or not use the BTP on my Odyssey battery. It's a 3 week old battery so it's wicked strong right now and doesn't require a charger at the moment.]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-06-12T12:38:33-04:00 2018-06-12T12:38:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51986#p51986
I'll research everything before I commit to use or not use the BTP on my Odyssey battery. It's a 3 week old battery so it's wicked strong right now and doesn't require a charger at the moment.

Clearly my Odyssey PC310 was dying a slow death over the last year. My plane started fine, I thought, and when I put it on the Odyssey charger after each flight, the charger would immediately jump to 'Green'. Occasionally, I would hit the 'charge' button and it would go through the levels in less than a minute. It did this up until last Saturday when it died.

When I started on my new battery, the prop rotated much faster and the plane started immediately. I guess you get used to a slow decline and your 'normal' changes without noticing.

The PC310 has 310 cranking amps for 5 seconds, then has 100 CCA. I wonder if when an Odyssey goes bad the 5 second of 'super' power is the first to go?]]>
I'll research everything before I commit to use or not use the BTP on my Odyssey battery. It's a 3 week old battery so it's wicked strong right now and doesn't require a charger at the moment.

Clearly my Odyssey PC310 was dying a slow death over the last year. My plane started fine, I thought, and when I put it on the Odyssey charger after each flight, the charger would immediately jump to 'Green'. Occasionally, I would hit the 'charge' button and it would go through the levels in less than a minute. It did this up until last Saturday when it died.

When I started on my new battery, the prop rotated much faster and the plane started immediately. I guess you get used to a slow decline and your 'normal' changes without noticing.

The PC310 has 310 cranking amps for 5 seconds, then has 100 CCA. I wonder if when an Odyssey goes bad the 5 second of 'super' power is the first to go?]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-12T13:33:09-04:00 2018-06-12T13:33:09-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51987#p51987
dstclair wrote:When I started on my new battery, the prop rotated much faster and the plane started immediately. I guess you get used to a slow decline and your 'normal' changes without noticing.


I also noticed this immediately with my new PC680. I've changed my battery now 3 times in 5 years (all lesser expensive batteries) and never did one of them start the plane like the Odyssey. It was amazing to see the speed at which it turned over and it started in less than what seemed like a second. Some serious CCA's going on in that battery.

If I can get 4 years from the Odyssey it'll be well worth the $129 spent on it. :mrgreen:]]>
dstclair wrote:When I started on my new battery, the prop rotated much faster and the plane started immediately. I guess you get used to a slow decline and your 'normal' changes without noticing.


I also noticed this immediately with my new PC680. I've changed my battery now 3 times in 5 years (all lesser expensive batteries) and never did one of them start the plane like the Odyssey. It was amazing to see the speed at which it turned over and it started in less than what seemed like a second. Some serious CCA's going on in that battery.

If I can get 4 years from the Odyssey it'll be well worth the $129 spent on it. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Light Sport Aircraft :: Re: Batteries :: Reply by ScottyB]]> 2018-06-13T00:35:46-04:00 2018-06-13T00:35:46-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5106&p=51989#p51989 Didn't use bat tender over the winter and this spring it was still full charge]]> Didn't use bat tender over the winter and this spring it was still full charge]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by dogugotw]]> 2018-05-19T19:51:32-04:00 2018-05-19T19:51:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51640#p51640 Stats: I'm 64, try and fly 2 times per week, more often around each scheduled checkride. Around Jan I was a bit over 60 hour and was ready for the checkride.
If this keeps up, I may save money and move up to PPL...plane is more but DPE's are more available...]]>
Stats: I'm 64, try and fly 2 times per week, more often around each scheduled checkride. Around Jan I was a bit over 60 hour and was ready for the checkride.
If this keeps up, I may save money and move up to PPL...plane is more but DPE's are more available...]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Average :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-19T20:10:10-04:00 2018-05-19T20:10:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5076&p=51642#p51642
dogugotw wrote:My DPE's schedule runs 4-8 weeks out.


Sadly, you're not alone - that's a problem throughout the LSA industry, and what motivated me to become a DPE. (See my thread on the subject.)

You didn't say where you're located, but if you're within range of Central PA, I can probably schedule you in within a week or two.

Meanwhile, my new DPE website at http://SportPilotExaminer.US might be of interest to you.]]>
dogugotw wrote:My DPE's schedule runs 4-8 weeks out.


Sadly, you're not alone - that's a problem throughout the LSA industry, and what motivated me to become a DPE. (See my thread on the subject.)

You didn't say where you're located, but if you're within range of Central PA, I can probably schedule you in within a week or two.

Meanwhile, my new DPE website at http://SportPilotExaminer.US might be of interest to you.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-05-20T12:32:08-04:00 2018-05-20T12:32:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51650#p51650 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by WDD]]> 2018-05-20T12:48:29-04:00 2018-05-20T12:48:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51651#p51651
3Dreaming wrote:Headsets are a very personal choice item. What works well for one might cause issues for another. I would recommend you buy something inexpensive for your training, and the use it as a passenger headset after you are finished. When you get a chance go to an avionics shop or a major airshow like Oshkosh and try on different headsets. Buy the quietest most comfortable headset you can afford. The most expensive headset is not always an individuals best choice.


Great advice there. I too am a student. I bought a used set of David Clark basic model 10. When I finish up training I'll treat myself to another headset and use the David Clark set for passenger. By the time I finish up I'll know a lot more about what works for me, what the best headset is. I'm finding out I value noise reduction most of all, light weight next. I'm thinking Clarity Aloft might be the ticket, as it has higher noise reduction than even the expensive Boise ANR. But still time to figure it out.

So yes, 1) get a used, affordable, rugged headset from E Bay or something like that, and 2) figure out after training what really works for you, and then get it. Use the first set as the backup - passenger set.

BTW - cool that you're thinking of the GF at this time, but it will be a bit before she can ride with you, so don't worry about it now. AND... as GF and wives go, let HER pick out the headset. AND........ no, don't make it a Valentine's Day or Anniversary present..... :mrgreen:]]>
3Dreaming wrote:Headsets are a very personal choice item. What works well for one might cause issues for another. I would recommend you buy something inexpensive for your training, and the use it as a passenger headset after you are finished. When you get a chance go to an avionics shop or a major airshow like Oshkosh and try on different headsets. Buy the quietest most comfortable headset you can afford. The most expensive headset is not always an individuals best choice.


Great advice there. I too am a student. I bought a used set of David Clark basic model 10. When I finish up training I'll treat myself to another headset and use the David Clark set for passenger. By the time I finish up I'll know a lot more about what works for me, what the best headset is. I'm finding out I value noise reduction most of all, light weight next. I'm thinking Clarity Aloft might be the ticket, as it has higher noise reduction than even the expensive Boise ANR. But still time to figure it out.

So yes, 1) get a used, affordable, rugged headset from E Bay or something like that, and 2) figure out after training what really works for you, and then get it. Use the first set as the backup - passenger set.

BTW - cool that you're thinking of the GF at this time, but it will be a bit before she can ride with you, so don't worry about it now. AND... as GF and wives go, let HER pick out the headset. AND........ no, don't make it a Valentine's Day or Anniversary present..... :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-20T13:11:15-04:00 2018-05-20T13:11:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51653#p51653 not to use an ANR headset for training. I want them to learn to observe and interpret engine sound and wind noise, and AMT makes them virtually deaf to their environment.]]> not to use an ANR headset for training. I want them to learn to observe and interpret engine sound and wind noise, and AMT makes them virtually deaf to their environment.]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-20T13:23:31-04:00 2018-05-20T13:23:31-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51654#p51654 Frankly sometimes I wish it was quieter ...]]> Frankly sometimes I wish it was quieter ...]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Headset :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-20T20:44:53-04:00 2018-05-20T20:44:53-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5089&p=51659#p51659
I got this same advice when I was shopping for a road bike for cycling. I almost bought a really nice aluminum bike with many bells and whistles. A woman I ride with told me "spend a little more now on a full carbon fiber bike and you'll be very happy later". She was right. I spent more money up front but got a bike that will last me a very long time without the need to upgrade.]]>

I got this same advice when I was shopping for a road bike for cycling. I almost bought a really nice aluminum bike with many bells and whistles. A woman I ride with told me "spend a little more now on a full carbon fiber bike and you'll be very happy later". She was right. I spent more money up front but got a bike that will last me a very long time without the need to upgrade.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Flying photo :: Reply by smutny]]> 2018-05-20T12:48:40-04:00 2018-05-20T12:48:40-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51652#p51652
I've flown the photo ship for a few shoots. Just a couple weeks ago I flew a photog to shoot an Acro Sport and One Design for Sport Aerobatics out of a 172. We always start with a detailed briefing, and depending on subject pilot experience, will walk the entire flight on the ramp before takeoff.]]>

I've flown the photo ship for a few shoots. Just a couple weeks ago I flew a photog to shoot an Acro Sport and One Design for Sport Aerobatics out of a 172. We always start with a detailed briefing, and depending on subject pilot experience, will walk the entire flight on the ramp before takeoff.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Flying photo :: Reply by David]]> 2018-05-22T19:39:53-04:00 2018-05-22T19:39:53-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5047&p=51683#p51683
Photo by Brent from his Rv12 with Mark #1 and me #2 in formation to Oshkosh]]>

Photo by Brent from his Rv12 with Mark #1 and me #2 in formation to Oshkosh]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Do pilots use paper or digital logbook? :: Reply by carlapilot]]> 2018-05-28T05:16:32-04:00 2018-05-28T05:16:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5086&p=51730#p51730 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Best books and apps for PPL beginners? :: Reply by carlapilot]]> 2018-05-28T05:17:47-04:00 2018-05-28T05:17:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5085&p=51731#p51731


WDD wrote:Have you passed your written yet?
]]>



WDD wrote:Have you passed your written yet?
]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Why we use checklists..... :: Author ShawnM]]> 2018-05-20T07:31:06-04:00 2018-05-20T07:31:06-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51643#p51643
I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:

This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:

Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.

The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

PS - This is my all time favorite airplane and it was sad to see it here instead of in his hangar.

IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg

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IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg (96.62 KiB)


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I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:

This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:

Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.

The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

PS - This is my all time favorite airplane and it was sad to see it here instead of in his hangar.

IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg

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IMG_6147 (Medium).jpg (96.62 KiB)


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<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by chicagorandy]]> 2018-05-20T08:01:56-04:00 2018-05-20T08:01:56-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51644#p51644
I thought them there 'fancy' airplanes had warning horns for landing gear deployment or lack thereof? Or did the pilot experience a mechanical gear failure?]]>

I thought them there 'fancy' airplanes had warning horns for landing gear deployment or lack thereof? Or did the pilot experience a mechanical gear failure?]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-20T08:23:24-04:00 2018-05-20T08:23:24-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51645#p51645
I would've thought this plane would have a warning system also. I tried to google this and saw some info about a gear warning system but nothing definitive.

There were no calls made about any failures and no emergency vehicles on site. I think it was just an oversight. I saw one person talking to the pilot but I certainly wasn't going to ask him anything. His ego was bruised enough.

He was landing on runway 5 and came to a stop just about half way down the runway. They are now waiting on a company to bring in some airbags to lift it up to hopefully get the gear down and move it off the runway back to his hangar.

This will certainly ruin your day.]]>

I would've thought this plane would have a warning system also. I tried to google this and saw some info about a gear warning system but nothing definitive.

There were no calls made about any failures and no emergency vehicles on site. I think it was just an oversight. I saw one person talking to the pilot but I certainly wasn't going to ask him anything. His ego was bruised enough.

He was landing on runway 5 and came to a stop just about half way down the runway. They are now waiting on a company to bring in some airbags to lift it up to hopefully get the gear down and move it off the runway back to his hangar.

This will certainly ruin your day.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> 2018-05-20T09:18:24-04:00 2018-05-20T09:18:24-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51646#p51646 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-20T09:52:20-04:00 2018-05-20T09:52:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51647#p51647
Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.]]>

Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> 2018-05-20T09:58:31-04:00 2018-05-20T09:58:31-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51648#p51648
ShawnM wrote:This boys and girls is why we use CHECKLISTS !!!! This poor guy closed the main runway, 5/23, at my airport today.
I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:
This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:
Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.
The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

What are the facts of the accident? Have you read the NTSB final report?
If you haven't, I caution you on making such irresponsible and hasty assertions.
Your post sounded like a snippet from a tabloid newspaper.]]>
ShawnM wrote:This boys and girls is why we use CHECKLISTS !!!! This poor guy closed the main runway, 5/23, at my airport today.
I'll give you one guess as to what he forgot to check. :shock:
This Pilatus PC-12 is approximately a 4 million dollar airplane, no word if the charter pilot still has a job or not. :mrgreen:
Interestingly, the FAA published the NOTAM within about 15-20 minutes of the "landing" stating 5/23 was closed for 24 hours.
The moral of this post, use your checklist, you're not "too cool" to use one, just ask this guy. 8)

What are the facts of the accident? Have you read the NTSB final report?
If you haven't, I caution you on making such irresponsible and hasty assertions.
Your post sounded like a snippet from a tabloid newspaper.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-20T12:08:50-04:00 2018-05-20T12:08:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51649#p51649 What do I know? I'm just a writer for the National Enquirer. :mrgreen:]]> What do I know? I'm just a writer for the National Enquirer. :mrgreen:]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-20T13:46:10-04:00 2018-05-20T13:46:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51655#p51655
ShawnM wrote:Since my friend Ted was the first to call the airport manager at the FBO to inform him of the gear up landing and there were no emergency vehicles on site and the gear was tucked away nice and neat in the plane with no signs of a collapse we ALL on site came to the consensus that he forgot the gear.

Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.

I agree. If it was a mechanical failure, he would have been in contact with the manufacturer trying to solve the problem. He would have been in contact with people at the airport, etc. Nobody just lands an airplane with mechanical gear failure without taking every possible course of action to solve the problem.

Regarding a gear warning, believe it or not, people have managed to land gear up with a gear warning horn blaring away. Obviously, we don't know what happened here.]]>
ShawnM wrote:Since my friend Ted was the first to call the airport manager at the FBO to inform him of the gear up landing and there were no emergency vehicles on site and the gear was tucked away nice and neat in the plane with no signs of a collapse we ALL on site came to the consensus that he forgot the gear.

Had there been a mechanical failure it would be more obvious or there would have been emergency vehicles there waiting for him.

I agree. If it was a mechanical failure, he would have been in contact with the manufacturer trying to solve the problem. He would have been in contact with people at the airport, etc. Nobody just lands an airplane with mechanical gear failure without taking every possible course of action to solve the problem.

Regarding a gear warning, believe it or not, people have managed to land gear up with a gear warning horn blaring away. Obviously, we don't know what happened here.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-20T17:26:30-04:00 2018-05-20T17:26:30-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51657#p51657
(Fortunately, it was on grass, with very little damage.)]]>

(Fortunately, it was on grass, with very little damage.)]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-05-20T19:09:01-04:00 2018-05-20T19:09:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51658#p51658 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Half Fast]]> 2018-05-20T21:20:59-04:00 2018-05-20T21:20:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51660#p51660
1. Shut off engine.
2. Master switch OFF.
3. Move gear selector to DOWN position.]]>

1. Shut off engine.
2. Master switch OFF.
3. Move gear selector to DOWN position.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-20T22:27:01-04:00 2018-05-20T22:27:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51661#p51661
3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:]]>
3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-21T07:30:31-04:00 2018-05-21T07:30:31-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51663#p51663
Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.]]>

Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-21T09:56:58-04:00 2018-05-21T09:56:58-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51665#p51665
ShawnM wrote:
Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right?


We do.

Has not happened to me - yet.

But I have a friend who I taught to fly in my Citabria, and later he bought a Mooney and I transitioned him to it. I’m big on checklists and hopefully ingrained that in him.

But...

One day at Opa Locka he was all gear down and locked on final in his Mooney, but had to do around. Gear up is part of the go around procedure. He was then cleared to land and did so. With the gear still up.

And that’s usually how it happens - some distraction or break in procedures. It’s specifically not stupidity, nor usually lack of training. Just human foibles at work.]]>
ShawnM wrote:
Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right?


We do.

Has not happened to me - yet.

But I have a friend who I taught to fly in my Citabria, and later he bought a Mooney and I transitioned him to it. I’m big on checklists and hopefully ingrained that in him.

But...

One day at Opa Locka he was all gear down and locked on final in his Mooney, but had to do around. Gear up is part of the go around procedure. He was then cleared to land and did so. With the gear still up.

And that’s usually how it happens - some distraction or break in procedures. It’s specifically not stupidity, nor usually lack of training. Just human foibles at work.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-05-21T10:17:01-04:00 2018-05-21T10:17:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51666#p51666
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:


Roll your eyes all you want. I was just saying there could be reasons beyond just simply not putting the gear down.

I know of an incident with a Bonanza, where almost the exact same thing happened. The only difference was they did put the gear down. The fellow was on his way to Evansville to get some radio work done. He had just made radio contact when he had an electrical system failure. He turned around and headed back to his home airport. He cranked the gear down, and flew across the FBO a couple times trying to get someone to come out and look at the gear. Anyway he landed with no issue. On the Bonanza the battery box on the firewall seems like a place that mechanics will lay down tools while working. There was an errant 1/4" universal joint that a mechanic didn't get picked up. It slid off the box and down the firewall getting lodged between the positive battery cable and the firewall at the solenoid. He was lucky that it didn't cause a fire. The electrical failure was almost instantaneous. I had not worked on the airplane before, but I was the one who found the universal joint that was causing the problem.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:An electrical failure would have prevented communication with the FBO. It would have prevented the horn from operating. It would have prevented normal operation of the gear. There is however an emergency gear extension procedure.

:roll:


Roll your eyes all you want. I was just saying there could be reasons beyond just simply not putting the gear down.

I know of an incident with a Bonanza, where almost the exact same thing happened. The only difference was they did put the gear down. The fellow was on his way to Evansville to get some radio work done. He had just made radio contact when he had an electrical system failure. He turned around and headed back to his home airport. He cranked the gear down, and flew across the FBO a couple times trying to get someone to come out and look at the gear. Anyway he landed with no issue. On the Bonanza the battery box on the firewall seems like a place that mechanics will lay down tools while working. There was an errant 1/4" universal joint that a mechanic didn't get picked up. It slid off the box and down the firewall getting lodged between the positive battery cable and the firewall at the solenoid. He was lucky that it didn't cause a fire. The electrical failure was almost instantaneous. I had not worked on the airplane before, but I was the one who found the universal joint that was causing the problem.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-21T10:35:45-04:00 2018-05-21T10:35:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51669#p51669
Other planes may have this as well but the Bellanca had a quasi failsafe mode. You could set the switch to Auto and the gear would automatically extend when you got below 100 mph.]]>

Other planes may have this as well but the Bellanca had a quasi failsafe mode. You could set the switch to Auto and the gear would automatically extend when you got below 100 mph.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-21T10:46:07-04:00 2018-05-21T10:46:07-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51670#p51670
They dragged the airplane off to the side, where it sat beside the runway the entire four day fly-in to remind the pilot of his folly.]]>

They dragged the airplane off to the side, where it sat beside the runway the entire four day fly-in to remind the pilot of his folly.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> 2018-05-21T11:41:12-04:00 2018-05-21T11:41:12-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51671#p51671
ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."]]>
ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-21T13:42:47-04:00 2018-05-21T13:42:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51672#p51672
ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.


DISTRACTION.]]>
ShawnM wrote:Being a fixed gear pilot only I scratch my head trying to figure out how it's even possible this happens but we are only human and it does. We make mistakes, right? Thankfully no one was injured in the Pilatus or the Mooney events, only some bruised egos I'm sure.


DISTRACTION.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-05-21T14:11:02-04:00 2018-05-21T14:11:02-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51675#p51675
IDENTIFICATION
Date: 19-MAY-18
Time: 17:10:00Z
Regis#: N83JR
Aircraft Make: PILATUS
Aircraft Model: PC 12 47E
Event Type: INCIDENT
Highest Injury: NONE
Aircraft Missing: No
Damage: UNKNOWN

LOCATION
City: ZEPHYRHILLS
State: FLORIDA
Country: UNITED STATES
DESCRIPTION
Description: AIRCRAFT LANDED GEAR UP, ZEPHYRHILLS FL

OTHER
Activity: PERSONAL
Flight Phase: LANDING (LDG)
Operation: 91
Aircraft Operator:
Flight Number:
FAA FSDO: TAMPA FSDO
Entry Date: 21-MAY-18
Updated since entry: No]]>

IDENTIFICATION
Date: 19-MAY-18
Time: 17:10:00Z
Regis#: N83JR
Aircraft Make: PILATUS
Aircraft Model: PC 12 47E
Event Type: INCIDENT
Highest Injury: NONE
Aircraft Missing: No
Damage: UNKNOWN

LOCATION
City: ZEPHYRHILLS
State: FLORIDA
Country: UNITED STATES
DESCRIPTION
Description: AIRCRAFT LANDED GEAR UP, ZEPHYRHILLS FL

OTHER
Activity: PERSONAL
Flight Phase: LANDING (LDG)
Operation: 91
Aircraft Operator:
Flight Number:
FAA FSDO: TAMPA FSDO
Entry Date: 21-MAY-18
Updated since entry: No]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-21T17:32:50-04:00 2018-05-21T17:32:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51679#p51679 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-21T19:52:41-04:00 2018-05-21T19:52:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51680#p51680 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-05-21T21:04:29-04:00 2018-05-21T21:04:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51681#p51681
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/05/pilatus-pc-1247e-n83jr-incident.html]]>

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/05/pilatus-pc-1247e-n83jr-incident.html]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-21T21:27:04-04:00 2018-05-21T21:27:04-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51682#p51682 had done the checklist. Which he had - before raising the gear again, of course.

I am “Mr. Checklist”, yet at least once I’ve gone to turn off my boost pump after landing, only to realize I never turned it on. Invariably because of something outside of routine going on. It happens. Obviously!]]>
had done the checklist. Which he had - before raising the gear again, of course.

I am “Mr. Checklist”, yet at least once I’ve gone to turn off my boost pump after landing, only to realize I never turned it on. Invariably because of something outside of routine going on. It happens. Obviously!]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by carlapilot]]> 2018-05-28T05:04:47-04:00 2018-05-28T05:04:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51729#p51729 :o
Ok i am a student, and learning on C152... but thinking of the future... its many cases when pilots forget this... and landing like this... :o Im scared already what if I forget one day. But my flightschool is very strong and serious with checklists.... but still so. Experienced pilots do mistakes too.]]>
:o
Ok i am a student, and learning on C152... but thinking of the future... its many cases when pilots forget this... and landing like this... :o Im scared already what if I forget one day. But my flightschool is very strong and serious with checklists.... but still so. Experienced pilots do mistakes too.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-28T20:57:57-04:00 2018-05-28T20:57:57-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51742#p51742

Once again, this is why we use checklists and not try to recall things from memory. Glad your school is "strong and serious" about using them, one day the checklist may save your life.

Apparently this Pilatus was listed for sale on Controller.com at the time of the incident. The plane only has 241 hours and was listed for sale at $4.55 million dollars. :shock:

I'm certain that the 5 bladed hartzell prop alone that sheared off during the landing costs more than my entire SportCruiser did. :shock:

Needless to say the listing has been removed so if any of you were looking to buy it there will be a slight delay before the sale. :mrgreen:]]>


Once again, this is why we use checklists and not try to recall things from memory. Glad your school is "strong and serious" about using them, one day the checklist may save your life.

Apparently this Pilatus was listed for sale on Controller.com at the time of the incident. The plane only has 241 hours and was listed for sale at $4.55 million dollars. :shock:

I'm certain that the 5 bladed hartzell prop alone that sheared off during the landing costs more than my entire SportCruiser did. :shock:

Needless to say the listing has been removed so if any of you were looking to buy it there will be a slight delay before the sale. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-28T21:04:19-04:00 2018-05-28T21:04:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51743#p51743 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-29T07:31:59-04:00 2018-05-29T07:31:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51744#p51744
Warmi wrote:90 k for the PC-12 prop... so you were close. :D


$90K, OMG :shock: I guess I shouldn’t complain about my $1200 Woodcomp prop then.

I bought my SportCruiser used in 2013 and paid a lot less than $90K. :mrgreen:]]>
Warmi wrote:90 k for the PC-12 prop... so you were close. :D


$90K, OMG :shock: I guess I shouldn’t complain about my $1200 Woodcomp prop then.

I bought my SportCruiser used in 2013 and paid a lot less than $90K. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-29T09:55:48-04:00 2018-05-29T09:55:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51750#p51750 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-29T11:18:43-04:00 2018-05-29T11:18:43-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51758#p51758
1. Use the checklist for each phase of flight
2. Use the GUMPPP acronym (gas, undercarriage, mixture, props, pumps, pressure) at the appropriate time and on final
3. Say "gear down, locked, and green" out-loud when putting gear down or verifying
4. Touch the three green light indicators, don't just recite the words.]]>

1. Use the checklist for each phase of flight
2. Use the GUMPPP acronym (gas, undercarriage, mixture, props, pumps, pressure) at the appropriate time and on final
3. Say "gear down, locked, and green" out-loud when putting gear down or verifying
4. Touch the three green light indicators, don't just recite the words.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by HAPPYDAN]]> 2018-05-29T12:14:14-04:00 2018-05-29T12:14:14-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51760#p51760 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-29T12:35:00-04:00 2018-05-29T12:35:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51761#p51761 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Why we use checklists..... :: Reply by jarinawoz]]> 2018-06-04T07:52:49-04:00 2018-06-04T07:52:49-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5090&p=51863#p51863 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Materials Needed for Training ? :: Reply by jarinawoz]]> 2018-06-04T08:00:30-04:00 2018-06-04T08:00:30-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4957&p=51864#p51864 and also for the cockpit picture and instruments getting memorized, check X Plane or Flight Simulator (ok this is an older version but I have been told by many experienced pilots to use this, so I have it on my laptop and practicing using our airport in virtual reality :D ...its fun also)]]> and also for the cockpit picture and instruments getting memorized, check X Plane or Flight Simulator (ok this is an older version but I have been told by many experienced pilots to use this, so I have it on my laptop and practicing using our airport in virtual reality :D ...its fun also)]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Reply by jcwCT]]> 2018-06-05T10:07:55-04:00 2018-06-05T10:07:55-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51872#p51872
What would you like to know?]]>

What would you like to know?]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Reply by joey4420]]> 2018-06-06T08:31:52-04:00 2018-06-06T08:31:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51890#p51890
Before anyone asks, nope no intention of getting rid of my Ercoupe. Just looking for something more of a cross country bird.]]>

Before anyone asks, nope no intention of getting rid of my Ercoupe. Just looking for something more of a cross country bird.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-06T08:48:16-04:00 2018-06-06T08:48:16-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51891#p51891 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Reply by sportflugzeug]]> 2018-06-06T10:51:13-04:00 2018-06-06T10:51:13-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51893#p51893
I was flying a low wing Evektor and had to move to the high wing Jabiru. I like the space of the Jabiru and the Y stick. I feel it is easily controllable as I am right handed.

I found that steep turns (45 degree) were much easier in the Evektor. Also, power on stalls are more controllable in the Evektor.

I realize it is a different plane, but does high wing vs low wing make that big of a difference?]]>

I was flying a low wing Evektor and had to move to the high wing Jabiru. I like the space of the Jabiru and the Y stick. I feel it is easily controllable as I am right handed.

I found that steep turns (45 degree) were much easier in the Evektor. Also, power on stalls are more controllable in the Evektor.

I realize it is a different plane, but does high wing vs low wing make that big of a difference?]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-06T12:19:34-04:00 2018-06-06T12:19:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51894#p51894
joey4420 wrote:Since this is an old post and I happen to be looking for a second aircraft. I will ask, How does the J230 fly? What would you compare it to? Any bad habits or traits? How does it handle grass strips? How is the Jabiru 3300 for Maintenance?

Before anyone asks, nope no intention of getting rid of my Ercoupe. Just looking for something more of a cross country bird.


If you want cross country , go for the private certificate and get yourself some kind of RV ... no LSA plane will improve significantly on Ercoupe speed - yes, CTLS or Sting or Jabiru can give you 110 or so knots vs Ercoupe's 95 knots but that's not much of an improvement - RV will give you something along 140-150 knots.]]>
joey4420 wrote:Since this is an old post and I happen to be looking for a second aircraft. I will ask, How does the J230 fly? What would you compare it to? Any bad habits or traits? How does it handle grass strips? How is the Jabiru 3300 for Maintenance?

Before anyone asks, nope no intention of getting rid of my Ercoupe. Just looking for something more of a cross country bird.


If you want cross country , go for the private certificate and get yourself some kind of RV ... no LSA plane will improve significantly on Ercoupe speed - yes, CTLS or Sting or Jabiru can give you 110 or so knots vs Ercoupe's 95 knots but that's not much of an improvement - RV will give you something along 140-150 knots.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-06T17:36:27-04:00 2018-06-06T17:36:27-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51895#p51895
Warmi wrote:
joey4420 wrote:Since this is an old post and I happen to be looking for a second aircraft. I will ask, How does the J230 fly? What would you compare it to? Any bad habits or traits? How does it handle grass strips? How is the Jabiru 3300 for Maintenance?

Before anyone asks, nope no intention of getting rid of my Ercoupe. Just looking for something more of a cross country bird.


If you want cross country , go for the private certificate and get yourself some kind of RV ... no LSA plane will improve significantly on Ercoupe speed - yes, CTLS or Sting or Jabiru can give you 110 or so knots vs Ercoupe's 95 knots but that's not much of an improvement - RV will give you something along 140-150 knots.


I think your numbers are shy for the CTLS, and over optimistic for the Ercoupe. I think the speed delta will be just north of 40 mph. between the two.]]>
Warmi wrote:
joey4420 wrote:Since this is an old post and I happen to be looking for a second aircraft. I will ask, How does the J230 fly? What would you compare it to? Any bad habits or traits? How does it handle grass strips? How is the Jabiru 3300 for Maintenance?

Before anyone asks, nope no intention of getting rid of my Ercoupe. Just looking for something more of a cross country bird.


If you want cross country , go for the private certificate and get yourself some kind of RV ... no LSA plane will improve significantly on Ercoupe speed - yes, CTLS or Sting or Jabiru can give you 110 or so knots vs Ercoupe's 95 knots but that's not much of an improvement - RV will give you something along 140-150 knots.


I think your numbers are shy for the CTLS, and over optimistic for the Ercoupe. I think the speed delta will be just north of 40 mph. between the two.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: Has anyone ever flown the Jabiru J230? :: Reply by jetcat3]]> 2018-06-07T16:34:46-04:00 2018-06-07T16:34:46-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5083&p=51921#p51921 <![CDATA[Training :: Flight Training Survey :: Author Euro-american]]> 2018-06-12T12:13:15-04:00 2018-06-12T12:13:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5109&p=51983#p51983
Your participation can help your schools and instructors be the very best they can be. Act Now – the Survey Closes August 13, 2018 at 12:00 p.m. (noon) EDT.

To take the survey, please visit www.aopa.org/takesurvey.
For more information, please visit www.aopa.org/ftsurvey.]]>

Your participation can help your schools and instructors be the very best they can be. Act Now – the Survey Closes August 13, 2018 at 12:00 p.m. (noon) EDT.

To take the survey, please visit www.aopa.org/takesurvey.
For more information, please visit www.aopa.org/ftsurvey.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Author B747]]> 2018-05-22T22:10:57-04:00 2018-05-22T22:10:57-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51684#p51684 Thank you]]> Thank you]]> <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-22T23:57:54-04:00 2018-05-22T23:57:54-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51685#p51685 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by rcpilot]]> 2018-05-23T07:47:53-04:00 2018-05-23T07:47:53-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51686#p51686 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by B747]]> 2018-05-23T17:54:28-04:00 2018-05-23T17:54:28-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51690#p51690 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-05-23T18:19:40-04:00 2018-05-23T18:19:40-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51691#p51691
Know the limitations legal, airplane, and personal. For example the legal requirement for fuel is what's required plus 30, Your personal might be 45 to 60 minutes. What is the maximum crosswind component? Would you fly with the maximum crosswind? Show good personal judgement. Just because there is a limit doesn't mean you have you have to go to the limit.]]>

Know the limitations legal, airplane, and personal. For example the legal requirement for fuel is what's required plus 30, Your personal might be 45 to 60 minutes. What is the maximum crosswind component? Would you fly with the maximum crosswind? Show good personal judgement. Just because there is a limit doesn't mean you have you have to go to the limit.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by B747]]> 2018-05-23T18:28:48-04:00 2018-05-23T18:28:48-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51692#p51692 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-23T18:33:39-04:00 2018-05-23T18:33:39-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51693#p51693 Questions about W&B , how it affects handling , nose-heavy vs tail-heavy etc .... not much different than the written exam except mostly based around real life scenarios.

On the practical portion, it was a 10 minutes cross country flight using GPS ( he basically told me to fly the way I would normally fly ) followed by ground maneuvers , various stalls and then a lot of time spent simulating emergencies .. all the way to the ground (300 agl or so )
We finished by going back to the airport and doing bunch of landings , which happened to be probably some of my best landings , and that was it .

Overall about 2 hours and 30 minutes ...]]>
Questions about W&B , how it affects handling , nose-heavy vs tail-heavy etc .... not much different than the written exam except mostly based around real life scenarios.

On the practical portion, it was a 10 minutes cross country flight using GPS ( he basically told me to fly the way I would normally fly ) followed by ground maneuvers , various stalls and then a lot of time spent simulating emergencies .. all the way to the ground (300 agl or so )
We finished by going back to the airport and doing bunch of landings , which happened to be probably some of my best landings , and that was it .

Overall about 2 hours and 30 minutes ...]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-23T19:40:28-04:00 2018-05-23T19:40:28-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51694#p51694
At some point, he may give you a new destination. With or without the use of your GPS, you should be able to turn toward your new destination and go there. While headed toward your new destination, be able to verify your new heading, distance, and ETA to the new destination and verify that you have enough fuel to get there with 30 minutes of reserve or more.

These are things you need to be able to do, not just to pass a flight test, but to be a pilot.]]>

At some point, he may give you a new destination. With or without the use of your GPS, you should be able to turn toward your new destination and go there. While headed toward your new destination, be able to verify your new heading, distance, and ETA to the new destination and verify that you have enough fuel to get there with 30 minutes of reserve or more.

These are things you need to be able to do, not just to pass a flight test, but to be a pilot.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by rcpilot]]> 2018-05-24T07:59:15-04:00 2018-05-24T07:59:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51695#p51695
B747 wrote:Thank you for this information, in regards to Know your aircraft and personal limitations, what do you mean by that, in what aspect of knowing my aircraft? also re weather, what type of questions? Also how does it work, when the examiner asks you to deviate to a different airport, is it the alternative airport you prepared in advance? also how much time do you have to recalculate the TC, TH MH and all the information to get to the alternative airport, while in air and continuing to fly the plane, for me thinking about that point, seems the most stressful


You would need to know what your planes maximum x-wind/head wind components are. Let's say your plane can handle a 15 kt x-wind but maybe you're not comfortable with that. Again when I told him you can fly in 3 mile visibility(legally) the DPE said "trust me you don't want to fly in 3 mile visibility." We did not discuss an alternate in advance(but I'm sure he had one in mind). When he asked me for heading and distance to the "alternate" I didn't whip out the plotter or E6B. I was taking my check ride on Long Island. A direct course to the "alternate" would have had me flying over the sound. So I told him I would fly along the North shore up to a particular point(gave him the landmark off the sectional) then cross over to minimize my time over open water. The "alternate" happened to be close to where I had flown for my x-country and since I remembered the distance to there I was able to "ballpark" the distance. Of course he told me that the compass roses(or whatever they are called) on the sectional have a certain distance diameter(I don't remember what it is)and you can use that to calculate distance on the fly(so to speak). The one weather question I remember was what does it mean when the temperature and dew point are the same? Again, the DPE is not there to fail you and they are instructional as well as testing you. So as long as you have a reasonable idea of what you are doing and why, you'll be fine.]]>
B747 wrote:Thank you for this information, in regards to Know your aircraft and personal limitations, what do you mean by that, in what aspect of knowing my aircraft? also re weather, what type of questions? Also how does it work, when the examiner asks you to deviate to a different airport, is it the alternative airport you prepared in advance? also how much time do you have to recalculate the TC, TH MH and all the information to get to the alternative airport, while in air and continuing to fly the plane, for me thinking about that point, seems the most stressful


You would need to know what your planes maximum x-wind/head wind components are. Let's say your plane can handle a 15 kt x-wind but maybe you're not comfortable with that. Again when I told him you can fly in 3 mile visibility(legally) the DPE said "trust me you don't want to fly in 3 mile visibility." We did not discuss an alternate in advance(but I'm sure he had one in mind). When he asked me for heading and distance to the "alternate" I didn't whip out the plotter or E6B. I was taking my check ride on Long Island. A direct course to the "alternate" would have had me flying over the sound. So I told him I would fly along the North shore up to a particular point(gave him the landmark off the sectional) then cross over to minimize my time over open water. The "alternate" happened to be close to where I had flown for my x-country and since I remembered the distance to there I was able to "ballpark" the distance. Of course he told me that the compass roses(or whatever they are called) on the sectional have a certain distance diameter(I don't remember what it is)and you can use that to calculate distance on the fly(so to speak). The one weather question I remember was what does it mean when the temperature and dew point are the same? Again, the DPE is not there to fail you and they are instructional as well as testing you. So as long as you have a reasonable idea of what you are doing and why, you'll be fine.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> 2018-05-28T17:40:12-04:00 2018-05-28T17:40:12-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51737#p51737 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-29T10:05:58-04:00 2018-05-29T10:05:58-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51754#p51754
foresterpoole wrote:So the new standard (Doc correct me if I'm wrong your a DPE) is more scenario based.


You're entirely correct.]]>
foresterpoole wrote:So the new standard (Doc correct me if I'm wrong your a DPE) is more scenario based.


You're entirely correct.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by B747]]> 2018-06-01T19:47:01-04:00 2018-06-01T19:47:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51809#p51809 Now reading all kind of checkride reports, many of the student's are mentioning that they bought along the Far/aim and marked all pages they might be asked on. To pass my oral exam do i need to know the book, do i need to bring it along to checkride?
Thank you]]>
Now reading all kind of checkride reports, many of the student's are mentioning that they bought along the Far/aim and marked all pages they might be asked on. To pass my oral exam do i need to know the book, do i need to bring it along to checkride?
Thank you]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-01T20:08:45-04:00 2018-06-01T20:08:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51810#p51810
B747 wrote:Thank you all for this valuable input. Another question i would like to get clarity on, during my training i never used or owned the FAR/Aim, i used the Kings school course as well the sportys knowledge course also the FAA pilot's handbook of aeronautical knowledge.
Now reading all kind of checkride reports, many of the student's are mentioning that they bought along the Far/aim and marked all pages they might be asked on. To pass my oral exam do i need to know the book, do i need to bring it along to checkride?
Thank you

I would know it and bring it.]]>
B747 wrote:Thank you all for this valuable input. Another question i would like to get clarity on, during my training i never used or owned the FAR/Aim, i used the Kings school course as well the sportys knowledge course also the FAA pilot's handbook of aeronautical knowledge.
Now reading all kind of checkride reports, many of the student's are mentioning that they bought along the Far/aim and marked all pages they might be asked on. To pass my oral exam do i need to know the book, do i need to bring it along to checkride?
Thank you

I would know it and bring it.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-01T21:47:42-04:00 2018-06-01T21:47:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51811#p51811
I brought the iBook version on my iPad and frankly I only refered to part 91 once on my checkride -most of other parts are not applicable anyway.
Just have a general orientation which parts contain what rules .. if I had to memorize that whole thing , that would surely kill any and all joy of flying.]]>

I brought the iBook version on my iPad and frankly I only refered to part 91 once on my checkride -most of other parts are not applicable anyway.
Just have a general orientation which parts contain what rules .. if I had to memorize that whole thing , that would surely kill any and all joy of flying.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-01T23:01:17-04:00 2018-06-01T23:01:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51815#p51815
Warmi wrote:It is a pretty big book ... :D
I brought the iBook version on my iPad and frankly I only refered to part 91 once on my checkride -most of other parts are not applicable anyway.
Just have a general orientation which parts contain what rules .. if I had to memorize that whole thing , that would surely kill any and all joy of flying.

That's not correct. SOME is not pertinent, such as IFR procedures, etc. A large amount of it is important information all pilots should be familiar with.]]>
Warmi wrote:It is a pretty big book ... :D
I brought the iBook version on my iPad and frankly I only refered to part 91 once on my checkride -most of other parts are not applicable anyway.
Just have a general orientation which parts contain what rules .. if I had to memorize that whole thing , that would surely kill any and all joy of flying.

That's not correct. SOME is not pertinent, such as IFR procedures, etc. A large amount of it is important information all pilots should be familiar with.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-01T23:27:10-04:00 2018-06-01T23:27:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51816#p51816 <![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by rcpilot]]> 2018-06-02T08:43:34-04:00 2018-06-02T08:43:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51821#p51821
foresterpoole wrote: I book marked the FAR/AIM with tabs as well as the POH, shows you prepared and if you can't remember, it's easy to find.


+1 on bookmarking the AIM. My instructor told me to do this and and it made looking things up much easier.]]>
foresterpoole wrote: I book marked the FAR/AIM with tabs as well as the POH, shows you prepared and if you can't remember, it's easy to find.


+1 on bookmarking the AIM. My instructor told me to do this and and it made looking things up much easier.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> 2018-06-02T11:02:40-04:00 2018-06-02T11:02:40-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51824#p51824
rcpilot wrote:
foresterpoole wrote: I book marked the FAR/AIM with tabs as well as the POH, shows you prepared and if you can't remember, it's easy to find.
+1 on bookmarking the AIM. My instructor told me to do this and and it made looking things up much easier.

In my earlier flying years, I was often teased by other pilots, for a study habit I rigotously practiced.
I remember one fellow pilot saying to me, "Bill, why don't you just highlight the parts which are NOT important . . . you would save money on highlighters."
That seemed to work for me for 43 years. :D

Note: My CTSW POH is highlighted.]]>
rcpilot wrote:
foresterpoole wrote: I book marked the FAR/AIM with tabs as well as the POH, shows you prepared and if you can't remember, it's easy to find.
+1 on bookmarking the AIM. My instructor told me to do this and and it made looking things up much easier.

In my earlier flying years, I was often teased by other pilots, for a study habit I rigotously practiced.
I remember one fellow pilot saying to me, "Bill, why don't you just highlight the parts which are NOT important . . . you would save money on highlighters."
That seemed to work for me for 43 years. :D

Note: My CTSW POH is highlighted.]]>
<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-03T16:25:17-04:00 2018-06-03T16:25:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=51854#p51854

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sport pilot books.jpg

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<![CDATA[Training :: Re: How to prepare for my oral & Checkride? :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> 2018-06-14T13:42:29-04:00 2018-06-14T13:42:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5091&p=52009#p52009 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Flight Training Survey :: Author Euro-american]]> 2018-06-12T12:14:07-04:00 2018-06-12T12:14:07-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5110&p=51984#p51984
The Survey Closes August 13, 2018 at 12:00 p.m. (noon) EDT.

To take the survey, please visit www.aopa.org/takesurvey.
For more information, please visit www.aopa.org/ftsurvey.]]>

The Survey Closes August 13, 2018 at 12:00 p.m. (noon) EDT.

To take the survey, please visit www.aopa.org/takesurvey.
For more information, please visit www.aopa.org/ftsurvey.]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-29T21:56:10-04:00 2018-05-29T21:56:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51776#p51776 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-10T12:17:52-04:00 2018-06-10T12:17:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51950#p51950
Those discrepancies (a documentation issue, not a mechanical one) have now been resolved, and we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...]]>

Those discrepancies (a documentation issue, not a mechanical one) have now been resolved, and we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-10T12:21:47-04:00 2018-06-10T12:21:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51951#p51951 one FAA Designated Pilot Examiner for the Airship category in the whole USA! (Not surprisingly, he happens to be Goodyear's Chief Pilot, 'Doc' Dougherty.)]]> one FAA Designated Pilot Examiner for the Airship category in the whole USA! (Not surprisingly, he happens to be Goodyear's Chief Pilot, 'Doc' Dougherty.)]]> <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-11T18:16:36-04:00 2018-06-11T18:16:36-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51961#p51961
oral.jpg

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<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-11T18:18:42-04:00 2018-06-11T18:18:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51962#p51962
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<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-11T18:21:13-04:00 2018-06-11T18:21:13-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51963#p51963
drseti wrote:we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...


Thankfully, the weather cooperated, and I was honored to present the world with it's newest Sport Pilot. (see images above)]]>
drseti wrote:we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...


Thankfully, the weather cooperated, and I was honored to present the world with it's newest Sport Pilot. (see images above)]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> 2018-06-11T18:23:11-04:00 2018-06-11T19:14:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51964#p51964 Thanks for the photos.]]> Thanks for the photos.]]> <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-11T18:28:37-04:00 2018-06-11T18:28:37-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51965#p51965
drseti wrote:
drseti wrote:we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...


Thankfully, the weather cooperated, and I was honored to present the world with it's newest Sport Pilot. (see images above)


That's great...for both of you.]]>
drseti wrote:
drseti wrote:we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...


Thankfully, the weather cooperated, and I was honored to present the world with it's newest Sport Pilot. (see images above)


That's great...for both of you.]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-11T18:49:10-04:00 2018-06-11T18:49:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51967#p51967
I hope I can do something similar when it is time to retire ...]]>

I hope I can do something similar when it is time to retire ...]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-13T14:23:42-04:00 2018-06-13T14:23:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51990#p51990
drseti wrote:
drseti wrote:we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...


Thankfully, the weather cooperated, and I was honored to present the world with it's newest Sport Pilot. (see images above)


Congratulations to you both!]]>
drseti wrote:
drseti wrote:we've rescheduled the flight portion for tomorrow. Unfortunately, it's raining right now, and forecast to continue through tomorrow, so we'll see...


Thankfully, the weather cooperated, and I was honored to present the world with it's newest Sport Pilot. (see images above)


Congratulations to you both!]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-13T15:36:20-04:00 2018-06-13T15:36:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51991#p51991 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-13T16:00:30-04:00 2018-06-13T16:00:30-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51992#p51992
drseti wrote:However, first I need to get myself taildragger-current!


Don’t worry - It’s a lot like riding a bicycle. Except you can’t ground loop a bicycle!]]>
drseti wrote:However, first I need to get myself taildragger-current!


Don’t worry - It’s a lot like riding a bicycle. Except you can’t ground loop a bicycle!]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-13T17:10:50-04:00 2018-06-13T17:10:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51993#p51993 <![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-13T17:35:04-04:00 2018-06-13T17:35:04-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51994#p51994
drseti wrote: However, first I need to get myself taildragger-current!


You can come out here and I'll ride with you in the Taylorcraft.]]>
drseti wrote: However, first I need to get myself taildragger-current!


You can come out here and I'll ride with you in the Taylorcraft.]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-13T20:03:12-04:00 2018-06-13T20:03:12-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51995#p51995
3Dreaming wrote:
drseti wrote: However, first I need to get myself taildragger-current!


You can come out here and I'll ride with you in the Taylorcraft.

You should meet somewhere in between. It wouldn't take Paul long to get up to speed and he could buy you lunch.]]>
3Dreaming wrote:
drseti wrote: However, first I need to get myself taildragger-current!


You can come out here and I'll ride with you in the Taylorcraft.

You should meet somewhere in between. It wouldn't take Paul long to get up to speed and he could buy you lunch.]]>
<![CDATA[Instructors' Corner :: Re: Sport Pilot DPE shortage :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-13T20:47:15-04:00 2018-06-13T20:47:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5001&p=51996#p51996 <![CDATA[Experimenter's Corner :: Needs Scales for W&B? :: Author ShawnM]]> 2018-06-17T14:39:34-04:00 2018-06-17T14:39:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5118&p=52031#p52031
I personally have made several changes and added several options to my plane since I converted to E-LSA and was also in need of a new W&B so they came in handy for me also.

I know most don't need to do this but I wanted to throw this out for anyone who who is curious or wants to weigh their plane in the greater Tampa area for any reason.]]>

I personally have made several changes and added several options to my plane since I converted to E-LSA and was also in need of a new W&B so they came in handy for me also.

I know most don't need to do this but I wanted to throw this out for anyone who who is curious or wants to weigh their plane in the greater Tampa area for any reason.]]>
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: 2017 FAA COS SLSA report :: Author Izzy]]> 2018-05-31T10:17:22-04:00 2018-05-31T10:17:22-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5098&p=51794#p51794
Admin please remove if the 2017 FAA COS SLSA report has been posted or discussed previously.

A while back I stumbled across the 2017 FAA COS SLSA report - https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/lig ... SA_COS.pdf.

The information is presented starting with a general overview and then get's manufacturer and even incident specific towards the end of the report. I found quite a few interesting facts as to number of incidents in specific phase of flights and also manufacturer specific incident numbers.

I hope you all find this to be an interesting read.]]>

Admin please remove if the 2017 FAA COS SLSA report has been posted or discussed previously.

A while back I stumbled across the 2017 FAA COS SLSA report - https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/lig ... SA_COS.pdf.

The information is presented starting with a general overview and then get's manufacturer and even incident specific towards the end of the report. I found quite a few interesting facts as to number of incidents in specific phase of flights and also manufacturer specific incident numbers.

I hope you all find this to be an interesting read.]]>
<![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 2017 FAA COS SLSA report :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-06-02T14:18:14-04:00 2018-06-02T14:18:14-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5098&p=51825#p51825 <![CDATA[Safety Corner :: Re: 2017 FAA COS SLSA report :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> 2018-06-02T20:25:58-04:00 2018-06-02T20:25:58-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5098&p=51830#p51830 <![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Author FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-27T11:14:26-04:00 2018-05-27T11:14:26-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51704#p51704
But about 6 months ago I started to have slight numbness all the time in my right index and middle fingers. But even a tiny bit of numbness is an issue - I noticed I was having a hard time buttoning my left sleeve and had to ask Karen for help. It’s hard to pick up a coin or washer from a flat surface. I’m dropping things a bit more often. That sort of thing. But I could live with it if I knew it wasn’t going to get any worse.

But it came to a head, so to speak, when I mentioned it to a flight student who is a retired orthopedist. He looked at my right hand and immediate noticed atrophy of my right thumb muscle, combined with limited range of motion. That concerned him and he referred me to a hand and arm specialist. That specialist recommended a nerve conduction study. That study showed severe carpal tunnel and moderate to severe cubital tunnel impingement of nerve impulses. Left arm had issues as well, but is asymptomatic to date.

Those results indicated surgical intervention, and it made sense to do wrist and elbow at the same time. We’re hoping that reverses the atrophy, but it may just stop it from progressing further. I think it’s a few weeks in a sling, then up to 3 months of physical therapy for a full recovery. Flying the Sky Arrow is out for a while, since getting in and out involves supporting my weight with my arms. Drat.

I’m not complaining - orthopedic problems, while annoying, are a walk in the park compared with other issues many people my age start to experience. Almost 70 years of a pretty active lifestyle has to have taken a toll.

Anyway, I’ll report updates post-surgery in case any others have dealt with similar issues.

Wish me luck!]]>

But about 6 months ago I started to have slight numbness all the time in my right index and middle fingers. But even a tiny bit of numbness is an issue - I noticed I was having a hard time buttoning my left sleeve and had to ask Karen for help. It’s hard to pick up a coin or washer from a flat surface. I’m dropping things a bit more often. That sort of thing. But I could live with it if I knew it wasn’t going to get any worse.

But it came to a head, so to speak, when I mentioned it to a flight student who is a retired orthopedist. He looked at my right hand and immediate noticed atrophy of my right thumb muscle, combined with limited range of motion. That concerned him and he referred me to a hand and arm specialist. That specialist recommended a nerve conduction study. That study showed severe carpal tunnel and moderate to severe cubital tunnel impingement of nerve impulses. Left arm had issues as well, but is asymptomatic to date.

Those results indicated surgical intervention, and it made sense to do wrist and elbow at the same time. We’re hoping that reverses the atrophy, but it may just stop it from progressing further. I think it’s a few weeks in a sling, then up to 3 months of physical therapy for a full recovery. Flying the Sky Arrow is out for a while, since getting in and out involves supporting my weight with my arms. Drat.

I’m not complaining - orthopedic problems, while annoying, are a walk in the park compared with other issues many people my age start to experience. Almost 70 years of a pretty active lifestyle has to have taken a toll.

Anyway, I’ll report updates post-surgery in case any others have dealt with similar issues.

Wish me luck!]]>
<![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-27T11:57:17-04:00 2018-05-27T11:57:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51705#p51705
I feel you pain, aging sucks.]]>

I feel you pain, aging sucks.]]>
<![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-27T13:02:29-04:00 2018-05-27T13:02:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51706#p51706 <![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-27T13:22:06-04:00 2018-05-27T13:22:06-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51707#p51707 <![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by Sling 2 Pilot]]> 2018-05-27T16:41:58-04:00 2018-05-27T16:41:58-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51714#p51714 <![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> 2018-05-28T17:45:55-04:00 2018-05-28T17:45:55-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51738#p51738 <![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-28T18:25:00-04:00 2018-05-28T18:25:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51740#p51740
Hopefully just some minor short term pain for some long term gain. Most who have has either of these surgeries have reported good results.

Andy, hope you're recovering well.]]>

Hopefully just some minor short term pain for some long term gain. Most who have has either of these surgeries have reported good results.

Andy, hope you're recovering well.]]>
<![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-28T19:19:17-04:00 2018-05-28T19:19:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51741#p51741
FastEddieB wrote:
Andy, hope you're recovering well.


Things are going as planned so far...good luck with your surgery and recovery too!]]>
FastEddieB wrote:
Andy, hope you're recovering well.


Things are going as planned so far...good luck with your surgery and recovery too!]]>
<![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-30T14:03:40-04:00 2018-05-30T14:03:40-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51779#p51779 <![CDATA[Medical Issues :: Re: Minor surgery scheduled for Wednesday :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-31T10:11:01-04:00 2018-05-31T10:11:01-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5093&p=51793#p51793
Had to get up at 3:45 AM to shower and get out of the house by 4:30 for a 7 AM arrival time in Atlanta. Sat in the waiting room for an hour anyway.

IV in the wrist was no problem. Mild sedative so I don’t recall the injections in my neck and underam to “block” the nerves. I was offered either 7 hours or 15 hours of numbness, and went with 15. Took maybe 30 minutes to lose all the feeling and mobility in my right arm. It was explained they were doing carpal and cubital “releases”, with a “bisection” of two nerves in the elbow to gain access to the cubital tunnel. Or something like that.

Wheeled into the operating suite and scooted onto the table. This is where it got weird. I had my arms crossed on my chest, with still a tiny bit of tingling on the back of my right hand. I closed my eyes for a moment, then looked right to where an attendant was holding an arm! It was the weirdest feeling, thinking my arm was one place but seeing it in another. I remember learning about proprioceptors, that enable us to make a mental model of where our body is in space. When those get suppressed, it’s really weird - I can sympathize with people with “phantom limbs” and the like.

Anyway, completely out for the surgery. Doctor stopped by afterwards to say the nerves looked healthy - he may have used the word “effused” or “perfusion”. Karen remembers he said they looked pink, which was good. He said at least it should stop the progression of the atrophy and numbness, with a possibility of reversing it. The trip home was uneventful. I couldn’t move my fingers until evening, and took one Percocet as instructed right then. Today no need for any painkillers so far.

Further good news is that I misunderstood about the sling - it only had to stay on until I regained feeling in my arm, so I’m about to remove it. Dressings and wrap stay in place for 2 weeks when I have a followup. Just no lifting with that arm for a while.

So far, so good!]]>

Had to get up at 3:45 AM to shower and get out of the house by 4:30 for a 7 AM arrival time in Atlanta. Sat in the waiting room for an hour anyway.

IV in the wrist was no problem. Mild sedative so I don’t recall the injections in my neck and underam to “block” the nerves. I was offered either 7 hours or 15 hours of numbness, and went with 15. Took maybe 30 minutes to lose all the feeling and mobility in my right arm. It was explained they were doing carpal and cubital “releases”, with a “bisection” of two nerves in the elbow to gain access to the cubital tunnel. Or something like that.

Wheeled into the operating suite and scooted onto the table. This is where it got weird. I had my arms crossed on my chest, with still a tiny bit of tingling on the back of my right hand. I closed my eyes for a moment, then looked right to where an attendant was holding an arm! It was the weirdest feeling, thinking my arm was one place but seeing it in another. I remember learning about proprioceptors, that enable us to make a mental model of where our body is in space. When those get suppressed, it’s really weird - I can sympathize with people with “phantom limbs” and the like.

Anyway, completely out for the surgery. Doctor stopped by afterwards to say the nerves looked healthy - he may have used the word “effused” or “perfusion”. Karen remembers he said they looked pink, which was good. He said at least it should stop the progression of the atrophy and numbness, with a possibility of reversing it. The trip home was uneventful. I couldn’t move my fingers until evening, and took one Percocet as instructed right then. Today no need for any painkillers so far.

Further good news is that I misunderstood about the sling - it only had to stay on until I regained feeling in my arm, so I’m about to remove it. Dressings and wrap stay in place for 2 weeks when I have a followup. Just no lifting with that arm for a while.

So far, so good!]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: CHT temps :: Author Warmi]]> 2018-05-26T21:28:00-04:00 2018-05-26T21:28:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51703#p51703
Well, predictably, while climbing out at 95F outside temp,and after waiting in line for about 10 minutes on the ground , my CHT went into 240s ( yellow ) and then briefly hit 246 - all that while I was still trying to reach pattern altitude.
The usual remedy, lowering the nose and shallowing the climb, worked just fine but I am wondering how other folks EFIs warning ranges are set up , or rather simply, at what CHT temp do you actually take some action to lower the temps ..240... 245?

Interestingly , my oil temps never go into yellow , just the CHTs...]]>

Well, predictably, while climbing out at 95F outside temp,and after waiting in line for about 10 minutes on the ground , my CHT went into 240s ( yellow ) and then briefly hit 246 - all that while I was still trying to reach pattern altitude.
The usual remedy, lowering the nose and shallowing the climb, worked just fine but I am wondering how other folks EFIs warning ranges are set up , or rather simply, at what CHT temp do you actually take some action to lower the temps ..240... 245?

Interestingly , my oil temps never go into yellow , just the CHTs...]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-27T13:24:16-04:00 2018-05-27T13:24:16-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51708#p51708 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-05-27T14:21:15-04:00 2018-05-27T14:21:15-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51709#p51709
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.


Temperature issues are more often a airframe related issue than an engine brand issue. I know of several Continental engines that have oil temperature issues. I know of one in particular that the oil temperature will reach red line in about 10 minutes of hard flying with outside air temps above 85°.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.


Temperature issues are more often a airframe related issue than an engine brand issue. I know of several Continental engines that have oil temperature issues. I know of one in particular that the oil temperature will reach red line in about 10 minutes of hard flying with outside air temps above 85°.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-27T14:40:41-04:00 2018-05-27T14:40:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51710#p51710
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.


Temperature issues are more often a airframe related issue than an engine brand issue. I know of several Continental engines that have oil temperature issues. I know of one in particular that the oil temperature will reach red line in about 10 minutes of hard flying with outside air temps above 85°.

Of course you do. In flying Continentals and Lycomings for 54 years, I've never had an overheating issue. Who doesn't have over-heating issues flying Rotax in the summer? I flew the Remos 2 1/2 hours a couple weeks ago and could never get out of the yellow. It's the nature of the engine and cooling system.

Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post? Weird. Please put me on your ignore list.]]>
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.


Temperature issues are more often a airframe related issue than an engine brand issue. I know of several Continental engines that have oil temperature issues. I know of one in particular that the oil temperature will reach red line in about 10 minutes of hard flying with outside air temps above 85°.

Of course you do. In flying Continentals and Lycomings for 54 years, I've never had an overheating issue. Who doesn't have over-heating issues flying Rotax in the summer? I flew the Remos 2 1/2 hours a couple weeks ago and could never get out of the yellow. It's the nature of the engine and cooling system.

Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post? Weird. Please put me on your ignore list.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> 2018-05-27T16:03:25-04:00 2018-05-27T16:03:25-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51711#p51711
TimTaylor wrote:Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post?

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TimTaylor wrote:Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post?

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<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-05-27T16:41:37-04:00 2018-05-27T16:41:37-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51713#p51713 "It's the nature of the engine and cooling system."

No it isn't. It's poor setup, poor take off techniques and poor understanding of the engine and poor understanding of what the numbers really mean. Sometimes it's the aircraft MFG's fault for poor setup. Some owners have their max and minimum values set wrong. When done right my FD CTSW would never get over 235F on a hot summer day in Tucson, AZ. Then drop down to 218F in cruise.

The 240F's is no big issue. So long as you try not to go over 250F then you're okay. Once level then it should go down. 250F should be red. Up to that is yellow and that's okay. I find many oil hoses under the fire sleeve flattened which reduces flow which raises temps. These can be opened with a spring placed inside the hose to keep it open. I just had an FD CTLSi (fuel injection) with a flattened oil hose.]]>
"It's the nature of the engine and cooling system."

No it isn't. It's poor setup, poor take off techniques and poor understanding of the engine and poor understanding of what the numbers really mean. Sometimes it's the aircraft MFG's fault for poor setup. Some owners have their max and minimum values set wrong. When done right my FD CTSW would never get over 235F on a hot summer day in Tucson, AZ. Then drop down to 218F in cruise.

The 240F's is no big issue. So long as you try not to go over 250F then you're okay. Once level then it should go down. 250F should be red. Up to that is yellow and that's okay. I find many oil hoses under the fire sleeve flattened which reduces flow which raises temps. These can be opened with a spring placed inside the hose to keep it open. I just had an FD CTLSi (fuel injection) with a flattened oil hose.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-27T16:58:19-04:00 2018-05-27T17:06:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51715#p51715
Wm.Ince wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post?

Do you ever have anything of value to add or just jump on the Tom Baker band wagon?]]>
Wm.Ince wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post?

Do you ever have anything of value to add or just jump on the Tom Baker band wagon?]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-27T17:00:07-04:00 2018-05-27T17:14:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51716#p51716
roger lee wrote:Quote:
"It's the nature of the engine and cooling system."

No it isn't. It's poor setup, poor take off techniques and poor understanding of the engine and poor understanding of what the numbers really mean. Sometimes it's the aircraft MFG's fault for poor setup. Some owners have their max and minimum values set wrong. When done right my FD CTSW would never get over 235F on a hot summer day in Tucson, AZ. Then drop down to 218F in cruise.

The 240F's is no big issue. So long as you try not to go over 250F then you're okay. Once level then it should go down. 250F should be red. Up to that is yellow and that's okay. I find many oil hoses under the fire sleeve flattened which reduces flow which raises temps. These can be opened with a spring placed inside the hose to keep it open. I just had an FD CTLSi (fuel injection) with a flattened oil hose.

All I know is there are numerous post and threads on the internet about Rotax over-heating issues. I have never seen any regarding Continental or Lycoming engines nor have I ever experienced any. Say what you want, but Rotax engines in LSA frequently have over-heating issues, and that's what the OP is asking about. I guess a Rotax in a SkyCatcher would never over-heat because the Continental doesn't.]]>
roger lee wrote:Quote:
"It's the nature of the engine and cooling system."

No it isn't. It's poor setup, poor take off techniques and poor understanding of the engine and poor understanding of what the numbers really mean. Sometimes it's the aircraft MFG's fault for poor setup. Some owners have their max and minimum values set wrong. When done right my FD CTSW would never get over 235F on a hot summer day in Tucson, AZ. Then drop down to 218F in cruise.

The 240F's is no big issue. So long as you try not to go over 250F then you're okay. Once level then it should go down. 250F should be red. Up to that is yellow and that's okay. I find many oil hoses under the fire sleeve flattened which reduces flow which raises temps. These can be opened with a spring placed inside the hose to keep it open. I just had an FD CTLSi (fuel injection) with a flattened oil hose.

All I know is there are numerous post and threads on the internet about Rotax over-heating issues. I have never seen any regarding Continental or Lycoming engines nor have I ever experienced any. Say what you want, but Rotax engines in LSA frequently have over-heating issues, and that's what the OP is asking about. I guess a Rotax in a SkyCatcher would never over-heat because the Continental doesn't.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-27T17:01:50-04:00 2018-05-27T17:01:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51717#p51717
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.
]]>
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.
]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-27T17:09:31-04:00 2018-05-27T17:09:31-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51719#p51719
My original post was basically inquiring more of what constitutes a reasonably green/yellow/red setup range for CHTs for Rotax engines - it seems every installation comes with different numbers :)]]>

My original post was basically inquiring more of what constitutes a reasonably green/yellow/red setup range for CHTs for Rotax engines - it seems every installation comes with different numbers :)]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-27T20:33:59-04:00 2018-05-27T20:33:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51722#p51722
My Sting hit the yellow CHT once after sitting out in a sunny 95F day for a couple hours before I fired it up. I hit yellow just as I was lifting off. Went back to green pretty quick during my cruise climb. This is with 10 1/2 years of ownership.

Do you still have your heater muff attached? This will make a few degrees difference.]]>

My Sting hit the yellow CHT once after sitting out in a sunny 95F day for a couple hours before I fired it up. I hit yellow just as I was lifting off. Went back to green pretty quick during my cruise climb. This is with 10 1/2 years of ownership.

Do you still have your heater muff attached? This will make a few degrees difference.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-27T20:43:44-04:00 2018-05-27T20:43:44-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51723#p51723
Hopefully taking off the muff will help a bit ...Sting S4 is supposed to have better air flow around the engine ..or so it says in the marketing materials :)]]>

Hopefully taking off the muff will help a bit ...Sting S4 is supposed to have better air flow around the engine ..or so it says in the marketing materials :)]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-27T21:13:34-04:00 2018-05-27T21:13:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51725#p51725 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-27T21:42:11-04:00 2018-05-27T21:42:11-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51727#p51727
When it is above 85 F , a sustained steep climb of about 1300 feet at 65 knots and full power will almost always result in CHTs reaching 243 or so - leveling off will bring these down to 230s within a minute or two.

Last fall, after bought the plane I had my mechanic replace Evans with antifreeze - I actually had problems with plane running really cool during winter months (couldn't reach 200 F ) but now it is back to being hot - will see what difference getting rid of the heater muff will do.

Thanks for your insight.]]>

When it is above 85 F , a sustained steep climb of about 1300 feet at 65 knots and full power will almost always result in CHTs reaching 243 or so - leveling off will bring these down to 230s within a minute or two.

Last fall, after bought the plane I had my mechanic replace Evans with antifreeze - I actually had problems with plane running really cool during winter months (couldn't reach 200 F ) but now it is back to being hot - will see what difference getting rid of the heater muff will do.

Thanks for your insight.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-05-27T23:18:33-04:00 2018-05-27T23:18:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51728#p51728
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.


Temperature issues are more often a airframe related issue than an engine brand issue. I know of several Continental engines that have oil temperature issues. I know of one in particular that the oil temperature will reach red line in about 10 minutes of hard flying with outside air temps above 85°.

Of course you do. In flying Continentals and Lycomings for 54 years, I've never had an overheating issue. Who doesn't have over-heating issues flying Rotax in the summer? I flew the Remos 2 1/2 hours a couple weeks ago and could never get out of the yellow. It's the nature of the engine and cooling system.

Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post? Weird. Please put me on your ignore list.


I have owned 3 CT's, and none of them had temp issues even in triple digit outside air temps.

I have never felt the need to put anyone one on the ignore list. As long as this is an open forum I will feel free to quote anyone I please, as long as I feel I can contribute something of value.

In your 54 years of flying Continentals and Lycomings you never had an overheating issue, that you knew of. Knowing about the issue is the key. In the last few years engine monitoring has gotten much more accessible. Often times when modern engine monitoring is put on old airplanes like you used to fly with no issues, it reveals that CHT temps are much higher than anyone had previously thought. Often times they were very close or exceeding limits set forth in the engine operation manual. Most of the Rotax engine installations use modern engine monitoring, so comparing them against older aircraft without the monitoring is not a fair comparison.

In my 35+ years as a pilot and mechanic I have been around many different airplanes, standard category, experimental, and S-LSA. The same model of engine in one airframe compared to an other has a completely diferent temperature profile.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:This is one reason why I prefer the Continental.


Temperature issues are more often a airframe related issue than an engine brand issue. I know of several Continental engines that have oil temperature issues. I know of one in particular that the oil temperature will reach red line in about 10 minutes of hard flying with outside air temps above 85°.

Of course you do. In flying Continentals and Lycomings for 54 years, I've never had an overheating issue. Who doesn't have over-heating issues flying Rotax in the summer? I flew the Remos 2 1/2 hours a couple weeks ago and could never get out of the yellow. It's the nature of the engine and cooling system.

Why do you feel compelled to refute everything I post? Weird. Please put me on your ignore list.


I have owned 3 CT's, and none of them had temp issues even in triple digit outside air temps.

I have never felt the need to put anyone one on the ignore list. As long as this is an open forum I will feel free to quote anyone I please, as long as I feel I can contribute something of value.

In your 54 years of flying Continentals and Lycomings you never had an overheating issue, that you knew of. Knowing about the issue is the key. In the last few years engine monitoring has gotten much more accessible. Often times when modern engine monitoring is put on old airplanes like you used to fly with no issues, it reveals that CHT temps are much higher than anyone had previously thought. Often times they were very close or exceeding limits set forth in the engine operation manual. Most of the Rotax engine installations use modern engine monitoring, so comparing them against older aircraft without the monitoring is not a fair comparison.

In my 35+ years as a pilot and mechanic I have been around many different airplanes, standard category, experimental, and S-LSA. The same model of engine in one airframe compared to an other has a completely diferent temperature profile.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-28T11:18:46-04:00 2018-05-28T11:18:46-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51732#p51732
Warmi wrote:When it is above 85 F , a sustained steep climb of about 1300 feet at 65 knots and full power will almost always result in CHTs reaching 243 or so - leveling off will bring these down to 230s within a minute or two.

Two techniques you might consider:

* Climb at the POH recommended IAS of 75 kts. 65 kts will put a lot of load on the engine that will turn into heat in a hurry. I generally climb at 65 ish until the end of the runway, then go at 75-80 to pattern altitude. Cruise climb is probably in 85-90 range.
* Back the throttle off around 1/2 inch once you've hit a safe altitude. If you look at the torque/power curve of the 912 ULS you'll see that this area is much less efficient so generates more heat than power.]]>
Warmi wrote:When it is above 85 F , a sustained steep climb of about 1300 feet at 65 knots and full power will almost always result in CHTs reaching 243 or so - leveling off will bring these down to 230s within a minute or two.

Two techniques you might consider:

* Climb at the POH recommended IAS of 75 kts. 65 kts will put a lot of load on the engine that will turn into heat in a hurry. I generally climb at 65 ish until the end of the runway, then go at 75-80 to pattern altitude. Cruise climb is probably in 85-90 range.
* Back the throttle off around 1/2 inch once you've hit a safe altitude. If you look at the torque/power curve of the 912 ULS you'll see that this area is much less efficient so generates more heat than power.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-05-28T12:35:52-04:00 2018-05-28T12:35:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51733#p51733
I guess after winter flying in -2000 DA conditions where 60-65 climbs was all I was using to even have a chance to reach 200 F temps, it takes a bit of mental excersize to adjust to the new reality -on the plus side, many more flyable days during summer hehe]]>

I guess after winter flying in -2000 DA conditions where 60-65 climbs was all I was using to even have a chance to reach 200 F temps, it takes a bit of mental excersize to adjust to the new reality -on the plus side, many more flyable days during summer hehe]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-28T14:02:29-04:00 2018-05-28T14:02:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51734#p51734
1) They say that “ignorance is bliss”. My Sky Arrow only has a “CYL TEMP” warning light, and in 500 hours and 11 years it’s never illuminated. I have no idea what my CHT’s are at any given time, only a proxy via oil and coolant temp, which can venture into the yellow but have never redlined. My POH says the warning light should illuminate at 266°, +/- 9°.

2) My SOP is to cruise climb at between 75-80 kias once at a safe altitude. The increased forward speed helps with cooling, and actually helps reduce trip time unless the winds aloft are quite favorable and I’m in a hurry to reach them.

3) Not sure about the recommendation to reduce power in the climb. It will necessitate a slightly higher AOA, which may slightly impede the flow of air into the cowling. In some planes full throttle results in an automatic enrichening of the mixture, which pulling back even slightly may defeat. Maybe there’s something quirky with the ROTAX whereby climbing at partial power may aid in cooling, but in general it’s not a good idea unless the manufacturer specifies it.

4) In big bore Continentals, the goal is often to keep CHT’s below 400° in the climb. Redline is 460°. Not sure why the limits on the ROTAX are so comparatively low, though I suspect it has to do with the expected added cooling from the water cooling system.]]>

1) They say that “ignorance is bliss”. My Sky Arrow only has a “CYL TEMP” warning light, and in 500 hours and 11 years it’s never illuminated. I have no idea what my CHT’s are at any given time, only a proxy via oil and coolant temp, which can venture into the yellow but have never redlined. My POH says the warning light should illuminate at 266°, +/- 9°.

2) My SOP is to cruise climb at between 75-80 kias once at a safe altitude. The increased forward speed helps with cooling, and actually helps reduce trip time unless the winds aloft are quite favorable and I’m in a hurry to reach them.

3) Not sure about the recommendation to reduce power in the climb. It will necessitate a slightly higher AOA, which may slightly impede the flow of air into the cowling. In some planes full throttle results in an automatic enrichening of the mixture, which pulling back even slightly may defeat. Maybe there’s something quirky with the ROTAX whereby climbing at partial power may aid in cooling, but in general it’s not a good idea unless the manufacturer specifies it.

4) In big bore Continentals, the goal is often to keep CHT’s below 400° in the climb. Redline is 460°. Not sure why the limits on the ROTAX are so comparatively low, though I suspect it has to do with the expected added cooling from the water cooling system.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-05-28T15:27:02-04:00 2018-05-28T15:27:02-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51735#p51735
FastEddieB wrote:Random thoughts... 4) In big bore Continentals, the goal is often to keep CHT’s below 400° in the climb. Redline is 460°. Not sure why the limits on the ROTAX are so comparatively low, though I suspect it has to do with the expected added cooling from the water cooling system.


There are several factors envolved, but the primary reason is the placement of the temperature probe.

Depending on the vintage of the Rotax engine they are either measuring CHT or coolant temp. The later style heads that were introduced when the 912iS came out measure actual coolant temp. The earlier heads measure CHT, but it is in an area near a coolant passage. The reason for the lower temps is because of the coolant. It will start to boil as temps get to high and the cooling effect goes away causing damage to the cylinder head.

Lycoming and Continental measure at a point where the temperature is hotter.]]>
FastEddieB wrote:Random thoughts... 4) In big bore Continentals, the goal is often to keep CHT’s below 400° in the climb. Redline is 460°. Not sure why the limits on the ROTAX are so comparatively low, though I suspect it has to do with the expected added cooling from the water cooling system.


There are several factors envolved, but the primary reason is the placement of the temperature probe.

Depending on the vintage of the Rotax engine they are either measuring CHT or coolant temp. The later style heads that were introduced when the 912iS came out measure actual coolant temp. The earlier heads measure CHT, but it is in an area near a coolant passage. The reason for the lower temps is because of the coolant. It will start to boil as temps get to high and the cooling effect goes away causing damage to the cylinder head.

Lycoming and Continental measure at a point where the temperature is hotter.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-28T15:59:04-04:00 2018-05-28T15:59:04-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51736#p51736
My plane has a water temperature gauge and an oil temperature gauge. I assumed the sensor for the “CYL TEMP” light used a separate probe to directly measure CHT, but I’ll check on that.

Edited to add...

My AMM only refers to a CHT gauge, in a panel layout slightly different from mine. No mention of a water temperature gauge.

I suspect my water temp gauge may indicate what others are referring to as CHT.

Image]]>

My plane has a water temperature gauge and an oil temperature gauge. I assumed the sensor for the “CYL TEMP” light used a separate probe to directly measure CHT, but I’ll check on that.

Edited to add...

My AMM only refers to a CHT gauge, in a panel layout slightly different from mine. No mention of a water temperature gauge.

I suspect my water temp gauge may indicate what others are referring to as CHT.

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-29T15:56:20-04:00 2018-05-29T15:56:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51766#p51766
FastEddieB wrote:3) Not sure about the recommendation to reduce power in the climb. It will necessitate a slightly higher AOA, which may slightly impede the flow of air into the cowling. In some planes full throttle results in an automatic enrichening of the mixture, which pulling back even slightly may defeat. Maybe there’s something quirky with the ROTAX whereby climbing at partial power may aid in cooling, but in general it’s not a good idea unless the manufacturer specifies it.


I agree. Here in steamy Georgia I have found in my CT that if the temps start getting toasty, reducing power does nothing at all to reduce the temps, and just increases the amount of time spent in the climb at those higher temps. Flattening the climb *does* have a good effect, and in the Summer I usually use a 90kt climb unless I'm trying to get to altitude in a hurry for some reason. If it's particularly hot I have even used 100kt climbs, or alternated between 90kt and 100kt on long climbs where the temps start coming up even at 90kt.

The good news on my airplane is that in hot weather the oil temps want to be 230°F or higher, but usually they don't want to get above 245°F unless I provoke them into it by climbing very aggressively. So it's pretty easy to get the temps to come down by shallowing the climb when the temps get over 240°F.

Altitude is your friend when it's hot. When flying long distances in hot weather, your temps will be much more moderate if you take the time to climb up high, even if it means a shallow climb. Planning your flights in early morning or late evening can help too, now that we have nice long summer days!]]>
FastEddieB wrote:3) Not sure about the recommendation to reduce power in the climb. It will necessitate a slightly higher AOA, which may slightly impede the flow of air into the cowling. In some planes full throttle results in an automatic enrichening of the mixture, which pulling back even slightly may defeat. Maybe there’s something quirky with the ROTAX whereby climbing at partial power may aid in cooling, but in general it’s not a good idea unless the manufacturer specifies it.


I agree. Here in steamy Georgia I have found in my CT that if the temps start getting toasty, reducing power does nothing at all to reduce the temps, and just increases the amount of time spent in the climb at those higher temps. Flattening the climb *does* have a good effect, and in the Summer I usually use a 90kt climb unless I'm trying to get to altitude in a hurry for some reason. If it's particularly hot I have even used 100kt climbs, or alternated between 90kt and 100kt on long climbs where the temps start coming up even at 90kt.

The good news on my airplane is that in hot weather the oil temps want to be 230°F or higher, but usually they don't want to get above 245°F unless I provoke them into it by climbing very aggressively. So it's pretty easy to get the temps to come down by shallowing the climb when the temps get over 240°F.

Altitude is your friend when it's hot. When flying long distances in hot weather, your temps will be much more moderate if you take the time to climb up high, even if it means a shallow climb. Planning your flights in early morning or late evening can help too, now that we have nice long summer days!]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-29T16:03:57-04:00 2018-05-29T16:03:57-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51767#p51767
Of course that's generic advice, and some engines are more overbuilt than others.]]>

Of course that's generic advice, and some engines are more overbuilt than others.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-29T18:25:51-04:00 2018-05-29T18:25:51-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51770#p51770 YMMV.

The Rotax power and torque curves: Image

Note the slope of the HP becomes flatter after around 51000 rpm and torque actually decreases after 5000 rpm. This indicates that there is less efficiency at higher RPM especially if you match it up with the increased rate of fuel burn. Less efficient can lead to more BTU of heat per incremental RPM as the energy has to go somewhere. Is it a big amount -- probably not.]]>
YMMV.

The Rotax power and torque curves: Image

Note the slope of the HP becomes flatter after around 51000 rpm and torque actually decreases after 5000 rpm. This indicates that there is less efficiency at higher RPM especially if you match it up with the increased rate of fuel burn. Less efficient can lead to more BTU of heat per incremental RPM as the energy has to go somewhere. Is it a big amount -- probably not.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-29T18:46:02-04:00 2018-05-29T18:46:02-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51771#p51771 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-29T18:51:08-04:00 2018-05-29T18:51:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51772#p51772 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: CHT temps :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-05-30T13:09:55-04:00 2018-05-30T13:09:55-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5092&p=51777#p51777 throttle.jpg

Took off today with ground temperature right at 90F (on its way to 102F) climbed to 3500' with air temp at 78F. Max CHT during climb of 220F. With the throttle backed off from 1500' to 3500', I was climbing at 1000 fpm at 80-85 KIAS. I've been to lazy to pull off the heater muff which will usually drop it a handful of degrees as well.

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throttle.jpg (175.47 KiB)


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throttle.jpg

Took off today with ground temperature right at 90F (on its way to 102F) climbed to 3500' with air temp at 78F. Max CHT during climb of 220F. With the throttle backed off from 1500' to 3500', I was climbing at 1000 fpm at 80-85 KIAS. I've been to lazy to pull off the heater muff which will usually drop it a handful of degrees as well.

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throttle.jpg (175.47 KiB)


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<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Author JJay]]> 2018-06-03T15:00:05-04:00 2018-06-03T15:00:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51853#p51853
I can always latch one side or the other but then the second side is ridiculously difficult. I push and pull, start all over, try different latch orders, and so on. It is difficult to get the latch down far enough to get under the pin/plate it latches to. Sometimes I waste 10 minutes trying to get it latched and It's really cutting into my enjoyment of the plane. I think my problem is that the front of the canopy, when closed has a very large gap (picture of my fat finger pointing it out attached).

N686N Canopy Gap.jpg


It's as if the hinges are mounted too high on the firewall, but they look like they are where the factory put them. They don't look bent or anything. They don't appear to have any way to adjust them.

Am I correct, that doesn't look right?
Any ideas what to do?

(Thanks in advance - love this forum!)

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N686N Canopy Gap.jpg (158.24 KiB)


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I can always latch one side or the other but then the second side is ridiculously difficult. I push and pull, start all over, try different latch orders, and so on. It is difficult to get the latch down far enough to get under the pin/plate it latches to. Sometimes I waste 10 minutes trying to get it latched and It's really cutting into my enjoyment of the plane. I think my problem is that the front of the canopy, when closed has a very large gap (picture of my fat finger pointing it out attached).

N686N Canopy Gap.jpg


It's as if the hinges are mounted too high on the firewall, but they look like they are where the factory put them. They don't look bent or anything. They don't appear to have any way to adjust them.

Am I correct, that doesn't look right?
Any ideas what to do?

(Thanks in advance - love this forum!)

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N686N Canopy Gap.jpg (158.24 KiB)


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<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-03T19:57:32-04:00 2018-06-03T19:57:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51858#p51858 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-06-03T19:58:14-04:00 2018-06-03T19:58:14-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51859#p51859 http://sting.aero/, it looks like the hinge is sprung somehow. Latching the canopy securely should not be an ordeal.

My Zodiac canopy has similar hinges and there is a watertight neoprene seal between the canopy and the cowling. Securely latching the canopy is a single lever between the seats operating a torque tube that simultaneously latches both sides with an over-center cam action.]]>
http://sting.aero/, it looks like the hinge is sprung somehow. Latching the canopy securely should not be an ordeal.

My Zodiac canopy has similar hinges and there is a watertight neoprene seal between the canopy and the cowling. Securely latching the canopy is a single lever between the seats operating a torque tube that simultaneously latches both sides with an over-center cam action.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-03T20:04:50-04:00 2018-06-03T20:04:50-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51860#p51860 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-03T20:30:20-04:00 2018-06-03T20:30:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51861#p51861 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-06-03T22:17:38-04:00 2018-06-03T22:17:38-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51862#p51862
In the meantime, is the moulding bunched up any where that might cause some binding?]]>

In the meantime, is the moulding bunched up any where that might cause some binding?]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-06-04T08:18:20-04:00 2018-06-04T08:18:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51865#p51865 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by JJay]]> 2018-06-04T15:04:00-04:00 2018-06-04T15:04:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51866#p51866
My S3 has he same canopy structure. I plan on going out to the hangar tomorrow and will take a closer look at mine. Could you post pics of you hinges?

In the meantime, is the moulding bunched up any where that might cause some binding?


Here's the only picture I have of the left side hinge. The canopy is in the open position. Pretty simple construction. I plan to put a camera under there and get video of it opening and closing to see if I see anything unusual.

I don't see any bunching up or rubbing anywhere around the perimeter of the canopy.

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N686N Canopy Hinge.jpg (238.06 KiB)


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My S3 has he same canopy structure. I plan on going out to the hangar tomorrow and will take a closer look at mine. Could you post pics of you hinges?

In the meantime, is the moulding bunched up any where that might cause some binding?


Here's the only picture I have of the left side hinge. The canopy is in the open position. Pretty simple construction. I plan to put a camera under there and get video of it opening and closing to see if I see anything unusual.

I don't see any bunching up or rubbing anywhere around the perimeter of the canopy.

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N686N Canopy Hinge.jpg (238.06 KiB)


]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by drdehave]]> 2018-06-04T21:40:43-04:00 2018-06-04T21:51:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51868#p51868 Canopy Closed 003 (1328 x 747).jpg
I thought I recognized that N-number. That Sting was out here next to me, in Grass Valley, CA, for quite a while and has certainly been through some owners.

I think you have a definite problem, there. That gap is way too wide. It's likely been "sprung" (wind can do it!) or replaced (was that Sting ever damaged), and not adjusted correctly. I don't know the adjustment procedure, and it's not in the MM or "How Tos, but Bill Canino or Mark Miller at Sportaire should be able to tell you. He told me once 7 years ago--and I've forgotten.

Attached is the picture of MY 2007 (TLUSA145), just now, in the closed and latched (from INSIDE) position. My "gap" is 1/8th inch, at most.

You really should get this addressed before some weird wind suction event rips that canopy off when you forget to buckle down one of the side latches. I once forgot to latch one side and we had to hang onto the canopy to keep just that from happening.

Keep us posted of what you learn.

Attachments



Canopy Closed 003 (1328 x 747).jpg (99.29 KiB)


]]>
Canopy Closed 003 (1328 x 747).jpg
I thought I recognized that N-number. That Sting was out here next to me, in Grass Valley, CA, for quite a while and has certainly been through some owners.

I think you have a definite problem, there. That gap is way too wide. It's likely been "sprung" (wind can do it!) or replaced (was that Sting ever damaged), and not adjusted correctly. I don't know the adjustment procedure, and it's not in the MM or "How Tos, but Bill Canino or Mark Miller at Sportaire should be able to tell you. He told me once 7 years ago--and I've forgotten.

Attached is the picture of MY 2007 (TLUSA145), just now, in the closed and latched (from INSIDE) position. My "gap" is 1/8th inch, at most.

You really should get this addressed before some weird wind suction event rips that canopy off when you forget to buckle down one of the side latches. I once forgot to latch one side and we had to hang onto the canopy to keep just that from happening.

Keep us posted of what you learn.

Attachments



Canopy Closed 003 (1328 x 747).jpg (99.29 KiB)


]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by dstclair]]> 2018-06-04T21:51:00-04:00 2018-06-04T21:51:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51869#p51869
Also, lube the latch with white lithium.]]>

Also, lube the latch with white lithium.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by drdehave]]> 2018-06-04T21:53:34-04:00 2018-06-04T21:53:34-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51870#p51870 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by JJay]]> 2018-06-05T11:05:23-04:00 2018-06-05T11:05:23-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51874#p51874
I'll strike up a conversation with Bill.

Thanks for all the input.]]>

I'll strike up a conversation with Bill.

Thanks for all the input.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by JJay]]> 2018-06-05T11:27:29-04:00 2018-06-05T11:27:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51875#p51875
I thought I recognized that N-number. That Sting was out here next to me, in Grass Valley, CA, for quite a while and has certainly been through some owners.

I think you have a definite problem, there. That gap is way too wide. It's likely been "sprung" (wind can do it!) or replaced (was that Sting ever damaged), and not adjusted correctly. I don't know the adjustment procedure, and it's not in the MM or "How Tos, but Bill Canino or Mark Miller at Sportaire should be able to tell you. He told me once 7 years ago--and I've forgotten.

Attached is the picture of MY 2007 (TLUSA145), just now, in the closed and latched (from INSIDE) position. My "gap" is 1/8th inch, at most.


Yes, this plane (TLUSA140) lived in CA for a good part of its life. Interesting that you recognize it! I don't know all of its stops on its way to FL, but I bought it from a guy near Ocala, and now it lives near Jacksonville. Nothing in the logs indicates it was ever damaged.

Thanks for the picture of your canopy. Now I have plenty of data to describe my problem to the guys in Little Rock. I don't really get how those hinges can be "sprung" since they're just metal tubes connected to a bracket. I hope Bill can shed some light.]]>
I thought I recognized that N-number. That Sting was out here next to me, in Grass Valley, CA, for quite a while and has certainly been through some owners.

I think you have a definite problem, there. That gap is way too wide. It's likely been "sprung" (wind can do it!) or replaced (was that Sting ever damaged), and not adjusted correctly. I don't know the adjustment procedure, and it's not in the MM or "How Tos, but Bill Canino or Mark Miller at Sportaire should be able to tell you. He told me once 7 years ago--and I've forgotten.

Attached is the picture of MY 2007 (TLUSA145), just now, in the closed and latched (from INSIDE) position. My "gap" is 1/8th inch, at most.


Yes, this plane (TLUSA140) lived in CA for a good part of its life. Interesting that you recognize it! I don't know all of its stops on its way to FL, but I bought it from a guy near Ocala, and now it lives near Jacksonville. Nothing in the logs indicates it was ever damaged.

Thanks for the picture of your canopy. Now I have plenty of data to describe my problem to the guys in Little Rock. I don't really get how those hinges can be "sprung" since they're just metal tubes connected to a bracket. I hope Bill can shed some light.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-05T12:47:21-04:00 2018-06-05T12:47:21-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51876#p51876
https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N686N]]>

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N686N]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-05T13:01:39-04:00 2018-06-05T13:01:39-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51877#p51877
JJay wrote:Yes, this plane (TLUSA140) lived in CA for a good part of its life. Interesting that you recognize it! I don't know all of its stops on its way to FL, but I bought it from a guy near Ocala, and now it lives near Jacksonville. Nothing in the logs indicates it was ever damaged.

Thanks for the picture of your canopy. Now I have plenty of data to describe my problem to the guys in Little Rock. I don't really get how those hinges can be "sprung" since they're just metal tubes connected to a bracket. I hope Bill can shed some light.


JJay, I knew the previous owner, Eugene, and even shared a hangar with him at X35 for a while until he bought his C172. Hopefully with the knowledge here on the forum you'll get this sorted out soon.]]>
JJay wrote:Yes, this plane (TLUSA140) lived in CA for a good part of its life. Interesting that you recognize it! I don't know all of its stops on its way to FL, but I bought it from a guy near Ocala, and now it lives near Jacksonville. Nothing in the logs indicates it was ever damaged.

Thanks for the picture of your canopy. Now I have plenty of data to describe my problem to the guys in Little Rock. I don't really get how those hinges can be "sprung" since they're just metal tubes connected to a bracket. I hope Bill can shed some light.


JJay, I knew the previous owner, Eugene, and even shared a hangar with him at X35 for a while until he bought his C172. Hopefully with the knowledge here on the forum you'll get this sorted out soon.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by JJay]]> 2018-06-05T16:41:00-04:00 2018-06-05T16:41:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51881#p51881
JJay, I knew the previous owner, Eugene, and even shared a hangar with him at X35 for a while until he bought his C172. Hopefully with the knowledge here on the forum you'll get this sorted out soon.


Hi ShawnM - yes, Eugene is a great guy. Haven't talked to him in months. Glad to hear he got a 172, I knew that's what he was looking for.

Are you still at X35? What do you fly?]]>
JJay, I knew the previous owner, Eugene, and even shared a hangar with him at X35 for a while until he bought his C172. Hopefully with the knowledge here on the forum you'll get this sorted out soon.


Hi ShawnM - yes, Eugene is a great guy. Haven't talked to him in months. Glad to hear he got a 172, I knew that's what he was looking for.

Are you still at X35? What do you fly?]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by JJay]]> 2018-06-05T16:49:49-04:00 2018-06-05T16:49:49-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51882#p51882
Flightaware maintains what amounts to history of the plane registration , not sure how accurate it is thought ..

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N686N


Thanks Warmi. I didn't know Flightaware did that! The information there seems to jive with what the previous owner told me when I bought the plane. Now I have an accurate history. Awesome!]]>
Flightaware maintains what amounts to history of the plane registration , not sure how accurate it is thought ..

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N686N


Thanks Warmi. I didn't know Flightaware did that! The information there seems to jive with what the previous owner told me when I bought the plane. Now I have an accurate history. Awesome!]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: Sting Sport Canopy Gap :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-05T22:31:20-04:00 2018-06-05T22:31:20-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5100&p=51889#p51889
JJay wrote:
JJay, I knew the previous owner, Eugene, and even shared a hangar with him at X35 for a while until he bought his C172. Hopefully with the knowledge here on the forum you'll get this sorted out soon.


Hi ShawnM - yes, Eugene is a great guy. Haven't talked to him in months. Glad to hear he got a 172, I knew that's what he was looking for.

Are you still at X35? What do you fly?


Eugene has moved up to the Williston airport with his C172. He has a family he needed more room so he bought a C172 and got his private rating. I visited him a few months ago when I flew up for breakfast at Williston. Great restaurant if you are looking for a place to fly to.

I was only training at X35 like Eugene. I also lived in Gainesville like Eugene. X35 was the closest airport with a sport pilot instructor. I have since moved to Clearwater and I own a 2007 SportCruiser that I keep at KZPH.

Good luck with your canopy.]]>
JJay wrote:
JJay, I knew the previous owner, Eugene, and even shared a hangar with him at X35 for a while until he bought his C172. Hopefully with the knowledge here on the forum you'll get this sorted out soon.


Hi ShawnM - yes, Eugene is a great guy. Haven't talked to him in months. Glad to hear he got a 172, I knew that's what he was looking for.

Are you still at X35? What do you fly?


Eugene has moved up to the Williston airport with his C172. He has a family he needed more room so he bought a C172 and got his private rating. I visited him a few months ago when I flew up for breakfast at Williston. Great restaurant if you are looking for a place to fly to.

I was only training at X35 like Eugene. I also lived in Gainesville like Eugene. X35 was the closest airport with a sport pilot instructor. I have since moved to Clearwater and I own a 2007 SportCruiser that I keep at KZPH.

Good luck with your canopy.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: EGT temp difference :: Author Warmi]]> 2018-06-13T21:55:49-04:00 2018-06-13T21:55:49-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=51997#p51997 Today I happened to enable more detailed view of all 4 EGT temps on my EFIS and to my surprise there was a huge difference between 1/2 and 3/4.
At power settings more than 5100 or so the difference between 1/2 and 3/4 EGTs was around 150+F and growing which , as far as I could find out, it is way to much. When dropping to around 5000-4970 all 4 EGT readings were within 20-30 F , which I believe is normal.

It is very repeatable , as soon as I advance power past 5200, they start instantly diverging and when I pull back all readings all goes back to normal. Everything runs fine - no undue roughness or anything I could complain about , all other temps (CHT, OIL) seem to be normal, except these EGT readings

I had my carbs balanced about 60 hours back, around Sept 2017 or so ..so I guess am about halfway thru to my next annual.
From what I can tell , the most likely culprit in this case would be out of synch carbs .. any other ideas ?

Thanks

Attachments



rpm_4000.jpg (233.03 KiB)



rpm_WOT.jpg (218.99 KiB)


]]>
Today I happened to enable more detailed view of all 4 EGT temps on my EFIS and to my surprise there was a huge difference between 1/2 and 3/4.
At power settings more than 5100 or so the difference between 1/2 and 3/4 EGTs was around 150+F and growing which , as far as I could find out, it is way to much. When dropping to around 5000-4970 all 4 EGT readings were within 20-30 F , which I believe is normal.

It is very repeatable , as soon as I advance power past 5200, they start instantly diverging and when I pull back all readings all goes back to normal. Everything runs fine - no undue roughness or anything I could complain about , all other temps (CHT, OIL) seem to be normal, except these EGT readings

I had my carbs balanced about 60 hours back, around Sept 2017 or so ..so I guess am about halfway thru to my next annual.
From what I can tell , the most likely culprit in this case would be out of synch carbs .. any other ideas ?

Thanks

Attachments



rpm_4000.jpg (233.03 KiB)



rpm_WOT.jpg (218.99 KiB)


]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-06-14T08:26:52-04:00 2018-06-14T08:26:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=51998#p51998 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-14T09:13:41-04:00 2018-06-14T09:13:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=51999#p51999
(1) uneven airflow under the cowling, so the front cylinders and the rear cylinders cool differently (but I would expect this to show up in the CHTs rather than the EGTs)

(2) different exhaust pipe lengths front and back (in my installation, 1 and 2 are long pipes, 3 and 4 are short ones) could have dictated different placement of the EGT probes

(3) EGT probes are miswired to the MFD or EMS, so they don't display in the proper order. (You can test this with a heat gun to the exhast pipes, one at a time, to see which line lengthens)

(4) you misspoke, and it is indeed 1 and 3 that differ from 2 and 4 (in which case, one carb is set richer than the other).

Let us know what you find with further testing.]]>

(1) uneven airflow under the cowling, so the front cylinders and the rear cylinders cool differently (but I would expect this to show up in the CHTs rather than the EGTs)

(2) different exhaust pipe lengths front and back (in my installation, 1 and 2 are long pipes, 3 and 4 are short ones) could have dictated different placement of the EGT probes

(3) EGT probes are miswired to the MFD or EMS, so they don't display in the proper order. (You can test this with a heat gun to the exhast pipes, one at a time, to see which line lengthens)

(4) you misspoke, and it is indeed 1 and 3 that differ from 2 and 4 (in which case, one carb is set richer than the other).

Let us know what you find with further testing.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-14T09:22:00-04:00 2018-06-14T09:22:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52000#p52000 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-06-14T09:31:38-04:00 2018-06-14T09:31:38-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52001#p52001 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-14T09:44:39-04:00 2018-06-14T09:44:39-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52002#p52002
3Dreaming wrote: It is possible that you have a probe going bad.


One probe, yes. Two, on opposite sides? Unlikely.]]>
3Dreaming wrote: It is possible that you have a probe going bad.


One probe, yes. Two, on opposite sides? Unlikely.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-14T10:02:56-04:00 2018-06-14T10:02:56-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52003#p52003 I am wondering if this difference has always been there I just never noticed ...

Interestingly, on the top picture you can see what appear to be yellow peak marks for the 3/4 readouts suggesting that these never went past 1300 F ( not sure if these are peak marks though - my TrueTrak EFIS is no longer being made and the docs I have for it are very sparse )

Will play with it tonight some more ...]]>
I am wondering if this difference has always been there I just never noticed ...

Interestingly, on the top picture you can see what appear to be yellow peak marks for the 3/4 readouts suggesting that these never went past 1300 F ( not sure if these are peak marks though - my TrueTrak EFIS is no longer being made and the docs I have for it are very sparse )

Will play with it tonight some more ...]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-14T10:07:49-04:00 2018-06-14T10:07:49-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52004#p52004
Warmi wrote: I noticed that the front exhaust pipes sensors are located on the pipe bend while the back are not.


Same as my setup (and the basis of my Theory #2).]]>
Warmi wrote: I noticed that the front exhaust pipes sensors are located on the pipe bend while the back are not.


Same as my setup (and the basis of my Theory #2).]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by Wm.Ince]]> 2018-06-14T14:08:32-04:00 2018-06-14T14:08:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52012#p52012
drseti wrote:The RH carb drives cylinders 1 and 3. The left one drives 2 and 4. So if this were a carb synch issue, the odds would be the same, and differ from the evens (which would also match each other). But what you report is a difference between the front two and the back two cylinders. A few theories:

(1) uneven airflow under the cowling, so the front cylinders and the rear cylinders cool differently (but I would expect this to show up in the CHTs rather than the EGTs)

(2) different exhaust pipe lengths front and back (in my installation, 1 and 2 are long pipes, 3 and 4 are short ones) could have dictated different placement of the EGT probes

(3) EGT probes are miswired to the MFD or EMS, so they don't display in the proper order. (You can test this with a heat gun to the exhast pipes, one at a time, to see which line lengthens)

(4) you misspoke, and it is indeed 1 and 3 that differ from 2 and 4 (in which case, one carb is set richer than the other).

Also, the placement of the EGT sensor probes. As per Rotax Installation Manual, "Readings of EGT taken approx. 100 mm (3.93 in) from exhaust flange connections."

If they are appreciably different, at locations along the pipe, it would not be surprising, to find different readings between them.]]>
drseti wrote:The RH carb drives cylinders 1 and 3. The left one drives 2 and 4. So if this were a carb synch issue, the odds would be the same, and differ from the evens (which would also match each other). But what you report is a difference between the front two and the back two cylinders. A few theories:

(1) uneven airflow under the cowling, so the front cylinders and the rear cylinders cool differently (but I would expect this to show up in the CHTs rather than the EGTs)

(2) different exhaust pipe lengths front and back (in my installation, 1 and 2 are long pipes, 3 and 4 are short ones) could have dictated different placement of the EGT probes

(3) EGT probes are miswired to the MFD or EMS, so they don't display in the proper order. (You can test this with a heat gun to the exhast pipes, one at a time, to see which line lengthens)

(4) you misspoke, and it is indeed 1 and 3 that differ from 2 and 4 (in which case, one carb is set richer than the other).

Also, the placement of the EGT sensor probes. As per Rotax Installation Manual, "Readings of EGT taken approx. 100 mm (3.93 in) from exhaust flange connections."

If they are appreciably different, at locations along the pipe, it would not be surprising, to find different readings between them.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-14T21:19:54-04:00 2018-06-14T21:19:54-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52013#p52013 The back pipes are significantly longer as well but the placement of EGT probes seem to be according to Rotax specs - of course the front ones are placed on the bent - I am not sure if it affects their temperature.

The only other thing I can think of is that recently I took off the cabin heater muff which is located right behind back cylinders and blocks large portion of the radiator - it is recommended to take it off for the summer ops to improve cooling.

Everything else , CHT and Oil are perfectly within specs and the engine runs fine - I will be syncing carbs soon and will have mechanic take a closer look at this and see if he can spot anything.]]>
The back pipes are significantly longer as well but the placement of EGT probes seem to be according to Rotax specs - of course the front ones are placed on the bent - I am not sure if it affects their temperature.

The only other thing I can think of is that recently I took off the cabin heater muff which is located right behind back cylinders and blocks large portion of the radiator - it is recommended to take it off for the summer ops to improve cooling.

Everything else , CHT and Oil are perfectly within specs and the engine runs fine - I will be syncing carbs soon and will have mechanic take a closer look at this and see if he can spot anything.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-15T08:03:37-04:00 2018-06-15T08:03:37-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52014#p52014
My 2007 Rotax only has two EGT’s and I have one probe on #2 (front) and one probe on #3 (rear). I understand that Rotax now only recommends measures the rear EGT (3&4) when only two EGTs are installed. I want to move my front probe to the rear but you know what they say, “if it ain’t broke.......”.

Let us know if the carb sync changes anything.]]>

My 2007 Rotax only has two EGT’s and I have one probe on #2 (front) and one probe on #3 (rear). I understand that Rotax now only recommends measures the rear EGT (3&4) when only two EGTs are installed. I want to move my front probe to the rear but you know what they say, “if it ain’t broke.......”.

Let us know if the carb sync changes anything.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-15T08:28:10-04:00 2018-06-15T08:28:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52015#p52015
Unfortunately my EFIS does not record any engine parameters for permanent storage so I can't really tell if this is a new development or it has been like that since I bought the plane last year. Over last year I did occasionally enable the detailed view with all 4 EGTs but that was mostly just a quick look at these values during stable cruise and at 5100-5200 where both readings tend to be within 100 F of each other. It is during full power application (takeoff , climb ) and ( interestingly ) during descent on idle that they diverge - when idle on the ground or when in stable cruise at around 5200 , both sets stay close to each other.

PS.
Shawn.
Is your front EGT probe attached at the pipe bent ? Cause I am starting to think that the difference between front and back sets is related to their different shape.]]>

Unfortunately my EFIS does not record any engine parameters for permanent storage so I can't really tell if this is a new development or it has been like that since I bought the plane last year. Over last year I did occasionally enable the detailed view with all 4 EGTs but that was mostly just a quick look at these values during stable cruise and at 5100-5200 where both readings tend to be within 100 F of each other. It is during full power application (takeoff , climb ) and ( interestingly ) during descent on idle that they diverge - when idle on the ground or when in stable cruise at around 5200 , both sets stay close to each other.

PS.
Shawn.
Is your front EGT probe attached at the pipe bent ? Cause I am starting to think that the difference between front and back sets is related to their different shape.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-06-15T08:59:47-04:00 2018-06-15T08:59:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52016#p52016 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-15T09:15:32-04:00 2018-06-15T09:15:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52017#p52017 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-06-15T19:39:33-04:00 2018-06-15T19:39:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52019#p52019 This said it can still come from other sources like plugs and plug gaps and these aren't the only two items.]]> This said it can still come from other sources like plugs and plug gaps and these aren't the only two items.]]> <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-15T22:54:59-04:00 2018-06-15T22:54:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52020#p52020
Warmi wrote:Shawn.
Is your front EGT probe attached at the pipe bent ? Cause I am starting to think that the difference between front and back sets is related to their different shape.


Yes, it’s right on that bend. Ironically I’ve experienced just the opposite that you do. If I decrease power my EGTs split and if I increase power then join up again. Again, the same issue but the other way around.]]>
Warmi wrote:Shawn.
Is your front EGT probe attached at the pipe bent ? Cause I am starting to think that the difference between front and back sets is related to their different shape.


Yes, it’s right on that bend. Ironically I’ve experienced just the opposite that you do. If I decrease power my EGTs split and if I increase power then join up again. Again, the same issue but the other way around.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-16T00:12:59-04:00 2018-06-16T00:12:59-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52021#p52021 Anyway, I will keep watching it and I am taking the plane for routine maintenance next week ( + ADSB install etc ) and will try to confirm if this is a real issue or not ...]]> Anyway, I will keep watching it and I am taking the plane for routine maintenance next week ( + ADSB install etc ) and will try to confirm if this is a real issue or not ...]]> <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-16T09:19:58-04:00 2018-06-16T09:19:58-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52022#p52022
Good luck with the maintenance and finally your ADS-B install. Please report back if you find any issues and also add a post in the ADS-B topic as to your install and your thoughts. Very interested to her about it.]]>

Good luck with the maintenance and finally your ADS-B install. Please report back if you find any issues and also add a post in the ADS-B topic as to your install and your thoughts. Very interested to her about it.]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-16T18:20:47-04:00 2018-06-16T18:20:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52027#p52027
After consulting with the Rotax gurus over at Lockwood Aviation (and they in turn consulted with Rotax technical support), we learned that of all the things one can glean from EGTs, the one that is most useful on the 912 is the ability to detect carbs out of sync. This requires only one EGT per bank. Additionally, on the 912, you can often see quite very different EGTs between the front and the rear pairs - as much as a few hundred degrees. This is inherent in the operation of the engine, and Rotax has seen people confused by the behavior when all four are monitored. In fact, measuring EGT isn't a requirement on the 912 per Rotax spec.

I am gonna try to ping Leading Edge Air Foils folks here close by in Wisconsin and see what's their opinion on this.
Anyway, I am going off on Wednesay for various engine and other maintenance + ADSB install and some other minor avionics work to these guys :
http://www.midwestskysports.com/

I will ask them about this issue as well and will let you know ...]]>

After consulting with the Rotax gurus over at Lockwood Aviation (and they in turn consulted with Rotax technical support), we learned that of all the things one can glean from EGTs, the one that is most useful on the 912 is the ability to detect carbs out of sync. This requires only one EGT per bank. Additionally, on the 912, you can often see quite very different EGTs between the front and the rear pairs - as much as a few hundred degrees. This is inherent in the operation of the engine, and Rotax has seen people confused by the behavior when all four are monitored. In fact, measuring EGT isn't a requirement on the 912 per Rotax spec.

I am gonna try to ping Leading Edge Air Foils folks here close by in Wisconsin and see what's their opinion on this.
Anyway, I am going off on Wednesay for various engine and other maintenance + ADSB install and some other minor avionics work to these guys :
http://www.midwestskysports.com/

I will ask them about this issue as well and will let you know ...]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by RV12Heal]]> 2018-06-17T10:43:47-04:00 2018-06-17T10:43:47-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52028#p52028
This was a quote from Dynon technical support staff regarding installing only 2 EGT probes with their D120 equipment ...

After consulting with the Rotax gurus over at Lockwood Aviation (and they in turn consulted with Rotax technical support), we learned that of all the things one can glean from EGTs, the one that is most useful on the 912 is the ability to detect carbs out of sync. This requires only one EGT per bank. Additionally, on the 912, you can often see quite very different EGTs between the front and the rear pairs - as much as a few hundred degrees. This is inherent in the operation of the engine, and Rotax has seen people confused by the behavior when all four are monitored. In fact, measuring EGT isn't a requirement on the 912 per Rotax spec.


I found the above quote to be very interesting. What on-ground or in-flight EGT indications should one be looking for to evaluate whether the carbs are in sync or out of sync? Linearity? Peaking??]]>
This was a quote from Dynon technical support staff regarding installing only 2 EGT probes with their D120 equipment ...

After consulting with the Rotax gurus over at Lockwood Aviation (and they in turn consulted with Rotax technical support), we learned that of all the things one can glean from EGTs, the one that is most useful on the 912 is the ability to detect carbs out of sync. This requires only one EGT per bank. Additionally, on the 912, you can often see quite very different EGTs between the front and the rear pairs - as much as a few hundred degrees. This is inherent in the operation of the engine, and Rotax has seen people confused by the behavior when all four are monitored. In fact, measuring EGT isn't a requirement on the 912 per Rotax spec.


I found the above quote to be very interesting. What on-ground or in-flight EGT indications should one be looking for to evaluate whether the carbs are in sync or out of sync? Linearity? Peaking??]]>
<![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by roger lee]]> 2018-06-17T13:20:03-04:00 2018-06-17T13:20:03-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52030#p52030 <![CDATA[Ask The Mechanic :: Re: EGT temp difference :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-17T15:07:24-04:00 2018-06-17T15:07:24-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5113&p=52032#p52032
Quoted from the Dynon D-120 install manual:

ROTAX ENGINES
For Rotax 912 engines, only two of the four cylinders are typically monitored for EGT. Unlike the CHT probes which are mounted on diagonal cylinders, the EGT probes should be mounted on the two rear cylinders’ exhaust manifolds. It is critical that the EGT probes be mounted to parallel cylinders’ exhaust manifolds for proper temperature comparison.


I also read elsewhere that the rear cylinders can run up to 150 degrees hotter than the front two cylinders. Seems to make sense to monitor to two hottest EGT's on the hottest cylinders.

Of course as Roger stated they can all vary depending on RPM settings and whether you are on the ground or in the air. I have never seen any high readings on the ground ever and would never compare on the ground temps with in the air temps. I'm more concerned with temps while flying.

I guess another summer project will be moving the front EGT probe to the rear (so they both are in the rear and on parallel cylinders per Dynon) and welding up the hole in the front exhaust.]]>

Quoted from the Dynon D-120 install manual:

ROTAX ENGINES
For Rotax 912 engines, only two of the four cylinders are typically monitored for EGT. Unlike the CHT probes which are mounted on diagonal cylinders, the EGT probes should be mounted on the two rear cylinders’ exhaust manifolds. It is critical that the EGT probes be mounted to parallel cylinders’ exhaust manifolds for proper temperature comparison.


I also read elsewhere that the rear cylinders can run up to 150 degrees hotter than the front two cylinders. Seems to make sense to monitor to two hottest EGT's on the hottest cylinders.

Of course as Roger stated they can all vary depending on RPM settings and whether you are on the ground or in the air. I have never seen any high readings on the ground ever and would never compare on the ground temps with in the air temps. I'm more concerned with temps while flying.

I guess another summer project will be moving the front EGT probe to the rear (so they both are in the rear and on parallel cylinders per Dynon) and welding up the hole in the front exhaust.]]>
<![CDATA[Fly-Ins & $100 Hamburgers :: Re: Liberty Aviation Museum and lake erie islands :: Reply by putinbay]]> 2018-05-23T13:34:54-04:00 2018-05-23T13:34:54-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3884&p=51689#p51689 http://www.visitputinbay.org we invite you and your fellow pilots to fly in for a visit.

Our little 2.5 mile by 4-mile island offers quite a bit to do from caves, winery tours, watersports to some of the best Lake Erie Walleye fishing you will find anywhere! We have some of the best restaurants in the area and several hotels and resorts on the island should you choose to stay overnight. Our other web based resource for the island is http://www.ohio-put-in-bay.com and between these sites, you should be able to find everything you need to know about the island.

One thing the original poster did not mention is that there is no fuel available at the Put-in-Bay airport and that takeoffs and landings are only permitted from sunrise to sunset as our runway is not lit.]]>
http://www.visitputinbay.org we invite you and your fellow pilots to fly in for a visit.

Our little 2.5 mile by 4-mile island offers quite a bit to do from caves, winery tours, watersports to some of the best Lake Erie Walleye fishing you will find anywhere! We have some of the best restaurants in the area and several hotels and resorts on the island should you choose to stay overnight. Our other web based resource for the island is http://www.ohio-put-in-bay.com and between these sites, you should be able to find everything you need to know about the island.

One thing the original poster did not mention is that there is no fuel available at the Put-in-Bay airport and that takeoffs and landings are only permitted from sunrise to sunset as our runway is not lit.]]>
<![CDATA[Fly-Ins & $100 Hamburgers :: Re: Liberty Aviation Museum and lake erie islands :: Reply by foresterpoole]]> 2018-05-28T18:02:29-04:00 2018-05-28T18:02:29-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3884&p=51739#p51739
If your in the area and have some time the Crawford auto and aviation museum in Cleveland is worth the trip, it's more classic cars, but there is a section dedicated to the Cleveland Air Races with a few origional aircraft. Also in Akron is the MAPS Air Museum, it's not bad and is located at KCAK, it's on the field so at one point I thought you could taxi to it if you landed there (it's towered so you'd need a sign off for sport pilots).]]>

If your in the area and have some time the Crawford auto and aviation museum in Cleveland is worth the trip, it's more classic cars, but there is a section dedicated to the Cleveland Air Races with a few origional aircraft. Also in Akron is the MAPS Air Museum, it's not bad and is located at KCAK, it's on the field so at one point I thought you could taxi to it if you landed there (it's towered so you'd need a sign off for sport pilots).]]>
<![CDATA[Fly-Ins & $100 Hamburgers :: Coffee at Copperhill :: Author hirschr]]> 2018-06-08T11:22:10-04:00 2018-06-08T11:22:10-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5104&p=51937#p51937 <![CDATA[Fly-Ins & $100 Hamburgers :: Re: Coffee at Copperhill :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-08T12:22:45-04:00 2018-06-08T12:22:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5104&p=51939#p51939
It’s right after our monthly EAA meeting.

We’re not making a big deal of it - just a chance for local pilots to get together and chat.

Looking forward to seeing you.]]>

It’s right after our monthly EAA meeting.

We’re not making a big deal of it - just a chance for local pilots to get together and chat.

Looking forward to seeing you.]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-23T08:29:05-04:00 2018-05-23T08:29:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51687#p51687
The rest of the custom side windows arrived and got installed:

Image

Opens up the upstairs "office" (windows overlooking the runway delivered but not yet installed):

Image

Upstairs bedroom window installed and siding finished on two sides:

Image

Image

Insulation install ongoing.

Bit of a delay getting the electric for the septic pump approved, before they can do a final inspection of the septic and drain field to close them up.

Baby steps...]]>

The rest of the custom side windows arrived and got installed:

Image

Opens up the upstairs "office" (windows overlooking the runway delivered but not yet installed):

Image

Upstairs bedroom window installed and siding finished on two sides:

Image

Image

Insulation install ongoing.

Bit of a delay getting the electric for the septic pump approved, before they can do a final inspection of the septic and drain field to close them up.

Baby steps...]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-24T16:58:00-04:00 2018-05-24T16:58:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51696#p51696
Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:]]>

Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-24T17:00:06-04:00 2018-05-24T17:00:06-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51697#p51697
ShawnM wrote:Looking great Eddie, it's coming along nicely.

Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:


Or a Bass Pro Shops!]]>
ShawnM wrote:Looking great Eddie, it's coming along nicely.

Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:


Or a Bass Pro Shops!]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-24T17:07:44-04:00 2018-05-24T17:07:44-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51698#p51698
FastEddieB wrote:
ShawnM wrote:Looking great Eddie, it's coming along nicely.

Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:


Or a Bass Pro Shops!


The Bass Pro Shops look a bit "rustic" to me, the Bob Evans are red with a tin roof just like your home. :mrgreen:

Keep up the great work.]]>
FastEddieB wrote:
ShawnM wrote:Looking great Eddie, it's coming along nicely.

Everytime I see it I think you're building a Bob Evans and not your house. :mrgreen:


Or a Bass Pro Shops!


The Bass Pro Shops look a bit "rustic" to me, the Bob Evans are red with a tin roof just like your home. :mrgreen:

Keep up the great work.]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by MrMorden]]> 2018-05-25T10:51:21-04:00 2018-05-25T10:51:21-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51699#p51699 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-25T11:47:08-04:00 2018-05-25T11:47:08-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51700#p51700
MrMorden wrote:Eddie's fooling us all, it's actually going to be the next Mega Church, submit your name for it now!


"Wings Over Jesus"

Fly in and get "healed" today. Don't forget your checkbook. :shock:

I rather it be a Bob Evans so there is a restaurant on the field. Who doesn't love a good restaurant on an airport? :mrgreen:]]>
MrMorden wrote:Eddie's fooling us all, it's actually going to be the next Mega Church, submit your name for it now!


"Wings Over Jesus"

Fly in and get "healed" today. Don't forget your checkbook. :shock:

I rather it be a Bob Evans so there is a restaurant on the field. Who doesn't love a good restaurant on an airport? :mrgreen:]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-25T12:02:25-04:00 2018-05-25T12:02:25-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51701#p51701

eddie's digs.jpg


Sorry Eddie, I couldn't resist. A Bob Evans or not I'm still jealous of your beautiful airport home.

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eddie's digs.jpg (79.38 KiB)


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eddie's digs.jpg


Sorry Eddie, I couldn't resist. A Bob Evans or not I'm still jealous of your beautiful airport home.

Attachments



eddie's digs.jpg (79.38 KiB)


]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-25T12:42:32-04:00 2018-05-25T12:42:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51702#p51702
MrMorden wrote:Eddie's fooling us all, it's actually going to be the next Mega Church, submit your name for it now!


You nailed it.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I’m already an ordained Pastafarian Minister:

Image

But all will be welcome!]]>
MrMorden wrote:Eddie's fooling us all, it's actually going to be the next Mega Church, submit your name for it now!


You nailed it.

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I’m already an ordained Pastafarian Minister:

Image

But all will be welcome!]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-29T09:39:46-04:00 2018-05-29T09:39:46-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51745#p51745
I was surprised that a crew was working on Memorial Day. Among other things they installed the upstairs office windows and the downstairs sliding glass door.

But as soon as I saw the photos, I thought, "YIKES!"

Image

Image


Something's going to have to be done - the misalignment of the custom window and the 3-panel window would bug me forever, and the contractor agreed and apologized.

It's the 3-panel window that can be moved before the siding goes up - probably tomorrow.

I'm thinking the options are (all relative to the exterior view):

1) Center the window so both ends of the custom window overhang equally. We could even add faux "shutters" to make things line up.

2) Line up with the left side and not worry about the pointy end overhanging a bit.

3) Line up with the right pointy end and accept the overhang on the left.

If anyone is bored and has mad Photoshop skilz to help me visualize, that would be great.

Aesthetically, what do you guys think? I need to let the contractor know by morning.

Oh, and I also sent him this:

Image]]>

I was surprised that a crew was working on Memorial Day. Among other things they installed the upstairs office windows and the downstairs sliding glass door.

But as soon as I saw the photos, I thought, "YIKES!"

Image

Image


Something's going to have to be done - the misalignment of the custom window and the 3-panel window would bug me forever, and the contractor agreed and apologized.

It's the 3-panel window that can be moved before the siding goes up - probably tomorrow.

I'm thinking the options are (all relative to the exterior view):

1) Center the window so both ends of the custom window overhang equally. We could even add faux "shutters" to make things line up.

2) Line up with the left side and not worry about the pointy end overhanging a bit.

3) Line up with the right pointy end and accept the overhang on the left.

If anyone is bored and has mad Photoshop skilz to help me visualize, that would be great.

Aesthetically, what do you guys think? I need to let the contractor know by morning.

Oh, and I also sent him this:

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by 3Dreaming]]> 2018-05-29T09:47:00-04:00 2018-05-29T09:47:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51746#p51746 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-29T09:49:00-04:00 2018-05-29T09:49:00-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51747#p51747 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-29T09:51:41-04:00 2018-05-29T09:51:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51748#p51748
3Dreaming wrote:An old instructor told me she had a plane at one time that had a placard on the panel


My favorite panel placard (also on a fellow flight instructor's plane) said "if you care to smoke, please step outside."]]>
3Dreaming wrote:An old instructor told me she had a plane at one time that had a placard on the panel


My favorite panel placard (also on a fellow flight instructor's plane) said "if you care to smoke, please step outside."]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-29T09:53:12-04:00 2018-05-29T09:53:12-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51749#p51749
drseti wrote:I would favor lining up the rectangular windows with the long edge of the tringle (I believe that's option 2). The pointy end would then appear to be poised for takeoff.


That's a thought.

After a literal cut and paste, albeit with no paste...

The windows centered:

Image

With trim or shutter panels:

Image

I'll try it your way as well.

This is what you get when you work without plans!]]>
drseti wrote:I would favor lining up the rectangular windows with the long edge of the tringle (I believe that's option 2). The pointy end would then appear to be poised for takeoff.


That's a thought.

After a literal cut and paste, albeit with no paste...

The windows centered:

Image

With trim or shutter panels:

Image

I'll try it your way as well.

This is what you get when you work without plans!]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-29T09:58:07-04:00 2018-05-29T09:58:07-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51751#p51751 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-29T09:58:31-04:00 2018-05-29T09:58:31-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51752#p51752
Image]]>

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-05-29T10:03:05-04:00 2018-05-29T10:03:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51753#p51753 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by chicagorandy]]> 2018-05-29T10:08:24-04:00 2018-05-29T10:08:24-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51755#p51755 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-29T11:01:33-04:00 2018-05-29T11:01:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51756#p51756 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-29T11:54:19-04:00 2018-05-29T11:54:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51759#p51759
TimTaylor wrote:I would center the big windows over the door and get rid of the triangle window.


Well, that window is about our only concession to a custom look, and I like how it adds airiness to the upstairs office.

So, we’re keeping it and will minimize the mismatch as best we can.]]>
TimTaylor wrote:I would center the big windows over the door and get rid of the triangle window.


Well, that window is about our only concession to a custom look, and I like how it adds airiness to the upstairs office.

So, we’re keeping it and will minimize the mismatch as best we can.]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-29T14:13:41-04:00 2018-05-29T14:13:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51762#p51762
41515357615_5926612a75_z.jpg

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41515357615_5926612a75_z.jpg (212.54 KiB)


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41515357615_5926612a75_z.jpg

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41515357615_5926612a75_z.jpg (212.54 KiB)


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<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-29T14:40:22-04:00 2018-05-29T14:40:22-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51763#p51763 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-29T15:04:05-04:00 2018-05-29T15:04:05-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51764#p51764
TimTaylor wrote:That looks good.


Agreed.

Thanks, Shawn!]]>
TimTaylor wrote:That looks good.


Agreed.

Thanks, Shawn!]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-29T15:26:09-04:00 2018-05-29T15:26:09-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51765#p51765
FastEddieB wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:That looks good.


Agreed.

Thanks, Shawn!


Glad to help. :D]]>
FastEddieB wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:That looks good.


Agreed.

Thanks, Shawn!


Glad to help. :D]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-29T17:30:18-04:00 2018-05-29T17:30:18-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51768#p51768
Image]]>

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-05-29T17:36:33-04:00 2018-05-29T17:36:33-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51769#p51769 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-05-29T19:06:19-04:00 2018-05-29T19:06:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51773#p51773 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-05-29T20:34:17-04:00 2018-05-29T20:34:17-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51774#p51774
ShawnM wrote:You didn't say you wanted me to photoshop in a construction worker. :mrgreen:


I’m sure you would have done a fabulous job!]]>
ShawnM wrote:You didn't say you wanted me to photoshop in a construction worker. :mrgreen:


I’m sure you would have done a fabulous job!]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-03T07:25:19-04:00 2018-06-03T07:25:19-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51832#p51832
Image

Image]]>

Image

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-03T08:07:22-04:00 2018-06-03T08:07:22-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51834#p51834 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-03T13:15:18-04:00 2018-06-03T13:15:18-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51847#p51847 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-08T20:53:31-04:00 2018-06-08T20:53:31-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51945#p51945
TimTaylor wrote:Looks great. House looks OK also.


I agree!

Garage door is in:

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Image

Done with the framing for the garage ceiling:

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One minor hitch: In spite the “perc test” showing an area suitable for a drain field, once dug one of three trenches did not drain properly due to underlying rock. Easiest thing to do was to just scale our building permit back from 3 bedrooms to 2. We did pass the final septic inspection with that change. We had only intended 2 rooms as bedrooms anyway, so no big loss.

Karen’s up there now and they started working on our carport:

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TimTaylor wrote:Looks great. House looks OK also.


I agree!

Garage door is in:

Image

Image

Done with the framing for the garage ceiling:

Image

One minor hitch: In spite the “perc test” showing an area suitable for a drain field, once dug one of three trenches did not drain properly due to underlying rock. Easiest thing to do was to just scale our building permit back from 3 bedrooms to 2. We did pass the final septic inspection with that change. We had only intended 2 rooms as bedrooms anyway, so no big loss.

Karen’s up there now and they started working on our carport:

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-06-08T23:35:45-04:00 2018-06-08T23:35:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51946#p51946
Great planning and execution.]]>

Great planning and execution.]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-09T21:04:12-04:00 2018-06-09T21:04:12-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51947#p51947 somebody had a plan!

And, of course Karen is painting the doghouse to match!

Image]]>
somebody had a plan!

And, of course Karen is painting the doghouse to match!

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by RTK]]> 2018-06-10T00:17:41-04:00 2018-06-10T00:17:41-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51948#p51948 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-10T12:08:54-04:00 2018-06-10T12:08:54-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51949#p51949
FastEddieB wrote:And, of course Karen is painting the doghouse to match!


I'm glad to know you'll have a matching place to stay when you cross the boss.]]>
FastEddieB wrote:And, of course Karen is painting the doghouse to match!


I'm glad to know you'll have a matching place to stay when you cross the boss.]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-10T16:13:13-04:00 2018-06-10T16:13:13-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51952#p51952
drseti wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:And, of course Karen is painting the doghouse to match!


I'm glad to know you'll have a matching place to stay when you cross the boss.


Well, that would be less draconian then what happened to me last time!

Image]]>
drseti wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:And, of course Karen is painting the doghouse to match!


I'm glad to know you'll have a matching place to stay when you cross the boss.


Well, that would be less draconian then what happened to me last time!

Image]]>
<![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-10T16:26:12-04:00 2018-06-10T16:26:12-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51953#p51953 <![CDATA[Eye Candy :: Re: Pole Barn progress! :: Reply by ShawnM]]> 2018-06-10T17:30:26-04:00 2018-06-10T17:30:26-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5027&p=51955#p51955 ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Author FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-03T07:56:09-04:00 2018-06-03T07:56:09-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51833#p51833
I stumbled across this last night:

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Nice plane when I owned it, but know nothing of its last 40+ years of history.

Obviously not Light Sport, but an option for those who might qualify for BasicMed.]]>

I stumbled across this last night:

Image

Nice plane when I owned it, but know nothing of its last 40+ years of history.

Obviously not Light Sport, but an option for those who might qualify for BasicMed.]]>
<![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-03T08:54:49-04:00 2018-06-03T08:54:49-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51835#p51835 <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-03T09:54:52-04:00 2018-06-03T09:54:52-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51839#p51839
Warmi wrote:That plane is older than me .... it seems like it would be a money pit to maintain such old, certified plane.


Not necessarily. If well maintained, should not be a major headache to keep up.

But even if maintenance were higher, compare it to a new CTLSi, for example, at $162,000. The $140,000 price delta could pay for a LOT of maintenance and upgrades!]]>
Warmi wrote:That plane is older than me .... it seems like it would be a money pit to maintain such old, certified plane.


Not necessarily. If well maintained, should not be a major headache to keep up.

But even if maintenance were higher, compare it to a new CTLSi, for example, at $162,000. The $140,000 price delta could pay for a LOT of maintenance and upgrades!]]>
<![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-03T10:06:45-04:00 2018-06-03T10:06:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51840#p51840 <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by drseti]]> 2018-06-03T11:30:45-04:00 2018-06-03T11:30:45-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51842#p51842 <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by chicagorandy]]> 2018-06-03T12:45:13-04:00 2018-06-03T12:45:13-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51843#p51843 <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-03T12:50:32-04:00 2018-06-03T12:50:32-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51844#p51844
drseti wrote:I'm especially impressed by the automatic transmission. Did it have that when you owned it, Eddie, or was that an STCd mod?


I thought of it more as an unlimited slip air transmission!]]>
drseti wrote:I'm especially impressed by the automatic transmission. Did it have that when you owned it, Eddie, or was that an STCd mod?


I thought of it more as an unlimited slip air transmission!]]>
<![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-03T13:03:24-04:00 2018-06-03T13:03:24-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51845#p51845 <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-03T13:51:42-04:00 2018-06-03T13:51:42-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51849#p51849
It is not prejudice , it is preference and it is really a personal thing .]]>

It is not prejudice , it is preference and it is really a personal thing .]]>
<![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-03T13:56:53-04:00 2018-06-03T13:56:53-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51850#p51850
Warmi wrote:That plane is older than me .... it seems like it would be a money pit to maintain such old, certified plane.
You are wrong. A well maintained airplane is not like an old car sitting on blocks in your backyard. Also, aerodynamics has not changed much since Orville and Wilbur. There are few, if any, advances in the newest LSA vs aircraft produced 60 years ago. Glass panels are simply another way to present the same information except for GPS. GPS is available on your phone. Just because we all have a preference, we don't need to criticize the alternatives, especially if we have little or no experience with the alternative. That is what's wrong with this country now.

Cecil Koupal was a poster here for a while who did nothing but criticize any airplane that was not his CTLSi. He was another new pilot who had never flown anything else. Now, he owns a Cirrus and criticizes everything that's not his Cirrus.]]>
Warmi wrote:That plane is older than me .... it seems like it would be a money pit to maintain such old, certified plane.
You are wrong. A well maintained airplane is not like an old car sitting on blocks in your backyard. Also, aerodynamics has not changed much since Orville and Wilbur. There are few, if any, advances in the newest LSA vs aircraft produced 60 years ago. Glass panels are simply another way to present the same information except for GPS. GPS is available on your phone. Just because we all have a preference, we don't need to criticize the alternatives, especially if we have little or no experience with the alternative. That is what's wrong with this country now.

Cecil Koupal was a poster here for a while who did nothing but criticize any airplane that was not his CTLSi. He was another new pilot who had never flown anything else. Now, he owns a Cirrus and criticizes everything that's not his Cirrus.]]>
<![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by Warmi]]> 2018-06-03T14:16:22-04:00 2018-06-03T14:16:22-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51851#p51851 Let it go cause people will have their preferences and if you ever wonder why threads involving you often end in ugliness is because you won’t let it go- it is as simple as that.]]> Let it go cause people will have their preferences and if you ever wonder why threads involving you often end in ugliness is because you won’t let it go- it is as simple as that.]]> <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by TimTaylor]]> 2018-06-03T14:19:13-04:00 2018-06-03T14:19:13-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51852#p51852 <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by Scooper]]> 2018-06-08T19:51:18-04:00 2018-06-08T19:51:18-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51943#p51943
Now that I have BasicMed I'd buy it back from him, but I've been spoiled by the low operating cost of my Zodiac (low fuel consumption and I can do my own maintenance and condition inspections).

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Now that I have BasicMed I'd buy it back from him, but I've been spoiled by the low operating cost of my Zodiac (low fuel consumption and I can do my own maintenance and condition inspections).

Image

Image]]>
<![CDATA[The Want Ads :: Re: Own a piece of aviation history! :: Reply by FastEddieB]]> 2018-06-08T20:49:36-04:00 2018-06-08T20:49:36-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5099&p=51944#p51944 <![CDATA[The Want Ads :: New Dynon avionics :: Author vtails]]> 2018-06-17T11:10:28-04:00 2018-06-17T11:10:28-04:00 http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5117&p=52029#p52029 http://www.dynonstore.com

Dynon avionics are a true owner/installer product. The plug & play design makes your install much simpler and a whole lot less expensive and worry-free than similar products available. Dynon is known for their professional and attentive tech support and service after the sale. Should the need arise Dynon tech support helps the owner/installer complete their project with as little inconvenience as possible. Their installation manual is straightforward and easy to understand, unlike some others.

We are listed on the "dealers" page on the Dynon website as Light Sport USA.

The ADSB 472 back orders are caught up and now available for new shipments.

Light Sport USA,
Sisters, Oregon

http://www.lightsportusa.com]]>
http://www.dynonstore.com

Dynon avionics are a true owner/installer product. The plug & play design makes your install much simpler and a whole lot less expensive and worry-free than similar products available. Dynon is known for their professional and attentive tech support and service after the sale. Should the need arise Dynon tech support helps the owner/installer complete their project with as little inconvenience as possible. Their installation manual is straightforward and easy to understand, unlike some others.

We are listed on the "dealers" page on the Dynon website as Light Sport USA.

The ADSB 472 back orders are caught up and now available for new shipments.

Light Sport USA,
Sisters, Oregon

http://www.lightsportusa.com]]>